More damage to giants is always good in my book.
Sorry, everyone specified needs to make 2 DC18 Fort Saves, as there are two hags.
Also it's up to you whether Fulk will run through the walls of fire or cower. I'd be fine with Icetusk trying to extinguish the walls in front of him before Fulk takes his turn, potentially allowing him to run into the stable unharmed but the fire. He will provide SO many AoO's though...
I'll wait for Icetusk. Is it our turn, btw?
I'll wait for Icetusk. Is it our turn, btw?
Yeah, everyone can post and I'll interpret it through the initiative order.
Draconic* Companion: Breath Weapon (Ex): At 9th level, a draconic companion gains a breath weapon, usable once per day, that deals 1d6 points of damage per Hit Dice of the energy type matching its draconic resistance in either a 30-foot cone or a 60-foot line (chosen when the draconic companion gains this ability). At 15th level, it can use the breath weapon three times per day, but it must wait 1d4 rounds between uses. Targets of this breath weapon can attempt a Reflex save (DC = 10 + half the draconic companion’s Hit Dice + the draconic companion’s Constitution modifier) for half damage.
She's got 11 HD and a raging CON of 28 (+9), so that's 11d6 and a DC of 24
She doesn't know the Fetch trick, but he didn't give a command either. I figure that dogs can bring their masters things without specific instruction, why not mammoths? She's smarter than the average dog (INT 3). If that detail needs to go away, I understand.
*Refluffed as Elemental, that is.
Draconic* Companion: Breath Weapon (Ex): At 9th level, a draconic companion gains a breath weapon, usable once per day, that deals 1d6 points of damage per Hit Dice of the energy type matching its draconic resistance in either a 30-foot cone or a 60-foot line (chosen when the draconic companion gains this ability). At 15th level, it can use the breath weapon three times per day, but it must wait 1d4 rounds between uses. Targets of this breath weapon can attempt a Reflex save (DC = 10 + half the draconic companion’s Hit Dice + the draconic companion’s Constitution modifier) for half damage.
She's got 11 HD and a raging CON of 28 (+9), so that's 11d6 and a DC of 24
She doesn't know the Fetch trick, but he didn't give a command either. I figure that dogs can bring their masters things without specific instruction, why not mammoths? She's smarter than the average dog (INT 3). If that detail needs to go away, I understand.
*Refluffed as Elemental, that is.
Icetusk is a she. Not sure why I kept getting it wrong, but definitely correct me if I do. I almost included fluff about her winding up the breath weapon last post, I was so sure sure she was going to use it.
I'm fine with her picking up the lance but it's a standard action to do so.
Hmm, that will require her to stick around for another turn, given that I think the breath weapon is a standard action also.
Hmm, that will require her to stick around for another turn, given that I think the breath weapon is a standard action also.
Yeah, standard action. Also she'll provoke if any of the enemies have combat reflexes.
@Argos: I'm pretty sure your attack bonus is wrong. BAB 9 + STR +8 enchantment +1 WF & GWF +2 = 20 (unless I'm missing something). It looks like you're going by the +22 that includes greater magic weapon (which you don't have active) and doesn't include eagle soul, otherwise it'd be a +25.
The damage looks fine though. Both your attacks are enough to drop a hellhound in a single blow, but not kill them. Do you finish off the one you dropped or move on to the next one?
I've updated the map, FYI. My phone still refuses to play nice with Google Drawings, and I nearly destroyed the whole map with it this morning (thank Hal for the undo button).
PS: Fulk is in a really bad spot. That huge HP pool is gonna run out at some point... I'd still rule that he can attempt to break the grapple and continue to flee, but he's very close to being cornered and therefore cowering...
Oricalcum gives a +1 circumstance bonus to attack because of wibbly wobbly timey wimey skymetal shenanigans and the Torag daily obedience gives a +1 sacred bonus to hit with warhammers. The "extra" +2 is from the +4 strength from Eaglesoul.
