Anyone else keep getting logged out of the site? It’s aggravating because I can’t see new post notifications on my Campaigns page until I log back it.
Anyone else keep getting logged out of the site? It’s aggravating because I can’t see new post notifications on my Campaigns page until I log back it.
Kinda? It did happen to me, but only once.
Same. I realized I was logged out once then I’ve been okay since.
Okay, so here's the votes as I understand them, in order of decreasing priority.
Jisara: Secrecy, Loyalty, Security
Vitalis: Secrecy, Security, Loyalty
Chance: Loyalty, Secrecy, Security
Rigel: Unknown
Currently, that's 2 votes for Secrecy as the primary, 1 for Loyalty as the primary, and the secondary stat is evenly split. I think that makes Secrecy likely to be the primary (or else we're going to need a tiebreaker), but our secondary and tertiary stats could go either way.
Sorry, I've been a bit out of it all week.
I was leaning towards voting the same as Chance, but if there's worry about a tiebreaker, I'm ok with having Secrecy be the primary and Loyalty being secondary.
Regarding Acrobatic Performer - the main reason why I was going to take it is then I could take something like Fascinating Performance or other Perform-based feats and use my Acrobatics modifier, since that'll end up being higher in the long run.
Secrecy, Loyalty, Security is fine with me.
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@GM - Is there supposed to be a third rebellion downtime activity? I only see Gather Information and Recruit Followers.
But I also can’t open the spoiler for Recruit Followers, so something could be going on with the forums.
I JUST realized why Chance asked this: I said "three downtime activities" in the original post; that was something I meant to change, it should have read "two." My apologies.
GM, I came across your thread about my use of a silver piece with telekinetic projectile on the Rules forum - it seems to have elicited strong opinions on both sides. Have you come to a final decision? If you have, depending on what it is, it might have an impact on my shopping list at the margins.
I'll be honest, seeing the opinions that were elicited, I'm on the fence about it, so I'm going to go with my initial gut feeling: you cannot use a silver piece to overcome a devil's resistance to physical damage using telekinetic projectile. And I will put that in the rules/rulings document (which is now 20 pages of just random ad hoc adjustments).
GM, I came across your thread about my use of a silver piece with telekinetic projectile on the Rules forum - it seems to have elicited strong opinions on both sides. Have you come to a final decision? If you have, depending on what it is, it might have an impact on my shopping list at the margins.I'll be honest, seeing the opinions that were elicited, I'm on the fence about it, so I'm going to go with my initial gut feeling: you cannot use a silver piece to overcome a devil's resistance to physical damage using telekinetic projectile. And I will put that in the rules/rulings document (which is now 20 pages of just random ad hoc adjustments).
Works for me - frankly, after thinking about it some more overnight, I think that as a GM, I would rule the same way.
The argument that does have me leaning in the same direction you are is the argument about the power boost to a cantrip. I don't think it's a lot of additional power, but it's more than a caster could give to any other damage-dealing cantrip without some cost. Using a metamagic feat, for example, requires both spending a class feat on the feat and (usually) spending an extra action on the spell. Allowing silver coins or other items made from special materials to pass on that quality to the damage from telekinetic projectile would not require either. I spent an action to retrieve the coin, but if the room description had mentioned a silver candelabra, I could have used that instead.
Secrecy, Loyalty, Security is fine with me.
Same.
Also, I am waiting on you guys to specifically say how you're spending your week of downtime, for the record.
I thought:
Day 1: ShoppingDay 2: Investigate the burned down buildings.
I want to see what we discover on day 2 before planning the rest of the week.
I think everything we want to sell is correctly checked off on the treasure sheet.
One question, regarding the silver morningstar. Is there any way to have a merchant convert it into another weapon? Or we'd just have to sell it and purchase a new silver weapon at full price if we wanted one?
One question, regarding the silver morningstar. Is there any way to have a merchant convert it into another weapon? Or we'd just have to sell it and purchase a new silver weapon at full price if we wanted one?
