Kineticist playtest hype!!!

What are you hoping for ends up in the playtest?

Hoping for d6 ranged elemental blaps that increase along martial proficiency and get the regular goodies from handwraps of mighty blows or diadems if they bring those back from pf1. Elemental shortbow the class, and I'll be satisfied. Probably bad armor and saves to account for the power of martial ranged element damage but that's fine. Select feats and focus point abilities to do cool stuff with your elements.

What are you hoping for ends up in the playtest?

As long as burn isn't inexorably tied to being competitive, I'm up for for most anything.

Personally most important things are increasing weapon dice without items (I doubt it'll happen but reeeally hope for it) and good at will damage and malleable blasts (targetting areas and the like).

I'm sure most folks will mention other things I'm looking forward to already, but I'm sort of hoping for kineticist to be our first con-focused class. I like the idea of being very chonky while not having to be a barbarian.

Hoping for d6 ranged elemental blaps that increase along martial proficiency and get the regular goodies from handwraps of mighty blows or diadems if they bring those back from pf1. Elemental shortbow the class, and I'll be satisfied. Probably bad armor and saves to account for the power of martial ranged element damage but that's fine. Select feats and focus point abilities to do cool stuff with your elements.

Got it in one. Let me be a martial dishing out cold damage and I'm happy. Extra bonus points if melee Kineticists can shine.

I do like burn as a concept and hope it sticks around, though in a more strictly risk/reward fashion rather than something mandatory to engage in. If the class runs on focus points and you can get more than the usual allowance by taking damage that'd be good.

Also, this has nothing to do with kineticist, but I just realized something. If we don't get an elemental barbarian instinct in the book titled Rage of Elements imma cry.

Hoping for d6 ranged elemental blaps that increase along martial proficiency and get the regular goodies from handwraps of mighty blows or diadems if they bring those back from pf1. Elemental shortbow the class, and I'll be satisfied. Probably bad armor and saves to account for the power of martial ranged element damage but that's fine. Select feats and focus point abilities to do cool stuff with your elements.

I hope earth has high AC at least..

I'm going to say a thing here that I said in the GenCon guesses thread (and expand on it, because this is me).

I know what I want for the Kineticist. I want my all-magic no-daily-resources caster. It's been my favorite class type since the warlock and dragon adept back in 3.x, and it was a void in the system I noticed instantly on being drawn to PF2 and I miss it.

I know that others want things that are, to a greater or lesser degree, mutually exclusive with the thing that I want. Ideally, Paizo somehow pulls off the impossible magic of making all of us happy. Failing that?

Well, if it doesn't wind up being the thing I want for me - if it's all "martial chassis blaster with elemental unarmed attacks that depends on burn" or something... I at least still have hope. Thaumaturge implements are cool enough, and enough distance in the right direction that I have faith that we'll get a class that makes me happy in that way eventually, even if this one isn't it.

In the meantime, though... I expect that the initial Kineticist will be somewhat underwhelming, and we should be prepared for that, and that the version that comes out once they've taken in all of the feedback will be awesome in its own way, and make at least some of us (and probably quite a lot of us) very happy.

Also, this has nothing to do with kineticist, but I just realized something. If we don't get an elemental barbarian instinct in the book titled Rage of Elements imma cry.

That's fair.

Can't wait for potentialist.

Probably the Kineticist is the most asked class since the release (only competing with Magus and Summoner before the SoM Playtest).

Let's see what Paizo will give to us to playtest and hope that most people become happy instead of frustrated.

Another thing I'm wondering is Kineticist will be the only one class to playtest this time?

Also, this has nothing to do with kineticist, but I just realized something. If we don't get an elemental barbarian instinct in the book titled Rage of Elements imma cry.

Though Dragon seems like it would have a huge overlap with elemental rage damage and an elemental aoe attack.

Probably the Kineticist is the most asked class since the release (only competing with Magus and Summoner before the SoM Playtest).

Let's see what Paizo will give to us to playtest and hope that most people become happy instead of frustrated.

Another thing I'm wondering is Kineticist will be the only one class to playtest this time?

