I just realized that I should have made Reflex saves for Thatch since he was technically in the swarm as well. Ah well, you guys reap the rewards of my forgetfulness.
Just an FYI. I have a short trip planned for 3/31 to 4/2. I won't have my computer but I will have my phone, so I can probably still make short posts.
Ah. My bad; I didn't realize that that was a thing.
On the summoning tangent: it's from the distinction between summoning and calling, if you summoned a devil (or something similar) they weren't killed cause they weren't actually on the material plane. If you called them, either through a ritual, a gate spell, or something similar (like if they cast plane shift themselves to actually transit) then they really were there and could be killed for real. I think for the most part that's still the case since now summoning spells don't summon the real thing but are sort of the "concept" of the creature you've summoned instead.
That way, you don't have to feel bad about clearing a hallway of traps by sending summoned horses ahead of you to set them all off, since nothing is actually dying. Also solves the problem of where you summoned those horses from.
"...Beside, according to my understanding of Hell lore, devils don't actually die on the Material Plane but are banished back to Hell to continue their cycle of evil for eternity. Your pleas are unconvincing. I will not make a deal with a devil nor will I release an evil creature into the city."
Planar Adventures pg. 67: “Ultimately, though, the fate of the vast majority of outsiders is the same as that of petitioners. Though sacrifice or violence, all such beings are eventually destroyed. At that point, their signature quintessence is released to contribute to the power of their home planes.”
Planar Adventures pg. 68: “Upon an outsider’s destruction…its quintessence returns to its home plane. This transference of energies might be an immediate or a gradual process, depending on where the being’s existence ended…While such energy gravitates toward the properly aligned plane, more often than not it becomes lost in the Maelstrom. In the cases when an outsider’s existence ends on a plane of matching alignment, its quintessence infuses the plane in a manner similar to corpses on the Material Plane returning their nutrients to the soil. In this way, the plane is supplied with new quintessence, along with new ideas and beliefs from the evolving multiplanar zeitgeist.
“At the same time that the Outer Planes are growing in this manner, they’re also being consumed. The Maelstrom endlessly erodes the shores of other planes, breaking off quintessence by minute grains and vast bergs. This unfettered quintessence gradually drifts away, joining the eternal storm that is the Maelstrom. Like a great stomach, the Maelstrom then breaks down quintessence, shattering bonds, scouring residual memories, and purifying the essence of the Outer Planes back into unaligned potentiality. This insubstantial, purified quintessence follows the reckless courses of the Maelstrom to a nexus within that realm, a column of shimmering energy known as the Antipode. Guarded by legions of aeons, this focal point collects the unaligned spiritual potentiality of the Outer Planes and sends it streaming back out into the Inner Planes, where it accumulates within the Positive Energy Plane like the grains of sand around which pearls form.
“Imbued with the fundamentals of life but no philosophical alignment or predisposition, this potentiality starts the cycle anew. Through this course, the wills of mortals indirectly renovate and reshape the multiverse.”
(This is from a 1e book and not a 2e book, but the vast majority of stuff within the book itself is related to Golarion lore rather than game mechanics, so its usage in this context is still valid. The only thing that translates poorly between editions is the usage of the word “outsider,” which broadly means “a creature whose body (rather than just their soul) is made up of quintessenence.” “Outsider” was removed from 2e due to its vast usage and lack of proper distinction in 1e. Similarly, Planar Adventures was the last 1e hardcover book, so by this point Paizo had a good hold on the lore of their setting, thus if what I say here contradicts lore they gave in an earlier book, then I’d stand by what is in Planar Adventures due to Paizo having a better understanding of their setting by this point.)
TL; DR Vitalis’s statement isn’t flat-out wrong, but it’s also not 100% correct. A devil that is killed is still killed, it’s just what “death” in this context means that makes it confusing. Though, I definitely did not expect Vitalis (the character) to know this, so this can easily be explained away by Vitalis just not properly understanding how the Cycle of Souls works, or just, you know, being plain incorrect in his understanding.
Maybe the Golarian outsider information is slightly different than what I remember. My understanding was that any outsiders that are killed on the Material Plane are simply banished back to whatever plane they came from. This is sometimes accompanied by a required number of years before they can return to the Material Plane but they otherwise remains the same. The only way for the outsider to truly die was to be killed on their home plane or if they were fully physically on the Material Plane by traveling through a portal or something similar. This is my understanding of it at least.
