DM Voomer's Age of Ashes

Game Master Voomer

You know, I read Coerce and yet, I'm still thinking he gets to roll a Will save. Man I'm having a hard time keeping the two systems apart. I'm thinking to myself: "Man I sure hope he doesn't roll an awesome save." :P

I just saw "Will" and I mentally went straight to: "Will save".

So I guess it boils down to how good his Will DC is. So weird. "Will DC". Does make it a lot simpler though.

His Will DC is his Will Save modifier plus 10. I'm assuming that he doesn't have a Will Save of +14, which means that it's at least a success.

Cev, you haven't answered my question, were you attempting to coerce, then, or intimidate?

Joran did respond, he told everyone to wait. I couldn't be more specific about your rolls until I know if you wanted a reply or a debuff.

DM Fern wrote:

Cev, you opened your holy symbol, then rolled diplomacy and intimidate... what are you trying for, exactly? Casting Command? Coercing him? Demoralizing him?

Was opening the Holy Symbol to be ready ... in case the spell needed to be cast. But first, as a good cleric, I thought Cev would try to be reasonable.

My bad, I guess, I thought this was an answer.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ID=7

and given that the character is Trained, I guess technically it was Change Attitude

But that answers the question, thank you.

I was missing that you needed more in my answer.
Sorry I missed it.

So in this game there are actions that you use the skills for.

Diplomacy

Intimidate

You don't just roll the skill, you do an action with the skill. Changing attitudes isn't an action its's a description of the levels.

So in this game there are actions that you use the skills for.

Diplomacy

Intimidate

You don't just roll the skill, you do an action with the skill. Changing attitudes isn't an action its's a description of the levels.

Appreciate the clarification - this would have been super helpful when my response wasn't aligned to what you needed, but at this point whatever was intended isn't going to be impactful, which is too bad. I wasn't kidding earlier, I did put a lot into the post. Sorry.

Will post in gameplay in a while, mid irl DnD atm (lol) and no time for a longer post.

Will post in gameplay in a while, mid irl DnD atm (lol) and no time for a longer post.

No worries :)

[ and if it's Witchlight, tell them to grow up ;) ]

Coerce is actually a bit more involved if you look at it. It seems to be a real nichey type skill action considering you have to spend at least 1 minute in conversation with whoever you're trying to coerce.

Dario standing at the door with his guns.

Yeah, the game devs pretty much got rid of all of the opposed rolls. They instead use roll vs DC for everything. The only opposed roll that I can think of that is still left is initiative. Well, and any mini-games like the arm wrestling challenge at the beginning of this campaign.

Will post in gameplay in a while, mid irl DnD atm (lol) and no time for a longer post.

Hah. You too.

Dario standing at the door with his guns.

HA! Good one. :)

Yeah, the game devs pretty much got rid of all of the opposed rolls. They instead use roll vs DC for everything. The only opposed roll that I can think of that is still left is initiative. Well, and any mini-games like the arm wrestling challenge at the beginning of this campaign.

And that's what I have to remember to keep straight. Like I said, it really does simplify things a great deal. It just feels easier. Pretty cool.

His Will DC is his Will Save modifier plus 10. I'm assuming that he doesn't have a Will Save of +14, which means that it's at least a success.

Yeah let's hope so. Otherwise, this dude is way badder to the bone than I thought. :P

The ethics of knocking out the halfling.

I'm bad at remembering to grant hero points -- your supposed to earn one per session in addition to doing cool stuff, and this seems like a good milestone since we don't use sessions. Everyone gets one hero point, remember they have a cap of three so if you haven't used any you stay at three.

Any reply from the wolfie sisters?

And I am confused. Is there any way up to the next level that doesn't involve climbing? I don't think wargs can climb.

Any reply from the wolfie sisters?

There is, but it is rather recent and combined with other information.

@fern - Are people in Breachill opposed to having goblins living with them? I have Breachill lore, so I should be able to tell. My post in the gameplay thread will be based on that information.

I am asking since it is a secret check. Thank you!

@fern - Are people in Breachill opposed to having goblins living with them? I have Breachill lore, so I should be able to tell. My post in the gameplay thread will be based on that information.

I am asking since it is a secret check. Thank you!

Yeah that's a good question. The ONLY reason I wouldn't think so would simply be due to Warbal. But she is just one goblin. One may be more acceptable than a dozen or so.

Are we allowed to get any data on this before we do it?
Do we even have a number of goblins? Is it only the tokens on the battlements or are there more of them somewhere?

Warbal specifically told us her people are survivors. She told us she didn't care if their rescue happened immediately or if it took us a couple days because she knew that they would be fine in that time. So why would we think they wouldn't be fine for a few hours?

As far as Joran is concerned, it's not really about them being fine, it's about them being comfortable enough to trust us and tell us whatever it is they're afraid to tell us. Not really a safety issue with him.