Making the rather safe assumption that the morningstar is hardened silver, it would require reheating the silver to make it soft and forgeable again, so it’s possible. The issue arises with factors like how the reforging the spikes would affect the structural integrity of the new weapon or if there is enough material in the morningstar to make the blade of a glaive, because forging is actually quite a bit of removing excess material. Not to mention that it’s still a perfectly good morningstar that could be resold to a prospective buyer rather than reforged in a process that could compromise structural integrity or maybe even waste the material if the forging went south.
For the sake of simplicity, I’m going to say that you would just have to sell it and purchase a new silver weapon. If it were a less common material (like adamantine) I might entertain the reforging idea a bit more, but even then the various factors that go into reforging isn’t as simple as just “take this metal and make it into something else.”
If any of you are interested while coming up with your PC's shopping list, I started a list of inexpensive gear (including mundane, alchemical, and magic items, but excluding weapons, bombs, and armor) for PF2 on the PFS thread over the summer. I got sidetracked and haven't finished the list of items from the APG yet (I will!), but the list of cheap items from the CRB is still pretty useful.
Because our rebellion is Trained in Loyalty and it uses the highest Con or Cha bonus of the party, the rebellion's Loyalty modifier is +7. With the +2 from the Fushi sisters for Gather Rumor, it bumps to a +9. Gather Rumor also takes 3 days of downtime.
Regarding the level and DC for Earn Income: Xavier might run it differently, but the level is generally determined by the level of the settlement you're making the check in. It is possible to find work of a lower level if the GM allows it. You might also find work of a level higher than the settlement's level, but the CRB suggests requiring you to spend some time using Gather Information to learn about them. It's usually best to go for as high as you reasonably can. The failure pay rate for a level 5 task is 1sp less than succeeding at a level 2 task, while success pays three times as much. The DCs are standard level-based DCs, so a level 5 task is DC 20. A level 2 task is DC 16.
You have to spend at least 1 day on Earn Income, but as long as you don't critically fail you can then just keep spending days without making more checks until the GM says stop. You'd usually use Crafting, Perform, or a Lore skill for Earn Income. I didn't specify which one I was using because my Crafting and Underworld Lore skills have the same modifier.
To use my check as an example: Because Kintargo is a level 5 settlement, I decided to attempt an Earn Income check using Underworld Lore with a DC of 20. I rolled a 14 for a 22, which is a success, earning 0.9gp per day. I then decided to keep going for an additional day, bringing me to a total of 1.8gp. A natural 20 would have gotten me 1.5gp per day instead, for a total of 3gp, while a nat 1 or 2 would have been a critical failure and zero money. A nat 3-11 would be failures, getting me 0.2gp per day for a total of 0.4. If I instead had attempted a level 2 check (DC 16), I would still have a success, but would have gotten only 0.6gp for the same time spent.
You can also find the table of DCs and pay rates on the SRD: Earn Income.
Also regarding the potions we found: since there's 4 of them and 4 of us, is everyone okay with each person just taking one?
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Okay, lots of questions.
Gather Rumor also takes 3 days of downtime.
Jisara is correct, so Chance and Vitalis will have to reconfigure their downtime days.
When you Gather Rumor, you can choose either a Loyalty or Diplomacy check. If you choose the Loyalty, then you can use the bonus from the Fushi sisters on that check, but that bonus can only be gained once per week.
Jisara’s post two above this one sums it up pretty well, so I’m going to make it brief:
The PC chooses the level of the task and the skill used. However, if the skill is not Lore, Crafting, or Performance, then it’s up to GM discretion about whether or not the skill in question can be used to Earn Income.As Kintargo is a level 5 settlement, you can find Earn Income tasks up to 5th level (if Kintargo were a 7th level settlement, then you could find tasks of up to 7th level). However, thanks to Kintargo’s Artists’ Haven ability, if you Earn Income using Crafting to create art objects or using Performance in general, then you can find tasks of up to 8th level instead.
The DC for a task’s level is listed on this table, but that also happens to be the number corresponding to that level of task on this table. Though, the GM may choose to modify the DC if they feel it requires doing so (which is why it says “the GM secretly sets the DC”), such as for using not-as-narrow skills like Athletics to Earn Income.
