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For my part, I think some confusion could have been avoided if the initial note after Baralbus went invisible had listed his condition as hidden - rather than noting "invisible, prone?" which made me feel like there was no sense of him. That's why I chose an action that I suspected would lead to bumping into him.
I should have asked since I was unclear on it, I thought I'd take my best guess and go from there rather than slowing things down. I would have chosen a different action if I knew we already had Baralbus at hidden. It's fine, we can keep it moving from this. Next time I encounter an invisible enemy, I'll have a clearer idea what's going on without having to ask, or at least a better idea of what to ask.
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I'm just trying to get a better idea of how the various conditions like undetected and hidden work, as I'm relatively new to 2nd edition and have not had much occasion to observe them in action.
I am having eye surgery Wednesday and will be unable to post for a few days after while recovering. 'Bot Emil if needed to keep things moving.
If he can detect Baralbus he will try to trip him again. Emil would prefer not to kill either of the people if not necessary. If anyone is wounded and near death, he would use a heal spell.
I suppose you could use Point Out for the Hidden target, but it would only reveal him as Hidden and be a waste of an action.
I am on a family trip this weekend starting tomorrow and posting will be light if at all. Feel free to bot Magnus as needed till Monday.
Can't recall but does PFS allow Magnus to copy from that spellbook?
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Can't recall but does PFS allow Magnus to copy from that spellbook?
You don't need a spellbook from an adventure to learn new spells for your spellbook. The rationale is that the PFS has resources you can use to learn new spells, such as spellbooks or PFS members who know spells. It just requires a successful skill roll using the skill associated with your magic tradition and a cost based on the level of the spell.
See the Learn a Spell action.
I would pick the spells you want and make the spell rolls here in the discussion thread at the end of the adventure as a downtime activity. Since it's just an hour per spell, you can attempt as many as you can pay for.
If you fail a roll for a particular spell, you can't attempt to learn that again until you level up. On a crit fail, you also pay half the cost.
Can't recall but does PFS allow Magnus to copy from that spellbook?You don't need a spellbook from an adventure to learn new spells for your spellbook. The rationale is that the PFS has resources you can use to learn new spells, such as spellbooks or PFS members who know spells. It just requires a successful skill roll using the skill associated with your magic tradition and a cost based on the level of the spell.
See the Learn a Spell action.
I would pick the spells you want and make the spell rolls here in the discussion thread at the end of the adventure as a downtime activity. Since it's just an hour per spell, you can attempt as many as you can pay for.
If you fail a roll for a particular spell, you can't attempt to learn that again until you level up. On a crit fail, you also pay half the cost.
Thanks for the explanation. Never really considered Learn a Spell during downtime without exposure to it during a scenario. First PFS wizard I suppose. Will be doing so on an annoying regular basis now...
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@ Alenor: Hope you feel better soon.
Seconded!
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On the current topic in IC Gameplay of what to do next, I will weigh in here because there's stuff I'm not sure about as a player and I don't want to feed inaccurate info into the discussion there when Modra the dwarf, who has had this play out over three days, would have a clearer idea of where things stand.
I had the impression from earlier (possibly mistaken) that we're going to need to have our group overnight in the sewers, including the escapees, to be at Shard Cove when the dawn/first bell block begins. If that is the case, I don't think overnighting in the warehouse, as Emil suggested, would work. If I am mistaken, we could push seeing if Themolin shows up to the curfew hour with the knowledge we can get the right people where we want them to be in the morning.
If we are able to locate Themolin in time for a Shard Cove departure, we can rustle up him, Kallade, and Yuleg, Vurna, and Flitch for the first escape group. That would be our five person limit there. Yuleg will have to suck it up that we can't finagle separating Flitch and Vurna on different boats. The two people most likely to be recognized at the docks (Kallade by another guard, Themolin perhaps just because he's director of something important) thus escape without having to have a disguise scrutinized. If we don't find Themolin, then it's probably just going to be four people on that first escape... unless we wanted to do the Tafferly family and Kallade.
Assumption: There's no way to get Seddothrum through the sewers to this first boat. Possibly also mistaken. Could/would he crawl? I'm not sure we ever settled on a clear feeling about whether extra effort will be involved for getting him on any boat at all. With the five person limit for the Shard Cove group, my assumption is that Seddothrum would take up more than one space since he is large and weighs a lot. I haven't asked about this assumption before now since I was also assuming he can't get through the sewers.
I feel we/I may have been overthinking the logistical challenge of having Seddothrum leave with us on our own ship - that is probably less about "fit him on the boat" (which presumably is equipped to handle some cargo weight) than it is "convince the guards we are allowed to leave with this stone giant"/"convince the guards this is just a weird boulder we're allowed to leave with." A secondary challenge of convincing the professor not to freak out that we intend to take him with us. We never got her feelings on the matter but just what filtered through Seddothrum was quite negative. Possibly I have been overthinking a number of things through this scenario.