There's only one class in Rage of Elementals and only one class in this playtest.

Here's what I want to see

I want a kineticist that has 3 focus at lvl 1. Refocus charges the 3 back up.

Every ability can be used infinite times, like cantrips, but beefed up using focus points. Each ability has 4 levels. Normal/+1/+2/+3

If I use 3 focus points, I can create a big effect one time.

Like if I want to cast a fireball, I'll deal 1d6. Use 1 focus to make it 20 ft radius. Use 2 focus to increase it to 3d6 damage.. or something like that.

Burn would be a mechanic that costs 1 action to take non lethal damage equal to your level to restore 1 focus point.usable multiple times per turn.

Then I want another ability that takes 3 actions that clears all non-lethal damage you've taken.

It would be the ultimate self performance engine that needs focus points to function, but sacrifices life or turns to beef up previous actions.

YuriP wrote:

Probably the Kineticist is the most asked class since the release (only competing with Magus and Summoner before the SoM Playtest).

Let's see what Paizo will give to us to playtest and hope that most people become happy instead of frustrated.

Another thing I'm wondering is Kineticist will be the only one class to playtest this time?

There's only one class in Rage of Elementals and only one class in this playtest.

I think the reason is, is that kineticist itself is a huge project with so many feats and options.

I want a kineticist that has 3 focus at lvl 1. Refocus charges the 3 back up.

This might get wonky with picking up Focus Spells from Archetypes. I'm not sure how it could be broken, but I bet the optimizers could figure something out.

Verzen wrote:

I want a kineticist that has 3 focus at lvl 1. Refocus charges the 3 back up.

This might get wonky with picking up Focus Spells from Archetypes. I'm not sure how it could be broken, but I bet the optimizers could figure something out.

Psychic handled it appropriately.

Just put in, "as long as they only used focus points for kineticist abilities" like psychic has

I didn't really mess with the Kineticist much in 1e. So the only thing I'm hoping for is the eventual exploration of secondary elements found in setting. I believe they mentioned the playtest will only dive into the four classical elements; but that Wood and Metal would.be options in the full release (correct me if I am wrong). So that is a step in the right direction for what I'd like to see.

This is some kind of Paizo policy change to releases new classes or is an exception? Starting from now do you think that we will only receive just one new class per book?

In APG we have 4 classes released, since SoM this is reduced to 2 (with many people explaning that 4 classes in same book spread designers attention too much), now we have just only one class in the book.

Do you think this is Paizo trying to concentrate better in class development and to give more book space for other things (like new "subclasses", archetypes and maybe even class archetypes)?

I also want kinetic defense back in.

At this point, after all the fighting, I'll just see what they do.

I'd prefer a spell caster, but if it winds up being a martial with elemental attacks, then...hopefully it will be at least somewhat interesting. I did turn around my opinion on the gunslinger, so perhaps the horse may sing.

Paizo has been saying for a while they would be slowing down on class releases and playtests, and that moving forward, not every playtest will have 2 classes. This won't always be the case, if they theme calls for several classes. But I would expect more single class playtests moving forward.

This is some kind of Paizo policy change to releases new classes or is an exception? Starting from now do you think that we will only receive just one new class per book?

In APG we have 4 classes released, since SoM this is reduced to 2 (with many people explaning that 4 classes in same book spread designers attention too much), now we have just only one class in the book.

Do you think this is Paizo trying to concentrate better in class development and to give more book space for other things (like new "subclasses", archetypes and maybe even class archetypes)?

No. The kineticist requires a vast amount of resources considering they are having 6 elements. There are feats that only use those elements for example. So the class should be more massive.

At this point, after all the fighting, I'll just see what they do.

I'd prefer a spell caster, but if it winds up being a martial with elemental attacks, then...well I guess that just sucks.

I know that isn't quite what you're wanting, but with any luck, maybe it could be the only non-spellcasting class that can take Elementalist. Could be a solution if it ends up being a martial, which would be my guess

EDIT: Actually, I could see a Wave Caster.

I'm too in this. Maybe we could see a wavecaster. But no.

