Monsters save the world (Inactive)

Game Master caster4life

Hmmm...looking forward to when I get to bake a gingerbread familiar upon level up and going through the long list of familiars.

I noticed that a goat is small sized. If I were to bake up a gingerbread goat would I be able to ride it as a tiny construct? If so, the image is quite interesting. The other potential small sized quadruped familiars are the dwarf caiman, the giant flea, the koala, pig, and donkey rat.

Gorthug’s max load is 260, so he can drag 1300lbs. He is also immune to fatigue and exhaustion...and also doesn’t need sleep, food or water. Which goes to show that zombie labor is both cheap and effective.

Yeah, only like 25gp for a 1hd zombie for forever, right?

edit:

...the giant flea...

How is that even a hard choice? Mister Jumpy is the best tea-party guest you never had!

Also I just decided that Snowball will claim has claimed the hardest to reach island in the second flooded chamber for her bed/nest xD

Riding small familiars is completely legit. Just buy an exltic saddle for each one!

Riding small familiars is completely legit. Just buy an exltic saddle for each one!

Snowball I might have to steal some of your shinies in order to get a rideable Mr. Jumpy

That's actually why I was looking at the goat familiar first, since it might not have required a fancy saddle.

You can just take 'em. Snowball will bite but she can't do more than 2 damage XD

Just get a distraction so she'll forget about it before she remembers she has a breath weapon xD

You can just take 'em. She'll bite but she can't do more than 2 damage XD

Oh Noes! And Cindy has DR 2/-- !!

She's too busy stirring Bob the Thinky Soup to worry about it at this point. It's more of a player issue than a character issue. I don't think Cindy really understands the value of coins.

FLAWLESS PLAN XD

@Tina: BTW, Tina is immune to cold damage, right? :D

@Xeria: you mean the free check as a reaction to him ducking behind some vegitation, right?

Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.

I think we're all short a few rolls there xD

We also have been ignoring the 50% miss chance from total concealment :3

Undergrowth Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Acrobatics and Stealth checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way. Heavy undergrowth costs 4 squares of movement to move into and provides concealment with a 30% miss chance (instead of the usual 20%). It increases the DC of Acrobatics checks by 5. Heavy undergrowth is easy to hide in, granting a +5 circumstance bonus on Stealth checks. Running and charging are impossible. Squares with undergrowth are often clustered together. Undergrowth and trees aren’t mutually exclusive; it’s common for a 5-foot square to have both a tree and undergrowth.

Heavy provides 30% concealment, light gives 20%, neither provides total.

This is why I'm asking what's up - since I'm confused.

Stealth vs Perception is reactive, therefore free.
For Ripper, if the reactive check fails, then she can use Scent as an active perception, which is a move action.

I remembered the reason why Stealth has to be reactive in this case. Let's consider a person with -5 Stealth (they're in plate mail or something) crashing through the undergrowth. That person says, "aha! I'll used Stealth." That person rolls a 2-5 = -3. But somehow other people have to use an active perception to sense them?

Just because a person says they are using Stealth, doesn't mean everyone now has to actively search for them. If the person had time to settle in and camouflage themselves without someone looking at them and they stayed still, then sure, but not while running through a forest.

And since the halfling should be moving 10'-20' per round, I'd be hard pressed to think of any situation where someone moving a few feet from me can all of a sudden disappear entirely in light undergrowth so well that I'd have to wander around actively searching for them.

But that's why I'm asking, it's confusing to me, I want to understand what the interpretation of the rules are so I can abide by them. Since our lair is in a forest, I'd like to know the mechanics of the forest because we will be fighting in it a lot.

Xeria is entirely up for stealth checks being used this way, she has a +20 stealth and will be quite the terror in undergrowth.

I don't see clarification in stealth or perception of when stealth triggers a reactive perception check and when it requires an active perception check. It's just clarified that perception and stealth are the skills rolled against each other. So here's how I'm ruling:

1. Someone is stealthing toward you: reactive perception.

2. Someone is stealthing away from you and got a roll such that you wouldn't automatically see them: active perception.

3. Someone is stealthing away from you but you would notice them eith a nat 1 perception: You automatically know where they are with no action or roll.

Terrain: I've been letting people move full speed in this specific part of the forest. The halfling is ducking behind trees which are giving him enough cover to hide. You always know approximately where he is but not which tree he is behind. He is 60 ft from you right now because he's been moving ~35 ft away every round (not in the exact same direction always) and Xeria didn't move more than a 5 ft fly last round since she took a move action to perceive and a standard to fire.

The net situation here is such that the halfling has a chance to escape though it's not a good one. He's on 2 hp right now.

For loot, I've put a strike through on items that have been explicitly claimed. I'm guessing that after a while, we'll just have a pile of stuff in the cave as "group loot" and try to sell it in batches every now and then?

Also we could play dress up with @gorthug, try on all the robes and armors and shields and clothes, until he's just the loveliest and happiest draugr this side of the River Styx.

I fully support using him for dress up. And there will be no complaints even from the silliest of hats.