Can we get Themolin to Shard Cove now? Or is it too late in the day?
Can we get Themolin to Shard Cove now? Or is it too late in the day?
You could. Note, the party was told that the ship will arrive at dawn and that it will take a total of five passengers. If you wish to depart for Shard Cove right away, waiting out the rest of the day in the sewers or at the Cove, I am fine with that.
The party does not currently have any working rafts, but that is not necessarily an issue as the party/clients could simply try to swim out to the ship. Alternatively, the party could try and purchase some watercraft.
If you wish to get word to four other passengers to meet you in the sewers and go to the Cove with you, I am fine with that as well (assuming the party has no other major preparations it wishes to do before then).
If that is the plan, let me know which 5 passengers (Themolin + 4 others) you wish to take.
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Was there a piece of information that we missed receiving that would have indicated rafts are necessary for use at the Shard Cove rendezvous? Up to right now I have been picturing the ship putting a dinghy to shore and we put the people in the dinghy and off they go.
Of course we're not going to try to have those people swim out there on their own if it gets to that. Assuming the cost of a raft is as indicated in GM Core (3gp), this situation is the same as the antiplague: Modra will pay the cost now for the sake of getting it done expeditiously in narrative terms, and I will appreciate other players speaking up that they are willing to share in the cost for when it is reckoned in the chronicle afterwards.
Was there a piece of information that we missed receiving that would have indicated rafts are necessary for use at the Shard Cove rendezvous?
Arguably, there were a few "clues", although in retrospect, I suppose they were all rather subtle.
Flitch was apparently given some responsibility for the planned departure at Shard Cove.
Flitch showed himself not to be "smart", when he failed to lay low at this flat.
Flitch declared that he wouldn't need his repair kit anymore.
The party was informed out-of-character that building rafts was a possibility.
If the party inquires, they will discover that Flitch was put in charge of securing boats for use at Shard Cove to get clients to Rolanda's Prayer and, in fact, he had done so. He also secured a repair kit in case the boats were damaged during transport.
Unfortunately, when Guaril fled the city and it appeared that the plan was in danger of being discovered, Flitch decided it was best to destroy "the evidence" and he fled to the sewers, broke up the wooden boats, and burned the wood. Not only was the "evidence" destroyed, but Flitch was also left warm and dry by the resulting fire.
Was there a piece of information that we missed receiving that would have indicated rafts are necessary for use at the Shard Cove rendezvous? Up to right now I have been picturing the ship putting a dinghy to shore and we put the people in the dinghy and off they go.
Of course we're not going to try to have those people swim out there on their own if it gets to that. Assuming the cost of a raft is as indicated in GM Core (3gp), this situation is the same as the antiplague: Modra will pay the cost now for the sake of getting it done expeditiously in narrative terms, and I will appreciate other players speaking up that they are willing to share in the cost for when it is reckoned in the chronicle afterwards.
Magnus is in on the cost
Do we have more than 5 passengers even without the stone giant?
1. Themolin
2. Yuleg
3. Yuleg's daughter
4. Flitch
5. Professor Daffrid
6. Garrla the guard
7. Seddothrum the Stone Giant
Feels like we are going to have to make value choices...
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I have been trying to stay on top of details this whole scenario precisely to avoid this situation of finding out late in the game that we were overlooking something stupid. I will just say that for me this "hey, you need to have a raft" is something that would fit under the GM's comment to me about Pathfinders being trained agents and we don't need to get bogged down in such details. I feel like the characters, experiencing this over five days, would know something like that in a way that can be - and obviously was - lost on players as we have experienced this over four months. I will do the best I can to help the group succeed from here.
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@Magnus, the people who don't get out through Shard Cove will have the opportunity to leave with us from the docks at our own departure. Or at least that was the briefing we were given, which we have now been made aware may have been more incomplete than any of us recognized or verbalized up til now. Max of five get out on Rolanna's Prayer and then we try to get the rest with us on the Merry Mayfly.
I continue to feel that our best choice for the first group is Yuleg, Vurna, Flitch, Kallade, Themolin, though in light of missing the clues on the raft business I am concerned that there is going to be drama from Yuleg since he has made at least one direct comment about hoping there are multiple boats. Similarly I wonder if Professor Daffrid will leave without incident if we try to take Seddothrum. But I don't know how else we could divide it. I'm assuming that splitting the family of four is a non-starter. We can't both keep them together and split up Flitch/Vurna, because Kallade intimated to us (I feel) that she would be recognized leaving from the docks. Indeed, it's where we first saw her. So even if we did the family and Kallade now, we've still got the possible Yuleg problem later. It seems to me that managing his feelings (if needed) would be easier than disguising Kallade from her fellow guardsmen.
