I am fine with whatever folks want to do, I'm kind of at the point of just wanting to do it. Tell me where you want me and I'll be there. <3
Tactical options that I am seeing given the current position of tokens - Have Lisi open the cage to Mokele-Mbembe. That will start initiative. Dario can use his free Stride to get into position to fire an alchemical shot at the explosive barrel and then run up towards the battle with the Vrock. The rest of us will attack the Vrock from the other side than Mokele-Mbembe is so that we don't get trampled too much.
Hopefully we can take down the Vrock before too many of the other Cinderclaws arrive. And we will deal with the other Vrock when it shows up. No plan is ever perfect.
Sorry, was afk for a bit. I like the plan. The signal will be a big dinosaur raising heck.
Dinosaur, check!!!
Sounds good to me, Caiten. I'm for it.
Ok. Sounds like you all have a plan. Can someone weigh in on how they think initiative would work in this situation? Lisi goes first in talking to and then releasing the Mokele-Mbembe. Then is he from then on at the top of initiative, or should he then roll to find his position in the ongoing initiative order.
And then I think everyone else (PCs and foes) just rolls based on perception, given that the trigger is noticing the Mokele-Mbembe has been released? I'll give the PCs who are up there poised to attack the vrock a +4 on initiative because they are watching for the signal. Dario only gets a +2 because he will be so far away.
Thoughts?
If you do indeed have a plan, then you all should place yourselves on the map -- only within one of the first two edge squares unless you want to make a stealth roll. And Lisi should do a post describing his opening action, including some general sense of where the vrock is when the cage is opened, because it flies back and forth as Fern's arrow indicates. I think the warg puppies need to stay back at camp because I don't think they are capable of even poor stealthing -- unless I'm missing something, I think there would be a big risk of them vocalizing at some point as the group approached the quarry, especially if Lisi is not with the group.
Ok. Sounds like you all have a plan. Can someone weigh in on how they think initiative would work in this situation? Lisi goes first in talking to and then releasing the Mokele-Mbembe. Then is he from then on at the top of initiative, or should he then roll to find his position in the ongoing initiative order.
And then I think everyone else (PCs and foes) just rolls based on perception, given that the trigger is noticing the Mokele-Mbembe has been released? I'll give the PCs who are up there poised to attack the vrock a +4 on initiative because they are watching for the signal. Dario only gets a +2 because he will be so far away.
Thoughts?
Transition between exploration and encounter is sometimes a bit tricky.
What I recommend would be having Lisi open the cage and the Mokele-Mbembe take one Stride action during exploration mode. Then initiative gets rolled for everyone and can take their actions from there.
Having a bonus to initiative for those who are expecting and eagerly anticipating the signal to start makes sense, but +4 may be a bit much. Incredible Initiative is only a +2 bonus. (In general, the bonus values you expect from PF1 should be cut in half for PF2 because of the 4 degrees of success - compare PF2 Incredible Initiative to PF1 Improved Initiative).
Botting instructions for Oren are pretty simple (he is a barbarian, after all) Turn 1 will see him Rage, then move into battle, preferably flanking. He'll strike if he's still got the actions for it.
Turn 2, he'll attack. Maybe it'll be a Power Attack or a Knockdown if he has flanking or some other advantage making it easier to hit, but he's gonna swing for big damage.
Okay, Catalina will do whatever she's told, basically - I am also in the camp of just wanting to get this started, lol. I'll go with the plan happily.
Where do we want Catalina? She doesn't have alchemical shots like Dario, but she can provide backup to folks.
Knockdown
Ooh. Knockdown is so juicy in general, but especially for flying creatures.
Yeah, the Mauler Archetype has a lot of cool maneuvers for battlefield control. And a good amount of them are tied to an attack too!
If you do indeed have a plan, then you all should place yourselves on the map -- only within one of the first two edge squares unless you want to make a stealth roll.
Positioned. I think that is a valid place to be without making a stealth roll. The first square along the edge is only about half size, so I am not sure if it counts or not.
There is also Sulee's token still on the map. I just put it over in the side.
And yes, probably leave the wargs at base camp. I wouldn't want to risk them with such dangerous enemies.
Sorry - How far is the southern treeline from our camp? Is it to scale?
I don't intend to change the plan. Yasami is FAST.
Caiten, thanks for your comments on initiative. I do find it tricky to know what bonuses to give and I don't intuitively feel the PF2e math (which is more on me for how my brain works than on the system). I guess that +10 to stealth that Fern gave was maybe PF1 math as well! Anyhow, I'm still comfortable with the +4/+2, because the main group really has a good view and are very poised to act. That may be a bit generous, but it makes some sense to me that in this situation you would get more of a bonus than someone who is incredibly fast at responding (incredible initiative) but has no idea something is going to happen. In any event, I appreciate your frankness and certainly feel free to let me know if in the future you think I'm being too stingy. I'll gradually feel my way around the math.