He just figures if Warbal is there to give them peace about it, they'll talk. That way, they'll no longer have to wonder if we'll betray them if Warbal puts in a good word for us.

If they'll talk right now all the better. You just figure they'd feel a little more at ease if Warbal is there.

I think Lisi is the one with the hat. Maybe if he hands that over to them, they will talk and it's no longer an issue. We can leave them be and move on.

Are we allowed to get any data on this before we do it?

Well, we can always ask. Fern doesn't have to tell us anything - though indication of negative response is useful. That is a bit harder to do over PBP than in person. In person, if we ask about something or do something and the GM doesn't react, then we know our actions or request didn't work or didn't cause any effect. Here it may just be that the GM hasn't seen the post yet.

As far as Joran is concerned, it's not really about them being fine, it's about them being comfortable enough to trust us and tell us whatever it is theyAs far as Joran is concerned, it's not really about them being fine, it's about them being comfortable enough to trust us and tell us whatever it is they're afraid to tell us. Not really a safety issue with him.'re afraid to tell us. Not really a safety issue with him.

Heh. With Caiten it is the other way around. He is interested in the safety of the Goblins, but doesn't care if they tell him anything or not. Should be interesting.

@fern - Are people in Breachill opposed to having goblins living with them? I have Breachill lore, so I should be able to tell. My post in the gameplay thread will be based on that information.

I am asking since it is a secret check. Thank you!

Those of you from Breachill would have a vague notion that it would probably be okay, albeit with some potential awkwardness or growing pains as folks adjust. Goblins being crazy little balls of chaos and all. =)

Hey, every town has a shanty area. :P Ideally put 'em near the river with few flammable things near them?

(ahem, I am reflecting Breachill's morality, not my own!)

(...now I'm picturing Breachill's NextDoor page...)

His Will DC is his Will Save modifier plus 10. I'm assuming that he doesn't have a Will Save of +14, which means that it's at least a success.

I have been pondering this for a while. I don't think this is a set number. Aren't they opposed rolls?

As in, Oren rolls his intimidate (in this case d20+3), then Calmont rolls an opposed check (d20 + whatever his bonus to will saves is).

Then, the two numbers are compared against each other for 4 degrees of success. Or am I getting this wrong?

Suppose that Calmont has a will save of +4 listed in his statblock. Does that mean the PC is always to beat 14? Do saving throws work like AC in this edition? If your result matches (or is above) the DC (in this given case, 14+), you succeed?

I feel if that were the case the NPC/monster stat blocks would look differently. Taking an example stat block from Aapoph Serpentfolk

If it is always +10, why not just put it down like this?

Doesn't make sense to me. I was looking at saving throw stuff, but found nothing to back this up. Can someone link me to it?

Here you go, Yasami.

Original Defenses Line:

AC 18; Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +6 (+2 status vs. mental)
If it is always +10, why not just put it down like this?

You still roll them against something like an spell's DC. There is always one side rolling, one side having a DC to meet. If a wizard cast a fireball at the serpentfolk, they'd roll +7 to dodge the spell's DC. If Joran was intimidating them, he'd roll vs their Will DC.

Sweet, thanks.

"But let's begin with what we know about currently and can take care of in short order. Joran, if you are going to bind Calmont, do so. His continued freedom is making me nervous."

I already mentioned tying his hands. I said, "Let's tie his hands and start back".

BUT, I didn't technically say I was tying his hands. So in that regard I can see where your coming from. I guess with that being said I kind of figured I had already done so.

Outside of that, once we've determined what the goblins are going to do, I'm ready to return to town. I'm ready to rid ourselves of Calmont. :)

@Javell, my apologies. I am definitely not meaning to be rude. Wording things is not something that I am good at. I have plenty of stories of problems caused by bad wording - both over text and IRL.

So yeah. Calling me out on that is actually appreciated. Somewhat surprisingly. I'll keep in mind to not phrase things as direct orders.

Oh, and for anyone reading this later and being slightly confused, I edited my post to try and be a bit less forceful. ;-)

Hey, no worries. I figured it wasn't meant as I was taking it. I've learned a lot over my time on these boards how what is written can be easily misunderstood.

All good, bud. Thanks for clarifying.

For tying Calmont up, he'd roll against the Thievery DC of the one tying him up. Link.

Well with this being the case, I think it's a good thing Joran DIDN'T specify he tied him up. :P

I would highly suggest somebody with Thievery to do it.

It's either that or Joran/Oren can grab him and carry him the whole way. Grabbing is an Athletics DC and me and Oren have the same modifier.

Being a halfling, though, he's probably got a good Escape check. I'm fairly certain it's Dex based so we're gonna have to hope for a bad roll.

It says he can use Acrobatics in place of his unarmed attack mod. I think it's a no-brainer he'd go with Acrobatics.