I have been trying to spark discussion about a Seddothrum solution for a while and I don't have one. I would like to get that poor giant out of this city.
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Emil has a crafting of +4. What is the DC of making a raft? Can Flitch let us know where he got the parts for the raft he was supposed to make?
If the stone giant can meet at the cover, he could carry everyone to the boat assuming the cove is not too deep.
There is a five gold item called a buoyancy vest. We could perhaps sell a piece of artwork to collect the funds to buy these for the five passengers and anyone with athletics could aid them.
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Emil has a crafting of +4. What is the DC of making a raft? Can Flitch let us know where he got the parts for the raft he was supposed to make?
One clue it seems we collectively missed was the presence of the barrels of fish in the inn, which could be used to be fashioned into rafts. Those materials are still available to us. Given that Emil and Modra were able to treat Vurna overnight with no carryover fatigue effects into the next day, potentially a crafting team could bring those barrels down and make them into rafts overnight with no negative impacts into day 4.
The risk of relying entirely on that at this point is if we fail the craft then we don't have anything. Modra is also +4 to Crafting; our good numbers are Magnus +7 and Alenor +6. One of Emil and Modra each aiding one of Magnus and Alenor and maybe we get it done. I suppose "buy a raft and sell it back the next day" should be an option, so we'd only be out 1.5g net instead of 3g.
I'm intrigued by the suggestion of trying Seddothrum. Lacking insight into the depth of that cove, we can't be sure that would work. Vurna knows where the cove is and has not been indicated to be unreliable as Flitch, so maybe she could at least give us an idea of how deep it is and whether "stone giant wades into the surf" is feasible.
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Redmond will help with the cost of rafts from his earnings.
Is Seddothrum large or huge? It's hard to know if he would be tall enough without knowing the depth of the cove and the size of the ship. He would still need to breath, and I'm worried about currents, too.
My opinion is that Daffrid and her family should go on the Rolana's Prayer, along with Themolin. As Modra mentioned, splitting the family might not be an option, and Themolin is a nervous wreck - no way he gets past the guards to the Mayfly.
We also have the option to forge documents, like Flitch was trying to do in the sewers.
The best idea I have to get the others out would be to disguise Seddothrum as a load of stone on the wagon at the Rockfish, and pass ourselves off as a dwarven merchant company (consisting of Modra, Yuleg, and Vurna) and guards (the rest of us). The forged documents we arrived with were for merchants, maybe we could make some extra copies for Yuleg, Vurna, and Flitch.
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My opinion is that Daffrid and her family should go on the Rolana's Prayer, along with Themolin. As Modra mentioned, splitting the family might not be an option, and Themolin is a nervous wreck - no way he gets past the guards to the Mayfly.We also have the option to forge documents, like Flitch was trying to do in the sewers.
The best idea I have to get the others out would be to disguise Seddothrum as a load of stone on the wagon at the Rockfish, and pass ourselves off as a dwarven merchant company (consisting of Modra, Yuleg, and Vurna) and guards (the rest of us). The forged documents we arrived with were for merchants, maybe we could make some extra copies for Yuleg, Vurna, and Flitch.
I have thought about this some more and I like your suggestion of the professor and family + Themolin for the Shard Cove group. I think you're right that there's no way we're getting Themolin to stay cool at a checkpoint and it's probably also the case that the little kids we haven't met yet could say anything. So, it makes sense to have that group of people be the ones who don't go through any guards to get out. We will need to either bring Vurna in and out of the sewers with us or get very detailed directions of the secret route out there from her.
I had been thinking that Kallade being recognized at the docks was a failure point to avoid. I do feel that's still a risk but I'm willing to take the chance that we could work through that. Potentially, Kallade "escorts" us right through the checkpoint, then just gets on the ship with us and we leave before anybody notices she stayed on the ship? It's possible that what I was interpreting as her saying "you can't let this guy recognize me at the docks" was actually "this guy can totally be bribed." We were directly told in the briefing to pay any bribe to stay free. There is a good bit of time between the day 4 morning departure and the day 5 evening departure to try to re-establish contact with Kallade in a more subtle location so she can tell us stuff directly and we might be able to get some better intelligence about that.
The idea of disguising Seddothrum as a load of stone on the wagon has been floating half-formed in my head for a while. I like the way you've put that together. It's a good observation that we have three dwarves to be the "merchants" and the rest of the people probably can pose as guards or (in Flitch's case) some kind of clerk.
The PCs have various ways they can approach the escape of clients via Shard Cove. For instance, you could go all at once with clients stealthily, send the party out ahead to clear any threats, form a defensive formation around the client, or some other way of the party's choosing.
I am not trying to "hide the boat", so to speak. If your PCs were not assisting with the Medicine checks overnight at the Rockfish, then feel free to attempt Crafting checks to try and build a raft or two.