Yasami, the camp is 15 minutes away. I don't think it was very ever clearly spelled out and Fern's evocative description of all night picking suggests proximity, but I don't think you would be able to safely keep camp for a couple days anywhere close to the mine.
Lisi, post your first action at will!
Yeah, the +10 stealth from the rain is a bit excessive. But... *shrugs*.
The big difference in bonus math between PF1 and PF2 is that PF1 only has one boundary, so it often uses +2 bonuses by default - which changes two values of the d20 roll. In PF2 a +1 bonus changes two values of a d20 roll: the fail/success boundary and either the success/crit boundary or the fail/fumble boundary. In cases where there isn't a difference between regular results and exceptional results (there is only the one success/fail boundary) then the higher bonus would make sense. Initiative may very well fall into that realm too - you either beat the opponent's roll or you don't.
That's a very interesting perspective. Makes sense.
It looks like I may have been confused about the plan. So, it's Yasami who is blowing the barrel rather than Dario? In that event, she's the one who gets +2 rather than +4 on initiative. She will at that point be far on the bottom of the map while the rest of the group will be higher up. Yasami, just remember the jungle is difficult terrain so it will be slower to rejoin the group if you try to go through the jungle rather than running across the battlefield. It looks like she's fast so she could cover a lot of ground with three strides on non-difficult terrain.
I wasn't sure who should blow the barrel--I just figured Yasami had good stealth. :)
Voomer, do I need to burn a spell (Wood Shape) to open the cage, or is it just a latch?
Oh I wanted Dario to go ham on the flying vrock instead of Yasami, so I will start the fire and run to the rest. Possibly through the trees, but we will see.
Regarding the map, I have removed Joran and the puppies. Yasami should position herself down near the bunkhouse. Presumably Cev wants to be with the main group. I have moved Sulee next to Caiten and Guba next to Lisi (but my understanding is the familiars are actually ON those PCs at the moment).
Moved.
I have moved Sulee next to Caiten ... but my understanding is the familiars are actually ON those PCs at the moment.
Correct. Sulee is currently tattoo transformed. If you want to toggle Sulee's visibility off, that would work. Or we could just move the token somewhere out of the way.
Soooooo Voomer...
What rolls do I need to make to um...RIDE the mokele-mbembe?
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I'll get back to you on that!
So far you've opened the cage reasonably quietly and convinced it to go after the vrock, at least initially. But you still need to let me know where the vrock was when you opened the cage, since you get to time that.
From my rules search: Mounted Combat rules, the Mount action, Command an Animal to get it to do things such as let you mount it (if it isn't already friendly enough) or guide where it goes, and Additional Mounted Combat guidance from the Gamemastery Guide.
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So, it probably comes as no surprise that there's no RAW on mounting and riding an untrained wild dinosaur without a saddle or bridle. Most of the info I could find is feats for doing a mounted build. What I'm thinking is another DC 27 command animal roll to let you try to get on its back, this time at +2. No extra time is needed for that (or for the mounting); just the roll. Then you need to do a command animal action (DC 27, no bonus) anytime you want to tell it what to do (which is always the case for mounts, except for a move with the ride feat). If you fail, it does what it wants (initially go after the vrock as you already convinced it; if the vrock is unreachable or defeated, probably eat cultists until it decides to leave the area, unless a PC gets in the way).
The trickier part is making up rules for staying on. What I'm thinking is that you'll be flat footed (distracting situation) and you need to use an action each turn to stay on. And every so often (I'm not sure yet what makes sense, but not every turn) it will make a move or get annoyed in a way that requires you to make a DC 26 (level based) reflex save to stay on. That's sort of like the buck reaction some mounted monsters have. Certainly a critical fail on command animal would require that save, but some other situations could as well.
So, it's unlikely you'd manage to stay up there the whole time, but there is a decent shot of at least a few moments of glory...
I'm open to listening to thoughts you or others have. I do think we are in the making sh*t up terrain here...
What are my options for the vrock positioning? Does it stay 15' in the air and do an aerial sentry loop? I'm weighing the options between "closest" (attack!!!) and "furthest" (chaaarge!)
Damn, those sound like tough rolls...I will think about it. :)
TALLY HO, M_________S!
Nicely done! Yes, you're done with actions for now. The dinosaur will take a single stride towards the vrock and I will roll initiative for everyone (which will take some time to get posted!).