Argos will drop two hounds rather than finish off one.
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Oricalcum gives a +1 circumstance bonus to attack because of wibbly wobbly timey wimey skymetal shenanigans and the Torag daily obedience gives a +1 sacred bonus to hit with warhammers. The "extra" +2 is from the +4 strength from Eaglesoul.
Argos will drop two hounds rather than finish off one.
Ah yes, that works. That's a terrifying to-hit once he's all buffed up. You and Dizzy's 50 AC :P
I had accounted for the Eaglesoul, not the obedience and skymetal bonuses.
Okay, sorry about the delay. Here's my breakdown:
str 8
dex 15 +2 race +1 level +6 stat item
con 14
int 14 +2 race +2 level +6 stat item
wis 10
cha 10 -2 race
my initial point buy was
str +2
dex 7
con 5
int 5
wis 0
cha 0
Looks like I added 2 to my int and dex. I've fixed my sheet and adjusted various things in it (skill ranks, bonuses, ac, attack, and damage) but it only dropped my AC by 2. I also noticed a few other mistakes that I'm fixing as we speak (I had forgotten to add my bab to CMD, for example). I should have it updated here momentarily (I'll post when I have it done).
EDIT: updated.
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once he's all buffed up.
Assuming he takes a bunch of rounds to buff, hah. I don't think "Fully buffed" is likely to ever happen, so much as one or two buffs appropriate to the situation.
@Vashta: Go ahead and roll spell resistance for both of the hags.
@Dizzy: You'll need to roll two DC 18 for saves (2 hags) for the gory transformation or be sickened for 1 minute.
Nevermind on the SR, I've rolled it myself. You'll still need to roll a second fort save against the second hag's transformation.
New post is up. Things... aren't great for the PCs.
Especially Fulk. Have you been tracking HP? I can't find it on your character page.
@Argos: The dragon is currently 25 ft. in the air.
@Dizzy: The giants are only 12 ft. tall, so you can easily leap over them. Unfortunately, unless I'm missing something, Dizzy won't have enough movement to get to the hag grappling Fulk and take aim action, as jumping doesn't increase your total move speed.
In regards to force punch breaking the grapple, there's no clear ruling I can find, but I'll allow it in this situation. To be clear, I'm not setting precedent, I'm just ruling in this specific situation because I'll be cool if it works and it makes sense to me.
PS: Dizzy totally has a running start from the roof. Unless you meant she'd jump down to the ground and then high jump over the giants from the ground? Which bizarrely she can do with a 13 ft clearance.
PSS: Everyone will need to include under that conditions you can use your immediate actions, because using them retroactively after you get hit or saving them if you don't is too powerful and I can't go back and edit posts after an hour anyway.
PS: Dizzy totally has a running start from the roof. Unless you meant she'd jump down to the ground and then high jump over the giants from the ground? Which bizarrely she can do with a 13 ft clearance.
PSS: Everyone will need to include under that conditions you can use your immediate actions, because using them retroactively after you get hit or saving them if you don't is too powerful and I can't go back and edit posts after an hour anyway.
So... I forgot about her haste effect increasing your move speed, you can absolutely reach the Hag and attempt to hit her with force punch. If you're successful, you'll likely save Fulk's life.
And yes I know this is my 7th post in a row. :P
We'll forgive you for 7 posts in a row if it means we don't have a TPK right off the bat!
We'll forgive you for 7 posts in a row if it means we don't have a TPK right off the bat!
That's fair, I guess :P
I don't think you're at a TPK yet. You're trying to fight a very difficult encounter designed for 6 characters with only 4. You're at 2/3rds power.
Without pulling back the curtain too much (but this is a playtest after all), you're fighting a CR14 encounter with APL of 14, with mitigating circumstances that increase the effective CR by atleast +2.
But with only 4 of 6 characters in play and all the enemies in play, it's more like APL 13 vs. CR16, which is an epic encounter. CR is an art, not science, but it lines up that you're having trouble with it.
