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Four players and Core only certainly does reset the difficulty curve for these adventures making them seem fresh and new again.
That being said you can certainly make a very capable (and damaging) archer with Core only. Archery is (generally) a much better combat platform than melee combat as you can full attack practically every round. There are ways around this (Pounce, Quickened Bladed Dash, Spell Combat. incredible reach etc...) but as a rule it holds.
Melee combat is great for 3/4 martial characters as the entry point is so low. High strength, a two handed weapon and Power Attack and you are ready to go. :)
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Gathering stuff to get my post up…but need some help here with bull rush. How does that affect targets who are flying as far as the prone part goes? She has a little space but not much from the wall / ceiling (about 5’ each). And how far are you pushing/moving her?
Also, I know she doesn’t get an AoO for the bull rush but I’m assuming she still gets an AoO as you get closer to her and before the actual shield slam as she has reach…
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As far as I understand, people who are flying are immune to the prone condition.
Also, unless the bull rushing PC used Acrobatics while approaching to avoid an AoO (or approached using a 5' step), the movement up to attack her *would* provoke an AoO (as soon as the PC leaves a threatened square - so if she has 10' reach, when the PC leaves the square that is two squares away and enters the adjacent square). However, because this AoO is triggered by the movement, not the Combat Maneuver, a success on the AoO will not affect the Combat Maneuver (unless the AoO itself does something, like knock the PC out, or trip them, or whatever), in contrast to the AoO that is provoked by a Combat Maneuver (when the initiating character doesn't have the Improved Bull Rush (or Grapple or whatever) feat); in that situation, if the provoked AoO does damage to the initiating character, that damage is also a penalty on the CMB check for the maneuver.
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I sure hope that your character rolls high and defeats the displacement spell. Otherwise Theo might hit nothing but air and (potentially) slam into a wall. Talk about embarrassing. :)
That would be a neat visual but that is unfortunately (for Flint) not supported by the rules. You only keep moving with the enemy following a successful bull rush maneuver, as determined in the square the maneuver is performed. Sorry! :)
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Gathering stuff to get my post up…but need some help here with bull rush. How does that affect targets who are flying as far as the prone part goes? She has a little space but not much from the wall / ceiling (about 5’ each). And how far are you pushing/moving her?
Also, I know she doesn’t get an AoO for the bull rush but I’m assuming she still gets an AoO as you get closer to her and before the actual shield slam as she has reach…
This FAQ might help, but it's really up to the GM in corner cases like this. The FAQ does support the idea that she'll need to make some fly check to hover, at the very least, but I've seen GMs knock people out of flying positions with various methods, due to fly checks happening only your turn. If you want to simplify, you can assume Theodric came from above and bull rushed her into the ground, as he had lots of movement to account for the ascent and the descent.
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PS: the "Checked" and "Blown Away" wind conditions under the fly skill may also help inspire a GM in situations related to flying bull rushes / trips and the like...
“Checked” means that creatures of that size or smaller must succeed on a DC 20 Fly check to move at all so long as the wind persists.
“Blown away” means that creatures of that size or smaller must succeed on a DC 25 Fly check or be blown back 2d6×10 feet and take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage. This check must be made every round the creature remains airborne. A creature that is blown away must still make a DC 20 Fly check to move due to also being checked.
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^All flying creatures on earth fly horizontally at least most of the time. Of course I should never bring common sense into a rules discussion as we all know the folly of that. :)
Of course Theo body checking a giant snake woman into the ground would look cool. I will leave it up to the GM to decide the visual effects.
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It’s not official at all, just an idea I had that I rolled with. When you mentioned seeing a GM using a DC20 fly, I thought that was too low for this situation; so I used 10 as a base, took your roll, subtracted the creature’s CMD from it, and added the difference (17) to get 27. Kinda made sense to me that it should be tougher to stay flying the ‘harder’ the hit…
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Avoid Falling After Being Attacked
You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.Avoid Falling After Collision
If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.
I'd like if it there was a rule that the amount of damage you take is a penalty on your Fly check to stay aloft - would make a lot of sense - but as far as I know there isn't anything like that.
My experience has been that a lot of GMs just hand wave it at higher levels since everyone is flying and everyone can auto-make the checks to hover.
I like the way that PF 2e implemented Flying much better.
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how did they do it? Might adapt it to my 1e house rules if it was done in a cool way...I like the way that PF 2e implemented Flying much better.