Magus and Summoner was a 2/3 caster in PF1 and was turned into a wavecaster in PF2. But Kineticist in PF1 isn't a caster. So I think we might something like a martial! Or maybe a class full dedicated to focus cantrips with some focus spells but I don't believe it will by really a caster.

This is some kind of Paizo policy change to releases new classes or is an exception? Starting from now do you think that we will only receive just one new class per book?

In APG we have 4 classes released, since SoM this is reduced to 2 (with many people explaning that 4 classes in same book spread designers attention too much), now we have just only one class in the book.

Do you think this is Paizo trying to concentrate better in class development and to give more book space for other things (like new "subclasses", archetypes and maybe even class archetypes)?

I wouldn't get your hopes up honestly. The APG was full of player content because, well, it was the APG. The books that have come after have been very themed and split between content for players and content for GM's. I'd more readily assume that the space not being spent on classes is being used on setting information - they're introducing two entirely new elemental planes after all.

AnimatedPaper wrote:

At this point, after all the fighting, I'll just see what they do.

I'd prefer a spell caster, but if it winds up being a martial with elemental attacks, then...well I guess that just sucks.

I know that isn't quite what you're wanting, but with any luck, maybe it could be the only non-spellcasting class that can take Elementalist. Could be a solution if it ends up being a martial, which would be my guess

EDIT: Actually, I could see a Wave Caster.

Depends on how it shakes out, but I can't really see any particular use a martial would have for that class archetype. You need spells for about half the feats, and several of the ones left are for your familiar. Wave casting would, of course, address that.

Otoh, those reactions would certainly be appropriate on a Kineticist, with or without the rest of the archetype.

But no, my biggest problem with a martial that focuses on unarmed elemental strikes is that I'd still rather they add that into the Monk's class feats. It is already something of a focus for Monks, so I'd rather they add support for that type of character with a slew of new monk feats, as making a new class to have that same narrative space seems somewhat redundant(and makes it less likely that the monk will get those cool toys). Which isn't the end of the world, but not the direction I wish they would go.

Edit: wait, did they mention aether at all?

Perhaps they would alter it to grant some measure of spells. But I see what you mean.

I've always been of the impression that Kineticist was purely the Bender part of the Avatar equation, decoupled from the martial arts aspect of much of the shows themes. Iirc, many of them used weapons as part of the Bending. But depending on how it shakes out, don't see what we can't have both in Monk and Kineticist.

Like YuriP said, I'm kind of doubtful it won't be a martial, since it was one in 1e. But 2e has also reinvented several classes in ways none of us imagined. So it could happen. But, if I am being honest, a step away from spells is my preference; especially since with them it becomes less the Kineticist and more of a PF2 take on the Shugenja or Wu Jen of 3.5.

Martial and spellcaster are defined a bit differently in PF2 than they were in PF1 (see how the Paladin and Ranger went from having 4th level casting to only having focus spells). I could genuinely see the kineticist as a class with no slots and no weapon proficiency, just cantrips that would be overpowered on anyone else and focus points to push them even further.

I am hoping for an at will blaster, with options to adjust from a single target ranged blast to other shapes or to add different things it can do. A lot like how it worked in PF1e.

I honestly like a lot of what Legendary Games did on their Legendary Kineticist. Their blasts, mostly, do 1d6 damage as a single action Flourish cantrip that heightens by 1d6 for +1. Some exceptions depending on element. Then Burn ends up being a thing where you take a penalty for 1 round, or use a focus point, or Gather Power for an action per infusion you are adding to your blast.

Cantrip accuracy and no spell slots to compensate would be a worst case scenario for me

Like YuriP said, I'm kind of doubtful it won't be a martial, since it was one in 1e. But 2e has also reinvented several classes in ways none of us imagined. So it could happen. But, if I am being honest, a step away from spells is my preference; especially since with them it becomes less the Kineticist and more of a PF2 take on the Shugenja or Wu Jen of 3.5.

I've always found this to be a curious statement, because they really weren't. Their basic attack was a spell-like ability. They could counterspell at will. Most of their talents and class abilities were adding either improvements to that initial spell or granting even more spells.