I thought this was basic outsider knowledge. But I’m fine with whatever you want Vitalis to be able to know. Makes little difference to me. That’s why I asked.
Maybe I’m thinking of Forgotten Realms. I didn’t realize they were much different. Shrug.
Anyways, Vitalis is still for killing the devil. Smiting evil is paladin 101. But I’ll go with the consensus, if others want to destroy the contract or whatever.
Sorry for the delayed post - I've had a couple of busy days with work. On top of that, we finished book 1 of the Starfinder AP I'm running at home (The Threefold Conspiracy) and launched immediately into book 2 - it's my first SF adventure path, and I was really surprised how quickly the book went. No spoilers if you have played or read it, please - Rigel/Stargazer is one of my players.
Jisara, that's my understanding of the summoning/calling distinction in 1E as well; it's pretty clear from Magic chapter of the Core Rulebook. But I can't find anything in the 2E CRB that says that summoning spells don't transport the actual creature. I don't doubt you're correct, and it would be consistent with what James Jacobs said back in 2015, but if you have a chance to post what you're referring to, I'd be interested for future reference (my 1E PFS wizards tended to summon frequently, and I'll probably play the same way in 2E).
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again. When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn.
Summoned creatures can be banished by various spells and effects. They are automatically banished if reduced to 0 Hit Points or if the spell that called them ends.
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This post from Jacobs is from October 2020, so much more recent, and it's still consistent about how summoned creatures aren't "real."
This post from Jacobs is from October 2020, so much more recent, and it's still consistent about how summoned creatures aren't "real."
Perfect, thanks!
I guess I'm not the only one whose copy of Bestiary 3 for 2E arrived in today's mail!
Also, Jisara: Oy vey.
I guess I'm not the only one whose copy of Bestiary 3 for 2E arrived in today's mail!
I actually got mine about a week ago.
Correct
Jisara and I have been dealing with a castle full of the little b%#*+^!s in another pbp AP (PF1) for weeks now.
Jisara and I have been dealing with a castle full of the little b%#*+^!s in another pbp AP (PF1) for weeks now.
Ah, yes, the Palace of Teeth. Watch out for Scruffy and Skritcher!
I do have to say, though, that tooth fairies are by far my favorite low-level mook, and I'm glad they came back in Bestiary 3.
I too like this creature. In the Ironfang Invasion adventure path, there is a horrifying CR 16 tooth fairy swarm.
The Bestiary 3 came along just in time, then!
And no worries, figured I'd shoot my shot on seeing whether my hex could be useful here. Just in case I broke out the bonus from the total so it was easy to account for.
The Bestiary 3 came along just in time, then!
You say that like this event coinciding with Bestiary 3's release was by happenstance.
I'm really sorry about the disappearing act, everyone. Got my second dose last Wednesday, and it took me out. I had just incredible fatigue and wound up sleeping through almost my entire weekend. Was so tired I could barely even focus my eyes to read things.
Sorry for no post yesterday, I will put one up later today. Don't worry about moving on, I'll make a retroactive RP post if necessary. Jisara definitely has some feelings about this.
I’ll be honest, the reason for my lack of posting recently is twofold threefold: 1) I’m honestly waiting in anticipation for Jisara’s reaction to what y’all found in the tooth fairy den, 2) a massive update to a video game that I love came out recently and I’ve been playing that, and as a result my special interest in Pathfinder has diminished slightly in favor of my special interest for this game (I use “special interest” in a very specific context; I am on the autism spectrum and “special interest” is a specific term for those on the spectrum).
My interest in Pathfinder hasn’t diminished to the point where I don’t feel joy in playing or anything, it’s just that there’s a bit of an ebb and flow in my special interests right now.
EDIT: 3) I'm also giving you guys the chance to roleplay right now because this is actually a good time to gage PC reactions to something like this.
Sorry to hold things up, but I appreciate the patience. The post took a lot of effort to write and my life kept refusing to let me sit down and work on it.
And yeah, Xavier, I totally feel you on that. I'm also autistic and can get pretty obsessive about my own special interests.
