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I'm still here but as I've GM'd it already I didn't want to give anything away. Also I didn't think Lod went up in the lift with the others so I was waiting for that to resolve. I think this part of the adventure is tricky, especially over PbP and requires some careful pushing from the players and GM alike.
I did assume most everyone has run this before, but that doesn't always mean they remember everything! I know in the few I have done more than once, the second time through I do hold back to avoid making decisions, but occasionally that seems to leave only a single person making calls, and that doesn't always keep things moving.
Anyway, we are coming close to the end of this scenario (as I am sure most already know), and I am finding myself in a position to ask more GM advice.
I am re-reviewing the success conditions, and I wonder what to do if the party is in danger of missing the secondary objective (2PP vs 1PP). As a player, I have only had this happen once, so it doesn't seem common. And I also know, especially for 1st level characters, these PP are really quite valuable.
(You all have completed them, assuming you get out, so this is just for my future reference.)
As I read them and recall your actions, I could see how you might have missed them even though not due to any fault of your actions (You found alternate solutions to some of the conditions listed, for instance.)
I know in all the games I have played, it is often very difficult to guess the secondary objectives. In this particular case, I think few of the conditions were obvious - it is one of those "do three or more of the following", and you could easily have finished with only 2 out of 3.
So, as GM, should I have done more to point out the conditions? Is there any flex for the GM to decide "well, 2 out of three plus really they did something unexpected that should qualify"? Or is it really just RAW (because it does not seem subjective, but very objective scoring)?
I am sort of assuming the last one is correct, but not sure how well that is followed.
I have seen forum posts of GM's trying to fudge with things to avoid TPK, but since creatures are listed with specific tactics to follow, etc., I kind of question if that is allowable too.
Thoughts?
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In that particular scenario we would have had to make multiple diplomacy checks to meet a condition. You could ask for them during parts of the game where you feel they are warranted. When we team up to beat the vacuum/elementals. If when we explain why we are there and working together. Stuff like that. Otherwise you did just five and there is no shame in onky getting 1 PP, this scenario is kinda like that. No worries :).
As far as fudging rolls, that's a GM call. If the book says play monster "X", a certain way, play it as scripted. The game is meant to be challenging, there are a few mods and such where the Paizo staff is on crack when it comes to encounter design. ** cough****cough**, but if the dice deem it so, most players should be "adult" enough to accept it.
GM have some leeway but in PFS most things are cut and dry. You cannot alter encounters, but GM goal is to ensure all players have fun...any one else with thoughts??
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Agree that fun is the most important factor. I've had some terrific death scenes that were fine with me because they were fun and the dice just turned against us; and others that were miserable because we had zero chance from jump (my ill-prepared table of Waking Rune comes to mind, and yeah, Taidus brings up a good point about the [redacted] in Enigma Vaults.
As for secondary objectives, sometimes you can remind people ("anything else you want to do?") but other times you just need to let the chips fall where they may. I'm reminded of the secondary objective in Destiny of Sands pt 3, where one of my players said, "I'd never ever get that prestige point then, cos my PC would never do that."
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A few thoughts to add:
1. Creative solutions: very much encouraged by the Guide to Organized Play so long as DCs and whatnot are not arbitrarily changed. I feel that this can (but certainly doesn't always) apply to Secondary Success conditions; if there is a list of items that the PCs need to complete a portion of, I feel that circumventing one of those 'challenges' via a creative solution qualifies as completing the challenge.
2. Tactics: I think there's actually more flexibility than most forum-goers acknowledge. The "run as written" line of the Guide is there to prevent a GM from having the 7th level BBEG cast acid splash each round to make for freebie chronicles, and likewise to prevent a GM from using an over-powered option (2d6 channel negative energy over and over again against 1st level characters) or adding unwritten foes (here, have a magic-bane bandersnatch) to mercilessly murder PCs. However, the "unless invalidated by the PCs" line is also pretty important. Analyzing the motivations and goals of the baddies that are (usually) written into the scenario, the GM can determine whether they're madmen intent on burning the whole word down--in which case outright killing PCs is a goal--or a more 3D NPC who is intent on survival but not necessarily murder. In the latter case, as a GM I still aim for a challenging encounter, but I don't hit PCs after they're down, don't coup de grace, and generally don't fireball the guy with one hit point left. I won't have a BBEG do nothing for a round, but if it makes sense for the character ze might gloat and toy with a nearly TPK'd party rather than just blasting and TPK'ing them, giving the PCs just enough time to regroup and win. I have often seen tactics written that the NPCs focus on one PC until they're down, but I have never seen tactics written that the NPCs focus on one PC until they're dead. As Taidus said we're all here to have fun, after all, and not everyone finds character death fun.*
3. Scenario goals: sometimes the writing isn't the best and the tasks/goals for the PCs are really contrived (hello, old faction missions). Sometimes they're really just not obvious. As a GM, I typically use fluff text and (much more occasionally) OOC hints to nudge the PCs in the right direction. If they PCs need to bring a pie back from the bakery for the Venture-Captain (which wouldn't necessarily be obvious), I might have the baker ask once or even twice if anyone wants to purchase some of the delicious yindleberry pies that were just wrapped up.
4. The bandits: for NPCs like these two, the party is much more likely to interact with them if they also interact with the world. Have them react to a new room in the same way a PC would, and the players will react to the bandits as they do to each other.
Anyway, hope this helps.
*That said, sometimes the dice just get really bad for the players and really good for the bad guys. It happens. And sometimes the party does something stupid enough to warrant a death. "Sure, I'll send my 8 Con wizard to scout ahead of the party. What could possibly go wrong?"
Is anyone using the new Faction Cards? If so, and want to be considered for an event, let me know. I don't think I need to document it in anyway, but I think I am supposed to at least give a nod. Since they just came out, you don't have a lot of options at this stage. But before this scenario comes to a close, I wanted to give those who wanted a last-minute chance.
Korvan Day Job
OK - I hope I am doing this right.
I put chronicles up here
Please double check that I got them right - let me know if you need it edited or anything else noted on them. I don't know anyone's starting XP and gold, for instance, but all the ones I get as a player are blank, so I assume that is the process for PbP.
I was also working on reporting this online. I have a Event ID for
#59703 - GM Fuzzfoot's #6–01: Trial by Machine.
As I type in each character #, the details fill in, except for Taidus.
If I type in 63386-16, I get nothing. Then as I start to type in Taidus, it gives me the name Taidus Raine to select, and changes the ID to 63386-17. It also is not showing him as PRC (which I assume means Core).
So before I post the form, is this right? Is it ok? I am hesitant because I have a core character already flipped to non-core because the GM misposted it, and it still isn't fixed yet (even though GM reposted properly).
Any thoughts?
One more question: When reporting, it asks for "Scenario missions accomplished: A B C D"
I don't really see any reference to these in the scenario. Should I check anything? I was checking A & B, but now I am not sure that is right.
OK - this has been reported, and I think it went through just fine. I am going to make this campaign inactive now, but feel free to PM me if anything seems amiss.
It sounds like half the group is going to sit out for a bit, so I think I will just open the next game up to public recruitment. But if anyone wants to run something specific, let me know and I will reserve your spot before opening the call.
Thanks again for all of the advice. It was extremely helpful!