Alternatively, the PCs have time to purchase some sort of watercraft if they wish.
Let me know the plan and I will move us to the next encounter accordingly.
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The PCs have various ways they can approach the escape of clients via Shard Cove. For instance, you could go all at once with clients stealthily, send the party out ahead to clear any threats, form a defensive formation around the client, or some other way of the party's choosing.
I am not trying to "hide the boat", so to speak. If your PCs were not assisting with the Medicine checks overnight at the Rockfish, then feel free to attempt Crafting checks to try and build a raft or two.
I appreciate this. I was frustrated when I posted the other night and could have been more diplomatic in expressing my thoughts. I apologize for that. The stuff about the raft felt like a gotcha in that moment and that's what informed my reaction.
If those characters who were idle over night 1/night 2 have the opportunity to retroactively do those Crafting checks now, I feel that is a fair resolution. That clears up what was frustrating to me. Modra and Emil were spoken for with the Medicine checks to treat Vurna, so we won't be able to attempt the aid, and Redmond indicated at the time that he's not trained, but Magnus and Alenor still have pretty good modifiers for level 1. If the dice gods aren't with us for those rolls, at least we had a chance to solve the challenge.
Magnus worked on a raft at the last down time, but I don't know if he lled poorly or if the work was more than he could do but he planned on implementing the various barrels already.
Then the raft was intended to give the stone giant a place to ride, so a less ambitious project might work better
Magnus worked on a raft at the last down time, but I don't know if he lled poorly or if the work was more than he could do but he planned on implementing the various barrels already.
Then the raft was intended to give the stone giant a place to ride, so a less ambitious project might work better
As I recall, the check did not meet the DC.
Full Transparency: PC trained in Crafting who spends 8 hours can Craft a barrel into a raft that holds four creatures with a DC 17 Craft check. With a critical success, the completed raft holds six creatures. On a failure, the raft is not completed. A critical failure ruins the barrel, and the PCs can no longer attempt to create a raft from it.
I am away for Spring Break staring tomorrow through Sunday next week. Feel free to Bot Magnus (and the dolphin)as you see fit. will try to check in when I can during the interval but may not be daily.
Had a PFS near-TPK once running a game where the PCs fully armored, went on a boat. Half the group drowned due to not being able to swim in armor...
Not sure it will, but did sending Magnus' familiar to the boat to alert the crew have any effect? It only speaks Fey but can be very persistent...
Had a PFS near-TPK once running a game where the PCs fully armored, went on a boat. Half the group drowned due to not being able to swim in armor...
If it was a 1e scenario, I suspect I know which one that was.
Not sure it will, but did sending Magnus' familiar to the boat to alert the crew have any effect? It only speaks Fey but can be very persistent...
It did not. As written, the scenario states, "Its crew remains below deck to avoid drawing attention and provides no assistance. The PCs will have to escort the refugees across open water."
I will accept an argument that the author, perhaps, could have made better choices, but the system was entirely new at the time of publication and I believe the thought process was to keep things simpler for the GM than involving NPCs (ship's crew or clients) in combat.
The scenario was published before the Vehicle rules, but it does provide most of the stats for the barrel raft:
Use the following for any raft crafted by a PC: Raft Hardness 5, Raft HP 20 (BT 10); Immunities critical hits, object immunities, precision damage. A raft is 2 Bulk.
It turns out, those barrels (and the party's craftsmanship) are superior to those used in a typical raft! The scenario stats are more akin to those of a rowboat in Hardness and Hit Points, so I chose to apply the Piloting checks, AC, and Speed of the rowboat to the barrel raft used by the party rather than those of the the later-printed raft.
I am not an expert on the Vehicles rules. Outside of this scenario, I don't recall having ever been in a PF2e game where they have been used. However, the Vehicle Rules state that, in encounter mode, a vehicle moves on its pilot’s turn, and the pilot must use their actions to control it. A vehicle can take part in only 1 move action each round, even if multiple creatures Take Control as pilots on the same round.
I believe that this means that the dolphin took a two-action Move, the first check was a Piloting check required by the reckless action, the second check should have been ignored, and the raft moved twice its speed (40 feet). Mechanically, I believe the result is the same as what was previously posted.
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I would like to be able to play this character in a multi-table special for the Bridging the Gap PBP event that starts in a month. It does seem like we're winding into the home stretch here.
GM, do you think we will get across the finish line before that event at the current pace? If not, could we possibly set a reasonable amount of time for each challenge that, if someone has not acted on it within that time, their best trained skill gets a bot roll?
This table should be wrapped up before Bridging the Gap even at the current posting rate. Should that appear to no longer be the case by next week, I will try to move things along and may consider botting.
Of course, players are encouraged to post daily if reasonably possible.