I can't find a description of the Virtuoso Pan Flute from our treasure list anywhere. Is there there a link to a description somewhere? Is it a Pipe of the Sewers or something different?
Most likely it's a virtuoso instrument, which gives a +1 item bonus to Performance checks that use it.
Oh that makes sense.
Most likely it's a virtuoso instrument, which gives a +1 item bonus to Performance checks that use it.
That is correct.
And please make a post saying that you've gone through the inventory sheet for this purpose so that I know when to start doing spreadsheet manipulation stuff.
How should we handle items with multiple quantities divided between more than one of us. Like the silver raven figurines and the healing potions?
Also what if we want to keep an item but not necessarily carry it. We could store it in the base. Would we leave the 'sell' box blank and the 'carried by' box blank?
Someone with the heal spell should make use of the heal wand we have.
If someone like Chance wants the flute, they can take it, otherwise it's worth a lot to sell.
I've gone through the treasure sheet.
I don't have a use for any of the unclaimed loot. I am hanging on to the ornate rings, though, because I feel like they'll come in handy someday.
Stargazer is the only person in the party who can use the wand of heal, since none of the rest of us have it on their spell lists. Obviously, this changes if somebody picks up Trick Magic Item somewhere along the line. Same thing goes for the scroll of remove disease.
The scrolls of restore senses and undetectable alignment can be used by either Stargazer or Chance, but nobody can currently make use of the scroll of pass without trace, as it's a Primal only spell. Undetectable alignment is notable for being Uncommon, which means you'll have to Learn it before you can add it to your repertoires.
The whip is kinda neat, and can be used by Vitalis or Chance, but there's nothing special about it beyond its weapon traits.
Thanks for doing the work to running down which spell lists the scrolls are on, Jisara. I think we should sell the scroll of pass without trace and keep the rest (and the wand of heal, of course).
Chance will take the whip if Vitalis doesn't want it. Much as he would be interested in the virtuoso pan flute, it's one of the most valuable items we have found. Are we better off as a group selling it and using the cash?
Yes, thank you, Jisara. I agree with selling the pass without trace spell.
I don't want the whip, so Chance can have it. And if Chance will use the pipes, I'm okay with him taking them too. You'd get the full value out of it, rather than the party getting half selling it.
It hasn't come up much yet, but Vitalis also plays instruments. He has a harp on him. But it's more for roleplaying. He doesn't need a high quality instrument any time soon.
Well, in the long run, the +1 bonus to Performance checks will improve your earning potential with Earn Income. I'd run the numbers to see how long that would take to work out in our favor vs just selling it but I don't want to, lol. :P
As an aside, Chance, you're also able to use the scroll of misdirection. Thatch has Learned it so I can prepare it once I have 2nd level slots, but it's on your list so you could just have it if you want.
How should we handle items with multiple quantities divided between more than one of us. Like the silver raven figurines and the healing potions?
Also what if we want to keep an item but not necessarily carry it. We could store it in the base. Would we leave the 'sell' box blank and the 'carried by' box blank?
In all honesty I was mostly just going to handwave it, but if you wanna go into that level of detail then I’d say just to put something in the comments section.
Hmmm. A +1 bonus is the same as the increase in the skill check DC for a task one level higher (except that every fourth level, the Earn Income DC increases by 2 instead). I think Chance will increase his Perform skill to expert at level 5 (he'll increase Occultism at level 3). Between levels 2 and 5, the payment increase per level for successfully completing a task in which you are trained is 2sp; the increase between levels 5 and 6 is 6sp, then drops to 5sp/level through level 9.
It could take a while to make up the 25gp difference between what we would get from selling it and what it would cost to buy one new just from Earn Income - ignoring the potential for critical successes, it would be more than 50 days of Downtime to get there (assuming that most tasks would be less than level 6). But considering that Perform is the skill Chance uses to Earn Income every time, it's almost guaranteed that he will make it up eventually, especially once he hits level 5 and the difference increases. There is also the possibility that he'll use Perform for something other than earning income; I think he has already used it in encounters a few times.
TL;DR: if there's no objection, I think it's worth keeping, along with the whip. Additional shopping; Chance buys a flask of antitoxin, in case the Red Jills like poison.
Hero Points have reset; Jisara gets an extra Hero Point as mentioned previously
Right now I'm just waiting on Rigel to check in saying that he went through the inventory sheet.