It's connected to the 2e action economy (every round you have 3 actions plus a reaction). If you are flying you have to use an action to fly or you automatically fall. So it has a built in cost that in 1e, once your Fly skill is sufficient to auto the Hover check, you basically stop thinking about whether or not to fly.
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Are you people enjoying 2nd edition? I find that people tend to love or hate it.
I like it a lot. Probably more than 1e (though of course I like 1e plenty too).
I enjoy that it's still possible to explore all sorts of crazy and creative character designs but much harder to make those so broken that you completely outshine a newb at the table who doesn't have the system mastery to compete.
I enjoy the 3 action economy a lot and also that it makes it vastly easier to explain the game to someone new.
I find skills, and especially their associated feats, really interesting now, where in 1e I usually found myself getting bored and checked out when an adventure would have a skill challenge section.
I like that combat is much more dynamic with people moving around the battlefield much more. No more of just standing in place and Full Attacking until a foe falls and then rinse-repeat.
And I especially like that the game moves much more smoothly now. In 1e I would often find myself making a Knowledge check at the start of my turn and then needing 20 minutes to decide what to do with my turn, bogging everything down for everyone. 2e is really not like that at all - even when you have lots of choices of what to do on your turn (and you usually do) - the turns move swiftly.
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It's connected to the 2e action economy (every round you have 3 actions plus a reaction). If you are flying you have to use an action to fly or you automatically fall. So it has a built in cost that in 1e, once your Fly skill is sufficient to auto the Hover check, you basically stop thinking about whether or not to fly.how did they do it? Might adapt it to my 1e house rules if it was done in a cool way...I like the way that PF 2e implemented Flying much better.
Oh I thought there was a neat fly skill check section with some cool stuff... so fly is like using a shield now? you have a to waste one of your three actions to even use it?
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I find the magic items in 1e a bit underwhelming. I have piles of cash saved up and nothing interesting to put it in until I can beef up a weapon or get a 4th level item. I prefer the feats in 1e too. But I do like the mechanics of 2e better.
I'm the opposite in terms of magic items: I find the 2e ones really boring and annoying. Much prefer the 1e items.
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I find the magic items in 1e a bit underwhelming. I have piles of cash saved up and nothing interesting to put it in until I can beef up a weapon or get a 4th level item. I prefer the feats in 1e too. But I do like the mechanics of 2e better.I'm the opposite in terms of magic items: I find the 2e ones really boring and annoying. Much prefer the 1e items.
I agree that some of the 2e ones are sort of tedious. But I like that they did away with all the essentially obligatory ones in 1e, like how you could never take any cloak but a cloak of resistance because otherwise your saves would be too low.
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While I wouldn’t say I hate 2e, I’m not a fan…the 3 action economy is OK but I don’t like how they’ve restricted combat feats (i.e., the better archer feats are limited to fighters not rangers), not a fan of how you get ancestry feats, and they nerfed the longbow.
My favorite fantasy hero, from books and movies, have always been Elven Archers/Rangers and that’s my preferred RPG PC…and PF2e killed that, at least for me. Sad thing is, 1e PBP is steadily dying out…if/when it does, I’ll probably go back to 5e or maybe the new 6e when they release it…
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I agree that some of the 2e ones are sort of tedious. But I like that they did away with all the essentially obligatory ones in 1e, like how you could never take any cloak but a cloak of resistance because otherwise your saves would be too low.I find the magic items in 1e a bit underwhelming. I have piles of cash saved up and nothing interesting to put it in until I can beef up a weapon or get a 4th level item. I prefer the feats in 1e too. But I do like the mechanics of 2e better.I'm the opposite in terms of magic items: I find the 2e ones really boring and annoying. Much prefer the 1e items.
Cloaks of Resistance should have never existed... that, or they should have allowed the stacking of enchantments on items in PFS. I find the cloak of resistance problem not really being a problem in a rigorously GMed homecampaign or AP done in campaign mode... The cloak of resistance issue is most accentuated in PFS because 'every PC must be an island' and not rely on the same teammates for each adventure. When your party has a cleric constantly surrounded by a magic circle against evil, you find that many PCs begin to ditch the cloak of resistance for other cool stuff...
My favorite item ever was when my halfling swashbuckler touted a Cloak of Manta Ray in the underwater dungeon of Hell's Rebels. They called him the 'halfling torpedo' or something similar as all the enemies saw was a large size manta ray with a hand sticking out holding a rapier... with swim speed 60 or something similarly ridiculous... lol... it was a blast!