I would certainly agree that they did martial damage and accuracy numbers, but the base abilities that got them there are pretty firmly caster. Certain (very popular I will also concede) archetypes did push it more towards martial, but I would hesitate to describe the entire class as such.

Edit: well, I don't want to get drawn further in. I'll leave this post up, but otherwise I apologize for arguing, genial as this discussion has been so far.

Any direction they go, I'll be interested in reading. I may be less interested in playing, and so may check out on the playtest, but that would hardly be a first for me.

I mean if they have spell slots at all I would be extremely disappointed.

I am not sure what you mean by Cantrip Accuracy.

In the Legendary Games version of Kineticist the blast does scale like a cantrip, but with only 1 action and with Flourish. But you can spend extra actions/Burn/Focus points to do things like creating an AoE burst or line, or create a Kinetic Blade, or a lot of things that the PF1e Kineticist could do.

Though the Blasts can have a ranged or melee attack right from the get go.

I feel like the "caster" vs "martial" aspect of the debate feels overwrought.

Like at the core we're talking about a slotless elemental damage dealer with a bevy of mystical abilities.

Whether that's an ability that gains a die every two levels and uses tradition proficiency or whether you buy handwraps and they use their own proficiency honestly seems like a really minor part of the equation.

I mean if they have spell slots at all I would be extremely disappointed.

I am not sure what you mean by Cantrip Accuracy.

In the Legendary Games version of Kineticist the blast does scale like a cantrip, but with only 1 action and with Flourish. But you can spend extra actions/Burn/Focus points to do things like creating an AoE burst or line, or create a Kinetic Blade, or a lot of things that the PF1e Kineticist could do.

Though the Blasts can have a ranged or melee attack right from the get go.

My comment was general, not to anyone specific. By cantrip accuracy I mean no item bonus and therefore relegated to caster accuracy which is tuned down to compensate for versatility. I would prefer a kineticist to hit being comparable to martials. If it's not, I want spell slots. Having neither would be the worst of all worlds

No need to apologize. I don't think anyone found you argumentative. We are all discussing possibilities.

I don't have much stake in this discussion though. My limited experience with the Class in 1e hardly gives me one I feel. But I am excited for it's addition. Most of my thoughts are based on the general consensus I've seen of most others up until now.

I'm the same boat as AnimatedPaper in that most of these arguments are rehashed and there's really not much point in getting into it again since it's coming out Monday (squeeeeeee!!).

Thaaaat being said I really don't get why people think of 1e kineticist as a martial, it definitely seems more magic to me than fighty. But it is a hard thing to determine given how mechanics worked in 1e, so kind of a non argument on either side I guess.

I can't help but feel the majority of people want the class to be martial because of how strong martials are in this edition. But if I have to have runes to determine how powerful the fireball I throw is... That is very silly to me.

No Aether, it will be 6 elements total, in the playtest will have the 4 main ones.

As an aside, does anyone know what Stolen Fates is supposed to be about? I saw the big picture with a dragon, a fortune teller, and an army but didn't get a summary.

No Aether, it will be 6 elements total, in the playtest will have the 4 main ones.

Bummer. I rather liked the flavor of it, but I can see how the choice was arrived at.

As an aside, does anyone know what Stolen Fates is supposed to be about? I saw the big picture with a dragon, a fortune teller, and an army but didn't get a summary.

Related to the Harrow, and linked to a new deck they're producing in April. It's an 11-20.

It would be nice if there was an item to increase accuracy yes. In fact the Legendary Kineticist book had a Kineticist's Diadem magic item that had a free action once a round to give their next Kinetic Blast a status bonus to attack. It is not constant, and has the Concentrate tag, but you also can't use a Kinetic Blast more than once a round anyway since it has the Flourish trait.

Apparently a Paizo Staff member responded on Reddit and a group of them/the designers got together for a 5th level one shot where they all built their own take on a Kineticist to playthrough it and then compare what they each came up with as their idea of what a Kineticist should be, and then took the best ideas from each for the playtest version.