Gonna be interesting either way.

In that case, Yasami would be slightly better at it than I would. But let's kick down this next door. Even though there isn't an actual door in this case.

DM Fern wrote:

For tying Calmont up, he'd roll against the Thievery DC of the one tying him up. Link.

Well with this being the case, I think it's a good thing Joran DIDN'T specify he tied him up. :P

I would highly suggest somebody with Thievery to do it.

It's either that or Joran/Oren can grab him and carry him the whole way. Grabbing is an Athletics DC and me and Oren have the same modifier.

Being a halfling, though, he's probably got a good Escape check. I'm fairly certain it's Dex based so we're gonna have to hope for a bad roll.

It says he can use Acrobatics in place of his unarmed attack mod. I think it's a no-brainer he'd go with Acrobatics.

Gonna be interesting either way.

So then while he is being tied, can Cevendyl cast Command to tell him to "lie still", which would mean he would lay there for the duration of the tieing, and then have to make almost impossible untie attempts the whole way back to town?

Man if you can 'Command' him that would be AWESOME. And if it would last all the way back to town, then that would even be MORE awesome.

LOL It lasts for the turn ... but that is enough I think for us to get him to a compromised state, so that his next save would be against the ropes (and the result of the tieing roll)

Joran, on the other hand, is also a barbarian. Shouldn't he have a left-hook or something that can put Calmont into sleepytime? For at least several minutes?

OR

We could tie up Calmont, throw him in the corner of the tower, and leave him there. AND "hire" the tribe to watch the door for a little bit. AND ask the girls to please bite the small dirty prey if it opens the door while we are away ...

... and go explore the castle some more.

Wow, 20 posts while I slept.

Thread is moving at the speed of light.

Just a lot of back and forth yakking for the most part. Nothing critical by any stretch.

It won't continue. A more "normal" posting rate will prevail.

Not complaining, I am actually enjoying the banter.

I'm assuming that we relieved Calmont of his dagger and whatever else he had when Dario was tying him up, but do we have a list of what was on him?

Good question! You relieve him of: a fairly standard-looking dagger, leather armor (it's pretty ripe if you choose to leave it on him, and sized for a halfling to boot), two lesser healing potions, a well-made shortbow (with 20 arrows), and thieves’ tools.

Are you guys planning to retrace your path out of the citadel? Or poke into any unopened doors along the way looking for a shortcut?

My plan is to go through that small unexplored section. It should connect back to the front gate fairly quickly. I'm not expecting much to be there, but I could be surprised. Staying on guard just in case, of course.

Per the halfling: Joran has one of his daggers in his boot. The one Calmont dropped. The potions we could definitely use and maybe one of you others could snag those thieves' tools.

I REALLY wouldn't mind checking out said unexplored section, but with Oren carrying Calmont, maybe we should stick to the same path? But if there really is nothing we run into and it is faster, Joran's all about faster. I know, it's a gamble.

I still want to clear this whole place out though. We just got to. :)

If Oren puts Calmont down if we do run into combat, that would most definitely give him a reason to escape(at least in my mind. It's what I'd do). :P And that's the LAST thing Joran wants to have happen.

You know, whatever y'all want to do as a whole, though, works for me. I'm never going to have an issue with exploring unexplored areas. Like... never. :)
My only concern is Oren not being able to fight and/or the prospect of him having to put Calmont down if he does.

He can just club things using the halfling as an improvised weapon.

Per the halfling: Joran has one of his daggers in his boot. The one Calmont dropped. The potions we could definitely use and maybe one of you others could snag those thieves' tools.

I REALLY wouldn't mind checking out said unexplored section, but with Oren carrying Calmont, maybe we should stick to the same path? But if there really is nothing we run into and it is faster, Joran's all about faster. I know, it's a gamble.

I still want to clear this whole place out though. We just got to. :)

If Oren puts Calmont down if we do run into combat, that would most definitely give him a reason to escape(at least in my mind. It's what I'd do). :P And that's the LAST thing Joran wants to have happen.

You know, whatever y'all want to do as a whole, though, works for me. I'm never going to have an issue with exploring unexplored areas. Like... never. :)
My only concern is Oren not being able to fight and/or the prospect of him having to put Calmont down if he does.

We're already coming back to the citadel once we deposit Calmont, I can't imagine that we won't explore every room just to clear out any beasties that don't belong in this part of the world. But if we run into an encounter between here and the town, Oren'll just make sure to give Calmont a good punch to knock him out before he puts him down.

Are you guys planning to retrace your path out of the citadel? Or poke into any unopened doors along the way looking for a shortcut?

I'm in favor of playing it safe and going back the way we came.

I'm in favor of playing it safe and going back the way we came.

I'm fine with that too. A bit of a longer walk isn't going to be a problem.

If you could mention that to Caiten as he is walking across the courtyard, that would be fantastic.