We'll cross the bridge of character death or even a TPK if come to it, but I'm willing to be flexible in regards to how you want to deal with characters dying.
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I'm glad to read that analysis of the situation. Argos is trying to make his way over to help - I've considered trying to ignore the speedbumps but I think not dealing with them would end up being dangerous.
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Oh, I'm not complaining (and I'm enjoying your designer notes -- I didn't want to offer feedback mid-stream, but am happy to do so when/if you want).
I think at this point we're really only at risk of losing one character, maybe two depending on Dizzy's fate. And even that was because of our choices; we could have let the girls (two of which turned out to be hags!!!) lose some digits/limbs while we got our stuff together for another round or two.
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It all comes down to tactics, team work, and communication. The enemy caught us by surprise, and our PCs all acted independently. Some charger straight in, others stopped to prepare. The net effect is the party being split, which is always bad.
We could have tried different things, in retrospect. Like stalling them. A few Bluff checks to get them talking while we buffed up. We could have picked a spot to come together. We could have decided to charge them enmasse naked. All would have been more effective. And I take my share of blame in this, as the party is down an Inquisitor and a Bard due to Ulmo insisting on wearing pants. In short, if we tpk it is in large part on us.
I hope to get Ulmo into play soon. Hopefully he can teleport in and get some Giant attention off the rest of you.
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I guess we should have taken the hint that they got inside Janderhoff. I wasn’t expecting the first encounter effectively before we got started. Should’ve had Fulk sleeping in the stable. This would be a completely different fight if I’d come in mounted. I’m still wondering where the giants got all these SLAs from. I mean, Wall of Fire is a 4th level spell. And they all had it? Holy cow.
I'm glad to read that analysis of the situation. Argos is trying to make his way over to help - I've considered trying to ignore the speedbumps but I think not dealing with them would end up being dangerous.
I can give more explanation as we go, as well as get feedback, but it might be better after the encounter is over one way or another.
Oh, I'm not complaining (and I'm enjoying your designer notes -- I didn't want to offer feedback mid-stream, but am happy to do so when/if you want).
I think at this point we're really only at risk of losing one character, maybe two depending on Dizzy's fate. And even that was because of our choices; we could have let the girls (two of which turned out to be hags!!!) lose some digits/limbs while we got our stuff together for another round or two.
I definitely would like feedback, but I agree it may be better to get it once the encounter is finished.
It should be clear at this point the giants were only interested in drawing you out unprepared.
It all comes down to tactics, team work, and communication. The enemy caught us by surprise, and our PCs all acted independently. Some charger straight in, others stopped to prepare. The net effect is the party being split, which is always bad.
We could have tried different things, in retrospect. Like stalling them. A few Bluff checks to get them talking while we buffed up. We could have picked a spot to come together. We could have decided to charge them enmasse naked. All would have been more effective. And I take my share of blame in this, as the party is down an Inquisitor and a Bard due to Ulmo insisting on wearing pants. In short, if we tpk it is in large part on us.
I hope to get Ulmo into play soon. Hopefully he can teleport in and get some Giant attention off the rest of you.
I do think part of the problem is that I didn't explain the level of difficulty/need for tactical play (Keep in mind, tactical play isn't metagaming). I'm just concerned that a lot of players treat difficulty as a call to optimize further, and that's an arms race nobody wins.
A lot of my rewrite hinges on challenging players in unexpected ways, but I do want this to be fun. So if you feel like it's a grind or unfair, let me know.
I guess we should have taken the hint that they got inside Janderhoff. I wasn’t expecting the first encounter effectively before we got started. Should’ve had Fulk sleeping in the stable. This would be a completely different fight if I’d come in mounted. I’m still wondering where the giants got all these SLAs from. I mean, Wall of Fire is a 4th level spell. And they all had it? Holy cow.
Yeah, the first encounter is a warning that the giants will come at you proactively now if you don't take precautions.