You do not need to roll a check every single day that you Earn Income; you roll it once when you start to Earn Income, then you can use that same degree of success for that same level of task for any number of consecutive days that you spend.
The Earn Income table is mostly self-explanatory—if you succeed then you earn money per day based on the level of the task and your proficiency in the skill used. If you fail, then you use the Failure column. If you critically fail, then you get no money. If you critically succeed, then you treat the task’s level as 1 higher for the purposes of how much money you would receive.
Athletics +8 (patroling/training)
Diplomacy/Intimidation +7 (interactions with citizens)
Society +5 (applying the law)
I generally stick by the whole “Crafting, Lore, and Performance only” thing, but I’ll let you use Athletics in this case, but the DC will be 5 higher than usual if you do use it.
EDIT: I would like to point out a house rule of mine: "You can use Hero Points to reroll a check made as part of a downtime activity. This is an exception to downtime activities being unable to be modified by fortune effects."
And for being patient with me through the weirdness of this AP, I'm going to give everyone a Hero Point.
Gather Rumor also takes 3 days of downtime.
So I have to use the Gather Rumor activity? I can't use the Gather Information action under Diplomacy? Forgive me, I'm still not used to the downtime activities of 2E. I'm much more used to the 1E rules.
I generally stick by the whole “Crafting, Lore, and Performance only” thing, but I’ll let you use Athletics in this case, but the DC will be 5 higher than usual if you do use it.
Ok, then I'll use Hell Lore for my Earn Income activity with the Hellknights. If it's 5 higher for my Athletic +8, its 2 points easier for my Lore +5.
Also regarding the potions we found: since there's 4 of them and 4 of us, is everyone okay with each person just taking one?
Works for me.
You don't have to keep rolling for each day that you're using Earn Income, so you can just keep spending days to bring in that 1.5gp per day!
Oh really? I’ll take it.
Gather Rumor also takes 3 days of downtime.So I have to use the Gather Rumor activity? I can't use the Gather Information action under Diplomacy? Forgive me, I'm still not used to the downtime activities of 2E. I'm much more used to the 1E rules.
I made that activity up, so I’ll take responsibility for the confusion: Gather Information is itself on a much smaller scale, maybe several hundred feet at best. Gather Rumor is basically representative of several checks to Gather Information in the different parts of Kintargo, as well as sorting through rumors for stuff of note (like ignoring stuff like “Old Man Jenkins’s cat got stuck in a tree” or what have you).
I agree with Jisara's suggestion to each take one of the healing potions. Chance puts his in his bandolier.
Chance's shopping:
- Feather token, ladder (lvl 1, 3gp) - Feather turns into a 20' ladder (permanent).
- Holy water (lvl 1, 3gp) - because we have already met one fiend.
Saving the rest for something really useful, like sleeves of storage.
Can I just say how much I hate that all other splash weapons are martial weapons in PF2?
Chance is proficient with whips, but I suggest we transfer the potency rune to one of Vitalis's weapons.
I agree on the potency rune.
Vitalis, I can also still spot you the gold for some full plate, if you want. There's not much to buy at this level for me so I'm just saving stuff up for later, so I can get a hat of the magi or a crafter's eyepiece.
Thanks, Jisara, but it's okay, I can earn the few extra gold I need for the armor myself. I'll take the +1 rune for my glaive though. If I understand correct, we need to purchase a runestone for 3 gp and than Jisara can transfer it with a Craft check. I'll pay the 3 gp for the runestone.
If we go to Clenchjaw's at night, can we transfer the rune as a daytime activity?
Thanks, Jisara, but it's okay, I can earn the few extra gold I need for the armor myself. I'll take the +1 rune for my glaive though. If I understand correct, we need to purchase a runestone for 3 gp and than Jisara can transfer it with a Craft check. I'll pay the 3 gp for the runestone.
If we go to Clenchjaw's at night, can we transfer the rune as a daytime activity?