Regarding the vrock's location, yes it stays 15 feet in the air and it actually is circling the whole mine in a big circle, given the other vrock's absence. Lisi times it so that he isn't messing with the cage at the moment when the vrock is overhead but otherwise it's basically up to you where the vrock is when you open the cage -- I guess as long as it isn't on the top quarter of the map because then the vrock would probably notice you at the cage. And if folks need to re-position themselves based on what you decide that's fine because y'all worked this out in advance.
I guess more southerly so the mokele-mbembe can charge at the vrock, and then the cultists around the fire.
I moved the icon on roll20. Is that the spot or do you want further south? If so, how many squares further south? And, like I said, the others may want to adjust their locations in response.
I made the familiar tokens invisible on the understanding they are on the PCs' bodies right now, but I can put them back on the map as needed.
Looks good to me!
Guba and the warglets are sitting this out for now. :) Sulee is a tattoo, I think?
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Folks, I'm out in the high desert on 2/18 and 2/19. Back for fun on the 20th.
Voomer, Lisi's next actions will be to cast Feather Fall, and then Fireball on the vrock.
How can you cast feather fall if no one is falling (since it's a reaction) and why would you want to, given that it can be cast as a reaction?
I will say in general that I'm not a huge fan of botting, so I definitely hope folks will remember to check periodically and post, especially once we are really in combat. Of course I understand people have periods of unavailability!
I guess what would make botting really work for me is if everyone has an actual bot block that I can copy and paste as your action. I don't want to be studying your sheets and having something I can cut and paste with all the formatting to execute rolls would be a huge time saver.
And if folks can put that bot block under a spoiler tag like Lisi has for other stuff in his name block, that would really be ideal!
I leave on a trip tomorrow but I hope to be able to post because I will be on vacation and have my computer.
Probably I can't post tomorrow because it's a travel day but I hope to have initiative up tonight.
Sorry for the very gradual start up...
oh...right...good point. I can't precast Feather Fall. Firefall, er ball, it is. :D
Hello, I will be around again - I had a friend over for a few days and have been very busy and unable to get to my computer reliably. My apologies. I am writing a post now. <3
Or, well, I will write a post when I am up for initiative <3 lol
So is the plan to wait for the enemies to come to us, then spring the trap on them? Because if that's the case, Oren can't really do much beyond wait this round. Ranged attacks are not the Barbarian specialty.
Tactics are a lot more important in this edition than in previous ones. I think we have all noticed that already. I don't want to feel like I am back-seat-driving other players though.
Melee range is going to happen in short order, but if we can get the Vrock to have to spend at least a couple of its actions on its first turn on Stride, that is going to be of value.
Doesn't Oren have some spellcasting item that works at range?
Just delay, intimidate, take cover, etc.
Or, we rename the maul to Throwhammer, and have some fun with it.
Oren can always delay and move himself to whatever point in initiative he wants. If that's what you want to do, let me know and I'll post for the vrock and boggards and you can let me know now or later when Oren wants to act.
You all have had a ton of in game time to plan the start of this combat, so feel free to give suggestions in either the discussion thread or in character in gameplay thread. For developments in the heat of combat, my preference is for suggestions to be shouted out in character in the gameplay thread. But I'm certainly very happy for you all to speak to each other in that way and I think it's interesting for role playing.
Oren will delay.
Sooooooooooooo this would be one of those places, looking back, where Fern would have botted Cev's Glimpse of Redemption, and hopefully, it would have really messed with the Vrock. Not sure if we can chronomance that into effect here, but it would be cool if we could.
You two are too far from each other, I think.
Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, life has taken a sudden turn for me and RL requires my direct attention. I do apologize for leaving amidst combat but it cannot be helped. Feel free to bot me as needed. I wish you all the best, take care.
Hope to have you return soon, Dario!
oh shoot! I am le damaged! Any chance the vrock missed cuz I am Tiny currently?
oh shoot! I am le damaged! Any chance the vrock missed cuz I am Tiny currently?
No that would not make a difference, but what did I miss about you becoming tiny?
Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, life has taken a sudden turn for me and RL requires my direct attention. I do apologize for leaving amidst combat but it cannot be helped. Feel free to bot me as needed. I wish you all the best, take care.
I hope everything is ok! Take the time you need. I'm assuming this just means you need to take a break, or are you saying you need to drop out?
Does anyone know his botting instructions or want to write some up for him? I don't think he posted them anywhere...
Does anyone know his botting instructions or want to write some up for him? I don't think he posted them anywhere...
Shoot as often as possible using Running Reload and Risky Reload. He also likes to get into melee and use Reloading Strike and Drifter's Juke.