If anyone has rolled high enough on Knowledge (local), they should have a good idea. But these fire giants get their unusual abilities from a template. They also have fear (4th) and fireball (3rd) in limited uses. Other than different weapons, they're all identical stats wise. You'll run into a diversity of weapons instead of a mountain of greatswords in the AP as written.
All in all, I think you've all done well, but you're disorganized and started overconfident.
I'm all for having after-action debriefs, especially since this is specifically a playtest. Also definitely appreciate flexibility in dealing with the fallout, however the chips may fall. Agreed that more coordination would have changed things drastically in beginning this encounter. To some extent I think that's "realistic" in the way the encounter was presented from a metagame perspective, but by 13th level our characters would also presumably know a lot more about each others' modus operandi and what to expect from each other.
Personally I’m just kicking myself. Because I couldn’t decide between comfort (sleep in armor) or a ring of Sustenance (no food/water needed and only 2 hours of sleep). If I just went with the first there’d be 4 rounds of bane/holy attacks coming at the giants.
As is, any advice on where I should teleport to? Last thing we need is another PC surrounded and alone.
I think Fulk is in the most immediate danger, there are a lot of strong enemies in the area. I think Argos may have just evened the numbers on his side of the fight...I'm not sure he can take the dragon one on one if it stays after him, but I think he can delay it long enough for you to turn the tide in the main fight.
Or maybe that's more of this overconfidence.
That's why I jumped to help him; if nothing else, I make a good second target.
Note to self: Get a second sword!
Note to self: Get a second sword!
Dont you have Force Sword prepared for that?
Yeah, I think getting some help for Fulk is the key priority.
I think I'm in decent shape right now -- assuming I can use a swift action and the dice bot doesn't turn on me like it usually does, I hope I can deal with the hag without too much pain (famous last words?) -- and then we should hopefully all be able to gang up on the bad guys.
@Dizzy: Just to be completely clear, you're hitting the Hag that has Fulk grappled? The Hag uses she/her, but probably not for long...
Also the hags have spell resistance, so go ahead and roll for that.
Ya, I want to shove it away. I thought one of the giants had him grappled.
Ya, I want to shove it away. I thought one of the giants had him grappled.
[dice=SR]1d20+13
Nope, one of the Hags.
Okies. No worries. Just wanna save Fulk!
Three Things:
I'm all for having after-action debriefs, especially since this is specifically a playtest. Also definitely appreciate flexibility in dealing with the fallout, however the chips may fall. Agreed that more coordination would have changed things drastically in beginning this encounter. To some extent I think that's "realistic" in the way the encounter was presented from a metagame perspective, but by 13th level our characters would also presumably know a lot more about each others' modus operandi and what to expect from each other.
This is a very good point. For example, if I'd known Ingrahild had Dimension Door, I'd have had her DD me into the stables.
On Icetusk's Armor: She wears Hide armor made of Darkleaf Cloth. Darkleaf acts in most ways as a non-metal version of mithral, giving the same -10%ASF, +2 Max Dex, -3 ACP, half weight etc. The Description doesn't say, as mithral does, that armors count as a category lighter. As such, I've assumed she can't sleep in it (note to self: have her take Endurance), but if you'd like to rule that it counts as light, then yes, she was definitely sleeping in it. :)
Why yes, my mammoth does have claws. Isn't being able to share Greater Beast Totem with your mount wonderful?
Three Things:
I'm all for having after-action debriefs, especially since this is specifically a playtest. Also definitely appreciate flexibility in dealing with the fallout, however the chips may fall. Agreed that more coordination would have changed things drastically in beginning this encounter. To some extent I think that's "realistic" in the way the encounter was presented from a metagame perspective, but by 13th level our characters would also presumably know a lot more about each others' modus operandi and what to expect from each other.This is a very good point. For example, if I'd known Ingrahild had Dimension Door, I'd have had her DD me into the stables.