Thaaaat being said I really don't get why people think of 1e kineticist as a martial, it definitely seems more magic to me than fighty.

It's not literally a martial, but the core of the class is dealing round by round direct damage with a specific action, which is martial design space. Kinetic Blade has you literally full attacking even.

In terms of party dynamics, the 1e kineticist does a lot more to slot into the space of a Barbarian or Ranger than it does replicating what a Wizard or Cleric would do. So I can see why people sort of mentally categorize it that way.

I'm really looking forward to how utility talent-style abilities are implemented.

Apparently a Paizo Staff member responded on Reddit and a group of them/the designers got together for a 5th level one shot where they all built their own take on a Kineticist to playthrough it and then compare what they each came up with as their idea of what a Kineticist should be, and then took the best ideas from each for the playtest version.

Okay that sounds pretty awesome. That kind of genesis definitely piques my interest in what they came up with.

Cantrip accuracy and no spell slots to compensate would be a worst case scenario for me

I'm sure this has been asked before but what if they were to get the fighter's proficiency progression but in spell attack rolls (and spell DCs) instead? (Assuming blasts end up being focus cantrips or some such.)

I've always found this to be a curious statement, because they really weren't. Their basic attack was a spell-like ability. They could counterspell at will. Most of their talents and class abilities were adding either improvements to that initial spell or granting even more spells.

I was actually thinking about this before and realised that where PF1 had a distinction between extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities (with spellcasting being its own separate beast), PF2E kind of doesn't have this.

Kineticists went all in on sp and su abilities without necessarily being a caster themselves, but with those not being in PF2E I suppose it depends on what gameplay element has subsumed the role of sp/su abilities. Personally, I think focus spells/cantrips fill this niche now but I can see your point of view.

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw your own edit so, uh, didn't mean to continue debating the point.

I'm the same boat as AnimatedPaper in that most of these arguments are rehashed and there's really not much point in getting into it again since it's coming out Monday (squeeeeeee!!).

Thaaaat being said I really don't get why people think of 1e kineticist as a martial, it definitely seems more magic to me than fighty. But it is a hard thing to determine given how mechanics worked in 1e, so kind of a non argument on either side I guess.

I can't help but feel the majority of people want the class to be martial because of how strong martials are in this edition. But if I have to have runes to determine how powerful the fireball I throw is... That is very silly to me.

The Thaumaturge is magical in the same sense, but isn't a spellcaster. That's is kind of the best way I can explain it for me. Kineticist are magical, but their role wasn't that of a spellcaster.

It would be nice if there was an item to increase accuracy yes. In fact the Legendary Kineticist book had a Kineticist's Diadem magic item that had a free action once a round to give their next Kinetic Blast a status bonus to attack. It is not constant, and has the Concentrate tag, but you also can't use a Kinetic Blast more than once a round anyway since it has the Flourish trait.

Apparently a Paizo Staff member responded on Reddit and a group of them/the designers got together for a 5th level one shot where they all built their own take on a Kineticist to playthrough it and then compare what they each came up with as their idea of what a Kineticist should be, and then took the best ideas from each for the playtest version.

Source?

Ryuujin-sama wrote:

It would be nice if there was an item to increase accuracy yes. In fact the Legendary Kineticist book had a Kineticist's Diadem magic item that had a free action once a round to give their next Kinetic Blast a status bonus to attack. It is not constant, and has the Concentrate tag, but you also can't use a Kinetic Blast more than once a round anyway since it has the Flourish trait.

Apparently a Paizo Staff member responded on Reddit and a group of them/the designers got together for a 5th level one shot where they all built their own take on a Kineticist to playthrough it and then compare what they each came up with as their idea of what a Kineticist should be, and then took the best ideas from each for the playtest version.

Source?

TMG's reddit writeup on the Keynote

As an aside, does anyone know what Stolen Fates is supposed to be about? I saw the big picture with a dragon, a fortune teller, and an army but didn't get a summary.

A peculiar Harrow deck mysteriously finds its way into the hands of the PC's and somehow relates to their alleged stolen destiny, which they are attempting to regain.