You do not need a runestone to transfer runes; you can just do it from one weapon to another with the Craft activity. The difference is that transferring it from a runestone saves money in the long run, but if it wasn't already on the runestone then you would need to pay the cost to transfer it to the runestone (as well as the cost of the runestone itself). Basically, if you find a rune on a runestone, then it's good, otherwise runestones are things you just ignore (like magic mouth).
Also, no you can't transfer the rune during the day, because that's still a downtime thing, and I'm sticking by my decision of "if you go adventuring, then that's all you can really do that day." I may change my mind depending on how the situation at Clenchjaw's goes, though.
Okay so I guess it would cost 3.5 gp once we have downtime after Clenchjaws.
Well, you can spend more downtime days to reduce the actual cost, as normal for the Craft activity.
"The din is such that normal conversation requires us to all but shout," Jisara replies to Chance. "I think you could get away with it, as long as it's nothing flashy."
”When you Cast a Spell, your spellcasting creates obvious visual manifestations of the gathering magic…” All spellcasting is, by definition, “flashy.” It’s just that some magic has more hard-to-ignore manifestations, like fireball. If you Cast a Spell here, then SOMEONE will notice. Perhaps not everyone will notice it immediately, but someone definitely will.
Too focused on the components, and skipped over that. Sorry!
What Vendalfek says next is in-character; I mean no disrespect to you as a player. Please let me know if/when I’ve taken something too far.”Hoo! That was a chilly breeze! Did you guys feel that?”
I assume that means he is ignoring me. Understandable. I know how these fey can be. I'm just being in character too. I don't want to sabotage anyone's diplomacy with him but my character would be mad at it.
On a separate note, did the Lictor send back my Silver Raven? And if not, could I have retrieved it when I was over there doing the Earn Money activity?
What Vendalfek says next is in-character; I mean no disrespect to you as a player. Please let me know if/when I’ve taken something too far.”Hoo! That was a chilly breeze! Did you guys feel that?”I assume that means he is ignoring me. Understandable. I know how these fey can be. I'm just being in character too. I don't want to sabotage anyone's diplomacy with him but my character would be mad at it.
On a separate note, did the Lictor send back my Silver Raven? And if not, could I have retrieved it when I was over there doing the Earn Money activity?
Will respond more thoroughly in a PM, but the short answer is no to both.
I imaging this faerie dragon is going to be particularly grating against Vitalis. As a good creature, I can't outright kill it. But as an especially chaotic creature, it will constantly be going against the law and order that Hellknights strive to achieve. Well conflict breeds good roleplaying.
I imaging this faerie dragon is going to be particularly grating against Vitalis. As a good creature, I can't outright kill it. But as an especially chaotic creature, it will constantly be going against the law and order that Hellknights strive to achieve. Well conflict breeds good roleplaying.
Well, here’s the thing: Vendalfek is actually a reasonable (if scatterbrained) individual—if you explain to him politely why what he was doing was wrong and could have gotten people hurt, he understands and will change his ways and redirect his energy toward more reasonable activities (see below). If you just condescend to him and treat him like a misbehaving child (which, let’s be honest, is what Vitalis was doing), then he’s not going to give you the time of day.
That said, by recruiting Vendalfek into the rebellion, the rebellion gains access to the Spread Disinformation downtime activity.
Uncommon, Downtime, Rebellion
You spread false information about the rebellion throughout Kintargo. By spending 2 days of downtime, you can attempt a Deception or Secrecy check with a DC equal to a very hard DC for the rebellion’s level.
Critical Success You information gains incredible traction, reducing the rebellion’s Notoriety by 2d6.
Success As a critical success, except reducing Notoriety by 1d6.
Failure Your false information fails to spread widespread.
Critical Failure Your information gives off the wrong message, or attracts unwanted attention (like the dottari). Increase the rebellion’s Notoriety by 1d6.
That may be, but Vitalis hasn't seen his reasonable side yet; just his cause chaos in the bar side. I stand by my reaction.
As a player, I'm glad to recruit him. He'll definitely be useful. As a character, clashing personalities will be interesting.
