1) I presume so, but note that demoralizing doesn't stack with itself (according to errata) and each additional Intimidate check against a target get a cumulative +5 to the DC.
2) Sure.
3) Sigh...from what I gather, Paizo reserves the right to disallow fear effects from accumulating at any time. :-/
It's a useful feat, but demoralizing doesn't last that many rounds. On the other hand, the Enforcer feat allows you to demoralize as a free action and lasts a potentially ridiculous number of rounds and allows you to frighten your opponent on a critical hit; the only down side is that you have to be doing nonlethal damage (so it's great for monks or people using Merciful weapons).
There's also a trait for followers of Sarenrae that allows you to attack for non-lethal with normal weapons at no penalty-so that works well.
Shaken is nice, but Conrugan Smash is mainly taken to synergize with Shatter Defenses (which makes an opponent flatfooted to you)
This is so:
Enemy loses dex to AC.
ROGUES can SA a foe for multiple rounds without a flank (strictly better than improved feint)
Let's a fighter use Deadly Stroke.
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I USED to think Cornugan smash was the best option till I started looking at Enforcer. It lasts longer, easier to apply, stacks with itself for better fear effects (kinda), you get it earlier, and with a single level of rogue (Thug) your opponents will ALWAYS be frightened every round (since every 4 pts of damage becomes a frightened effect) and attempt to flee provoking an AoO.
Move into melee and take a non-lethal swing, hit with overhand chop and do damage then intimidate for damage -4 rounds of shaken and a round of frighten. They try to flee provoking an AoO for more damage and then moving the target out of range denying them a counter attack and preventing a full attack next round.
It's a quick way to get the bosses bodyguards out of the way for a round or two (1 round spent running and 1 coming back).
I like it.
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I USED to think Cornugan smash was the best option till I started looking at Enforcer. It lasts longer, easier to apply, stacks with itself for better fear effects (kinda), you get it earlier, and with a single level of rogue (Thug) your opponents will ALWAYS be frightened every round (since every 4 pts of damage becomes a frightened effect) and attempt to flee provoking an AoO.
Move into melee and take a non-lethal swing, hit with overhand chop and do damage then intimidate for damage -4 rounds of shaken and a round of frighten. They try to flee provoking an AoO for more damage and then moving the target out of range denying them a counter attack and preventing a full attack next round.
It's a quick way to get the bosses bodyguards out of the way for a round or two (1 round spent running and 1 coming back).
I like it.
You're misreading the Thug's Frightening power... he has the choice to convert 4 rounds of Shaken into 1 round of Frightened, not 4 pts of damage = frightened. You'd have to beat the Demoralize DC (10 + target's HD + target's WIS modifier) by at least 15 to manage to inflict frightened. So you wouldn't cause the Frightened condition unless you scored a crit (from the Enforcer feat) and succeeded your demoralize check or, on a normal hit, beat the DC by 15+ on that check and chose to use Frightening to convert it.
Still, with a weapon with a broad critical range (keen scimitar, for example) or a lot of focus on upping your Intimidate check, you could send your foes screaming and running fairly often. It's a combo I wish I'd thought of early on with my barbarian/rogue/chevalier character (who instead went scout rogue and had nasty charges, and later picked up Cornugon Smash).
You're misreading the Thug's Frightening power... he has the choice to convert 4 rounds of Shaken into 1 round of Frightened, not 4 pts of damage = frightened.
The Enforcer feat turns 4 points of damage into 4 rounds of being shaken, though.
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You're misreading the Thug's Frightening power... he has the choice to convert 4 rounds of Shaken into 1 round of Frightened, not 4 pts of damage = frightened.The Enforcer feat turns 4 points of damage into 4 rounds of being shaken, though.
Ah yeah, my bad.
I'm kind of glad I didn't take that combo then, my GM would have killed me.|
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You're misreading the Thug's Frightening power... he has the choice to convert 4 rounds of Shaken into 1 round of Frightened, not 4 pts of damage = frightened.The Enforcer feat turns 4 points of damage into 4 rounds of being shaken, though.
Bingo, and with power attack in there it's minimum is going to be 6pts every time you hit. Automatic frighten every round plus at least 2 rounds of shaken and a free AoO every time you hit someone.
Nasty part is I'm a Natural Weapon Ranger beastmaster with a small pack of Wolves AC's and an amulet of mighty fists (merciful). I hit 3 different targets a round and scatter them while the wolves AoO trips them so they provoke getting back up too.
Things just die around me...
If you look at the actual errata document for intimidate/demoralize I believe it says that demoralize cannot stack with ANYTHING to upgrade shaken to frightened. Away from a real computer or I would copy and paste it.
Yeah, I believe you're right. Demoralizing will not take an enemy beyond Shakened. It can be used to cause Shakened, but after that you need to use a different fear effect source to increase it.
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If you look at the actual errata document for intimidate/demoralize I believe it says that demoralize cannot stack with ANYTHING to upgrade shaken to frightened. Away from a real computer or I would copy and paste it.Yeah, I believe you're right. Demoralizing will not take an enemy beyond Shakened. It can be used to cause Shakened, but after that you need to use a different fear effect source to increase it.
Actually it wouldn't stack then either. Demoralize (shaken) would be replaced by the new X(shaken) and go away.
Specifically there is no way to use Cornugan smash to give an opponent a status other than shaken.However Enforcer +Thug specifically counters this ruling and will let you upgrade to Frightened and anything stacks with the frighten status.
As for it being non-lethal damage there's an easy cure for that.
If a creature’s nonlethal damage is equal to his total
maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further
nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
Yup, just keep beating on him and he still dies, you just have to hit him 1 or 2 more times and since he's constantly trying to run away he can't hit you back.
I call it the "in the ring with Mike Tyson" method.
If you look at the actual errata document for intimidate/demoralize I believe it says that demoralize cannot stack with ANYTHING to upgrade shaken to frightened. Away from a real computer or I would copy and paste it.Yeah, I believe you're right. Demoralizing will not take an enemy beyond Shakened. It can be used to cause Shakened, but after that you need to use a different fear effect source to increase it.
Actually, if Demoralize was used anywhere in the fear equation, the result will only allow for the Shaken condition. This is even if a spell is used to try to increase the level of fear.
As for it being non-lethal damage there's an easy cure for that.
If a creature’s nonlethal damage is equal to his total
maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further
nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.Yup, just keep beating on him and he still dies, you just have to hit him 1 or 2 more times and since he's constantly trying to run away he can't hit you back.
I call it the "in the ring with Mike Tyson" method.
Problem there. Aren't lethal vs non-lethal tracked separately. That means your lethal damage dealing buddy and you aren't helping each other.
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Problem there. Aren't lethal vs non-lethal tracked separately. That means your lethal damage dealing buddy and you aren't helping each other.If your lethal+nonlethal total exceeds your HP, you're KOed.
They are tracked separately because they heal at different rates but are added together to determine when the target hits zero and below.