I went through the sheet and I think that the only thing I need is the wand of heal. I haven't been that diligent about the rest of Rigel's finances before this, so I need to add all of it up, but once I do I should be good.
Stargazer, you should probably also take the scrolls of restore senses, remove disease, and undetectable alignment, unless you want Chance to take either of the two that he can cast so you aren’t responsible for handling all of them.
I would like to buy a hat of disguise and a scroll of hideous laughter for a total of 42 gp. That leaves me with 11.29 gp.
Yay!
Each PC gets 2 pp, 7 sp, and 5 cp from that sale. Inventory Updated Please make a note of anything you wish to buy during that time that you were selling stuff.
I purchased full plate for 30 gp.
I then traded back in my breastplate (+4 gp) and gauntlet (+1 sp).Character sheet is updated.
Each PC gets 2 pp, 7 sp, and 5 cp from that sale. Inventory Updated Please make a note of anything you wish to buy during that time that you were selling stuff.I purchased full plate for 30 gp.
I then traded back in my breastplate (+4 gp) and gauntlet (+1 sp).Character sheet is updated.
Minor request: in your hotbar thing that has your stats and stuff, could you put "+7 vs AoE" or something similar in the parenthetical next to your Reflex bonus? It's just so I don't constantly have to look at it and go "Huh? Oh yeah, bulwark."
Done
Stargazer, you should probably also take the scrolls of restore senses, remove disease, and undetectable alignment, unless you want Chance to take either of the two that he can cast so you aren’t responsible for handling all of them.
I can take the scrolls.
I also bought a scroll of heal, a scroll of fear, 2 antidotes, 2 Cheetah's elixir, and an antiplague.
In addition to the antitoxin, Chance buys a disguise kit. Statblock updated (no changes to tagline necessary).
Also, I'm going to be busier than usual at work through June 1. I should still be able to post daily, but if I miss a day that's why.
“It’s a hard knock life
In Kintargo
Instead of revels
We get devils
Instead of safe streets
We get Jills...”
Those lyrics don’t even work with the rhythm of the song!
“It’s a hard knock life
In Kintargo
Instead of revels
We get devils
Instead of safe streets
We get Jills...”Those lyrics don’t even work with the rhythm of the song!
I was tired!
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I'm not sure about the wizard or demon theory, though.
a grey-skinned humanoid with pure white eyes, crimson hair, and a scar across her face, not to mention the newcomer’s feathery wings with a span of at least 15 feet!
The boss flicks her wrist as a mass of flame suddenly manifests and flies straight toward Stargazer!
It's a demon and a wizard! Who's laughing now? =P
I'm not even mad, that's impressive.
[ooc]... Do not worry about doing things such as Gathering Rumors, by the way, as I’ll tell you from a metagaming perspective that you won’t get much more benefit for doing so until after Book 1 ends....
Sorry - Mr. Literal here read this as “Do not worry about ... Gathering Rumors,” skipping the “things such as” part. I went with Spread Disinformation to try to knock our Notoriety back down after we gained another point from defeating the Red Jills, but it’s fine if Chance wasted the first two days of Downtime.
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[ooc]... Do not worry about doing things such as Gathering Rumors, by the way, as I’ll tell you from a metagaming perspective that you won’t get much more benefit for doing so until after Book 1 ends....Sorry - Mr. Literal here read this as “Do not worry about ... Gathering Rumors,” skipping the “things such as” part. I went with Spread Disinformation to try to knock our Notoriety back down after we gained another point from defeating the Red Jills, but it’s fine if Chance wasted the first two days of Downtime.
I'll be honest, I don't know why I said "such as," I was mostly telling you guys not to bother with Gathering Rumors; other rebellion activities are good to do.
Apologies, GM, that question was more directed at the group.
It's currently in the inventory sheet, so the "splitting" part hasn't occurred yet; I was going to split it once someone goes to sell stuff (which uses a day of downtime from someone).
Vitalis took a day to sell for the party in my previous post.
There are two +1 potency runes that people should take advantage of. I already have one, so someone else should get these next ones.
Everything else looks like we should sell.
Unless you want to be noble and try to return the stolen goods to their owners. But logistically, that's probably impossible.