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Sad thing is, 1e PBP is steadily dying out…if/when it does, I’ll probably go back to 5e or maybe the new 6e when they release it…
1e PBP may 'die out' but I guarantee you'll keep seeing lots of action over VTT... that's where I've put most of my energy in the last 2 years. Roll20 is a blast, and you get an entire scenario done between 6:30 and 10:30, Pacific Time, about twice a week. For AP books, we can do one entire book in two or three nights.
But my absolute favorite gaming time is with a local group of friends playing APs. We take our sweet time, and that's how you get the most fun out of gaming I think. We've been on book 3 of Strange Aeons for about 1 year now, playing two or three nights a month, and we leave no stone unturned. When the AP says "if the PC dies in the dreamworld, they wake up with a madness", well, we do just that, and we use that as fuel for roleplaying. We welcome adversity, disease, gelatinous cubes and memory-wiping incidents! Only through 'fear of failure' does this game become boring and repetitive. Accept the bumps on the road and the occasional loss of limb, and the game becomes more fun! ;)
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@GM Otha - This effect is a real pain in the butt and you will have to review every magical item roll for each character. Now some points.
Yes, it’s a real pain…
1) (Assuming it is Mage's Disjunction from the nature of the effect and the Spellcraft DC of 24): Characters that are flying with the Fly spell or Overland Flight might be fine as they will fall (like Feather Fall) for 1d6 rounds at 60 feet per round when the magic is dispelled. If they land during this time then they will take no damage or potentially less damage than anticipated from the fall. Mage's Disjunction works as Dispel Magic in terms of stripping away magical effects. If this is some sort of Anti-Magic Field then Fly just stops suddenly.
You assume correctly that it’s Mage’s Disjunction…but can you explain the falling to me? I assumed that since fly was dispelled, you’d immediately start falling…but you know I’m not as well versed in magic…
2) We will need to know what the Will DC of the spell is to resist for all of our magical items.
I’ll double-check, but I think the Will save for items is DC23; you can use either the item’s will mod or your own, whichever is highest…
3) I am assuming that all our magical items bonuses will be working to make these saves so we will benefit from our ability boosters and cloaks of protection for these saves. We might also be able to benefit from spells like Heroism for these item saves. You will have to adjudicate.
I would read it as your magical item bonuses would apply but spell benefits would not…
4) Items stored in extra-dimensional storing items should be shielded from this effect as they are not currently in the area of effect of this spell but are stored in a pocket dimension. Items would probably not be accessible if the storing item in question failed its will save.
I would concur on both points…
5) A natural 1 on an item saving throw destroys the item permanently. I hope people have saved their re-rolls. :)
Aye, I hope so as well…not a fan of item destruction this way. If you fail the save otherwise, the item is just considered mundane until the spell’s duration ends…
6) Zaarah has two negative levels which means an additional -2 on all Will saves. This is cumulative with the -4 planar penalty for a total of -6 on all item Will saves. Yikes!
Yeah, that sucks…I just hope no one rolls a 1 unless they have a reroll…
7) Are new spells even possible in this area? I would think not.
As I read it, within the area of effect, new spells are disallowed until the spell’s duration ends. Outside of it, I’m thinking you’re good…again, I’ll double-check…
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@GM Otha - When in doubt check the original text of the rules. The Fly spell says if the spell is dispelled it acts as the spell just ended. When the Fly spell ends a character floats down for 1d6 rounds at 60 feet per round. If you check the Mage Disjunction spell it says that it ends spells as Dispel Magic. Hence all character will be floating downwards for 1d6 rounds until the Fly or Overland Flight spell end. :)
Please verify the save DC of the Mage's Disjunction spell as it will matter for most characters. The bonus for item saving throws are 2+(item level/2) rounded down. Most characters here will want to use their own Will saves instead. :)
My understanding of the rules is that Make Whole (of sufficient caster level) will fix destroyed magical items.
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I think, though, that if this is a permanent effect area, the feather fall will also be affected by the disjunction. Is it?
@GM Ortha
For the sake of sanity, will we need to calculate stats in our tag line taking the disjunction into affect, or will we be passing through and should include our belts and headbands and such in our stats? I'd really rather not have to do both.
Note to others: Save your item saving throw post in an editor. This is one post you do not want the gremlins to get ahold of and destroy!