On Icetusk's Armor: She wears Hide armor made of Darkleaf Cloth. Darkleaf acts in most ways as a non-metal version of mithral, giving the same -10%ASF, +2 Max Dex, -3 ACP, half weight etc. The Description doesn't say, as mithral does, that armors count as a category lighter. As such, I've assumed she can't sleep in it (note to self: have her take Endurance), but if you'd like to rule that it counts as light, then yes, she was definitely sleeping in it. :)
Why yes, my mammoth does have claws. Isn't being able to share Greater Beast Totem with your mount wonderful?
I actually have two questions myself:
Starting with the claws, as far as I can tell from previous research, mechanically speaking natural attacks gained from other sources are additive unless specified otherwise. Why was I looking this up? *whistles innocently*
Flavor wise, what does Icetusk's slam attack look like? Bludgeoning by trunk? Body checking?
Also, is it fair to assume that Icetusk moves on to the next target once the Hag goes down/gets yeeted into the next century?
As for Ingrahild, she's a very useful lady. Just been a bit tied up lately armoring up Umlo.
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I am waiting on Umlo to post, but regardless I will post in the next couple of hours.
This is probably a good time to say that I expect everyone to post regularly, even if they don't feel like they have anything to add. You can just say that. I'm not a mind reader (or am I?), so I don't want to get slogged down wondering if I'm going to be stepping on someone's toes.
Btw, I completely understand that IRL comes up - I'm specifically talking about not posting because you don't have anything new to add.
Also, I'm not calling anyone out, you've all been great so far. I've been overeager (7 posts in a row?) if anything.
I'm very eager to see Ingrahild's bardic performance. I'm rooting for bagpipes.
Post what? Ulmo is getting armored. I can post his general frustration, but there really isn’t anything substantive that I can write when it’s the same action of getting armored for 5 rounds. Not complaining, but at the same time don’t think that there should be a hold for on this.
Trunk, I imagine. Whereas elephants and the like get a gore and a slam, rhinos only get a gore; if it was a body check or something they should also get a gore and a slam.
Yes, she’ll move on to whatever’s left.
Post what? Ulmo is getting armored. I can post his general frustration, but there really isn’t anything substantive that I can write when it’s the same action of getting armored for 5 rounds. Not complaining, but at the same time don’t think that there should be a hold for on this.
I'm not the GM, but I know I appreciate even a very simple post like "XXX continues to don his armor as quickly as he can." Helps me just keep track since I'm sort of programmed to look for five PCs' posts before I resolve everything. Otherwise I space out because of everything I'm keeping track of. (But that's just me.)
Post what? Ulmo is getting armored. I can post his general frustration, but there really isn’t anything substantive that I can write when it’s the same action of getting armored for 5 rounds. Not complaining, but at the same time don’t think that there should be a hold for on this.
Did you read my whole post?
If you want to just say: "Umlo keeps armoring up" and nothing else, that's fine.
If you're in a situation where your character isn't involved or interested, I'd be fine with: "X character says/does nothing" and that's the whole post. Definitely read my previous post if you haven't.
Anyway I won't wait on you.
@Vashta: You forgot to take the -2 dmg out of your attacks due to the sickened condition. Don't forget your attack rolls, saves and skills are penalized too.
@Dizzy: I'm going to assume Dizzy draws her hopeknife as part of her move action/jump. I hope that's okay. That way she can provide flanking and take AoOs, even if she's not nearly as effective as with her estoc.
She has no reason not to, and it means Icetusk's critical hit lands.
I cleared the sickened condition with my touch treatment. It's why I couldn't shift my stare to the hag.
I cleared the sickened condition with my touch treatment. It's why I couldn't shift my stare to the hag.
Ah yes, my mistake. For some reason, I had the order of operations wrong.
Post is up, one giant down. I'll update the map in a few hours, sorry.
@Umlo: I've counted it twice, its been 5 rounds so you have your armor on (albeit with the penalties for donning hastily). Ingrahild will dimension door you wherever you want more or less, but uppity can't see the situation so you can't assume anything.