So Jisara (or someone in the party) needs to spend 1.75 gp in raw materials right now. Jisara can choose to finish transferring the rune now by spending another 1.75 gp. Alternatively, you can choose to reduce that second 1.75 gp by 0.5 gp per additional downtime day you spend (to a minimum of 0 gp after 4 more days; the initial 1.75 in raw materials must be spend now.
Since the rune is going on my glaive, I'll pay the 1.75 gp. I'm removing it from my character sheet now.
I don't mind waiting the 4 days downtime. We don't seem to be on any time restrictions yet. But if others don't want to, I have enough to pay the rest as well.
If there's no objections, I'll spend 3 days to reduce the remainder to .25gp for Vitalis. That way there's no effort wasted. :)
Just so you all know, I'm going to be a bit busy until Saturday, so I won't be posting that much.
If there's no objections, I'll spend 3 days to reduce the remainder to .25gp for Vitalis. That way there's no effort wasted. :)
So that means it'll be an even 2 gp total for Vitalis (for both the raw materials and the remainder).
So what would everyone else like to do for those intervening three days? (it doesn't state it, so I'm just going to say that the preparation activities for the infiltration require 1 downtime day each.)
Just so you all know, I'm going to be a bit busy until Saturday, so I won't be posting that much.
Duly noted; thanks for letting us know.
I'll update the cost to 2 gp. I'll post my activities in the gameplay chat.
You see, this situation is iffy. As far as you are aware, the people set to work in the Salt Works are prisoners, meaning that they have been judged as criminals (even if judged under a biased and ridiculous legal system that imprisons people who drink tea at night). There’s nothing making you stop the others from doing this, since your tenets are a personal code, but this situation would be toing the line of your tenets at best, and flat-out breaking them at worst.
Basically, you don’t have enough information to justify ignoring a low-priority tenet in favor of a higher-priority one. But I’ll bot Rigel to help you out there. (See Gameplay)
Is there more description coming? Or are we up? Do we just make two rolls? Or do we keep rolling until we get two successes?
Also, is Vendalfek with us? I think we would have asked him to come with us. (Not Vitalis, but as a group). Most likely invisibly.
Is there more description coming? Or are we up? Do we just make two rolls? Or do we keep rolling until we get two successes?
Also, is Vendalfek with us? I think we would have asked him to come with us. (Not Vitalis, but as a group). Most likely invisibly.
Y’all are up; it’s purposefully vague to give freedom as to HOW you get past the guards (e.g. Chance’s impersonating-some-guards plan would be rolling Deception). Keep rolling until you get two successes (or a critical success), but note that failure has consequences (which is where the Edge Points come in).
If you want Vendalfek with you, then Vendalfek can be with you.
EDIT: To be clear, if Vendalfek comes with you guys, then he'll have to roll checks as well as he is just as capable of increasing Awareness as the rest of you.
For Vendalfek, I guess he can go for two successes with Stealth and just stay invisible unless we need him.
For Vendalfek, I guess he can go for two successes with Stealth and just stay invisible unless we need him.
...or until a minute passes...I think you don't understand the fact that Vendalfek can't always be invisible.
Oh ok. I thought he was invisible in the bar all night. I guess he was just stealthing.
Well, he could stay hidden way back 100 feet and just maintain telepathic connection.
Anyone else, feel free to chime in. I'm just trying to help. This is just in discussion. Vitalis is not giving Vendalfek any instruction.
Sorry guys, last week was my first week at a new job, and they're trying to cram about 2 months of training into 2 weeks. I've been pretty well spent by the time I get home and took most of the weekend to unwind. Today was a lot easier on me so I'm hoping that trend will continue.
Sorry all, really busy day today for me, so I'm not able to get to posting today. See y'all on Monday.
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Half expecting that, when the dottari tell him to move, for Vitalis to insist that his union's negotiated agreement prohibits him from working during breaktime.
Is Spread Disinformation an individual activity, or something we all need to spend time on?
Is Spread Disinformation an individual activity, or something we all need to spend time on?
Individual.
The Earn Income table on Archives of Nethys is fine, but how did I miss the Earn Income Calculator?
Hero Points reset in a week