That is, until he gets his mind back.

Noice xD

Also, I liked this discussion about stealth, for anyone else interested in concealment and stealth.

Interesting, Snowball. Indeed different GMs rule stealth very differently. You guys are going to get all sorts of benefits from your incredibly stealthy party but we'll see how it goes. :)

@Gorthug, The most important question: Is it pronounced "Gor-Thug" or "Gort-hug"? I've been splitting the difference by alternating each time I say it in my head, and it's throwing me for a loop.

Also, If you move a single class level up to the front of your progression, you can get all kinds of nice proficiencies... If that's something you want, Just a thought.

Gor-thug is how I would do it. :)

As for proficiencies...that is indeed something I’d like. But the GM has shown his reluctance to rely on class levels. So my lvl plan focuses on adding templates.

The full stat plan looks like this sans equipment:

CR2: Current
Str (17) Dex (10) Con (-) Int (8) Wis (10) Cha (13)

CR3: Advanced Template
Str (21) Dex (14) Con (-) Int (12) Wis (14) Cha (17)

CR4: Nightmare Creature
Str (21) Dex (18) Con (-) Int (14) Wis (14) Cha (21)

CR5: Nightmare Lord
Str (21) Dex (20) Con (-) Int (16) Wis (14) Cha (23)

CR6: Mythos Undead
Str (25) Dex (20) Con (-) Int (16) Wis (16) Cha (27)

CR7-8: Shadow Lord
Str (25) Dex (24) Con (-) Int (16) Wis (16) Cha (31)

So...yeah. His light armor proficiency will become less and less relevant.

All that said dress him in anything you like. Part of the fun of this stage is taking a Hands off approach to things as mundane as “what weapon do I have” and “wearing pants”

I don't see clarification in stealth or perception of when stealth triggers a reactive perception check and when it requires an active perception check. It's just clarified that perception and stealth are the skills rolled against each other. So here's how I'm ruling:

1. Someone is stealthing toward you: reactive perception.

2. Someone is stealthing away from you and got a roll such that you wouldn't automatically see them: active perception.

3. Someone is stealthing away from you but you would notice them eith a nat 1 perception: You automatically know where they are with no action or roll.

Terrain: I've been letting people move full speed in this specific part of the forest. The halfling is ducking behind trees which are giving him enough cover to hide. You always know approximately where he is but not which tree he is behind. He is 60 ft from you right now because he's been moving ~35 ft away every round (not in the exact same direction always) and Xeria didn't move more than a 5 ft fly last round since she took a move action to perceive and a standard to fire.

The net situation here is such that the halfling has a chance to escape though it's not a good one. He's on 2 hp right now.

Thank you for the clarifications! I appreciate it.

I don't know the rules as well as the rest of you, so when you mentioned that he was using cover to use stealth during combat, I was surprised because I'd never known it was possible, and went to look it up. Which confused me and is why I asked.

So, active perception to see him requiring move action. Got it, now back to hunting the rodent.

Sorry to derail, I hope you didn't see this as trying to 'rules lawyer' you and second guess your interpretation, that was never my intention. The rules are always hugely interpretable and I want to make certain I can accurately act.

And thank you for simplifying the terrain aspects :D

Noice xD

Also, I liked this discussion about stealth, for anyone else interested in concealment and stealth.

Thanks for that article pointer!

'rules lawyer'

Did someone mention my favorite pasttime? :D

BTW, I figured it was 35 feet instead of 40, 'cause of difficult terrain in the final square
i.e. dashing behind a tree and then into a bush or something like that xD

If it weren't for the occasional tree blocking line of effect, I'd have argued that he can't hide his square from Snowball xD

Also remember, with this ruling it makes it very easy for us to run away with stealth too :D
All we have to do is roll higher than 1+ their perception bonus to waste their actions :3

Xeria wrote:

'rules lawyer'

Did someone mention my favorite pasttime? :D

BTW, I figured it was 35 feet instead of 40, 'cause of difficult terrain in the final square
i.e. dashing behind a tree and then into a bush or something like that xD

I was imaging it as more consistently undergrowth because running for 35' and then ducking behind a tree for 5' isn't really hiding. It's standing behind cover :D You know exactly where they are you just can't see them.

It's the equivalent of kids 'hiding' in 'hide and seek' :D

If it weren't for the occasional tree blocking line of effect, I'd have argued that he can't hide his square from Snowball xD

Also remember, with this ruling it makes it very easy for us to run away with stealth too :D
All we have to do is roll higher than 1+ their perception bonus to waste their actions :3

We don't even have to roll better consistently, the halfling rolled an 11 versus my 20+ and it meant I fell behind if I tried to attack. That set up this round for it to make it even farther. If Ripper didn't have Scent, we'd have lost the halfling already. I'm thinking I leave Ripper to move/sense and I occasionally pepper with acid splash then double move to keep up with Ripper.

With our superior speeds (as well as fly), we can do all sorts of guerilla tactics this way.

I was also thinking that we get the zombies/skeletons to build a few spiked pits out in the forest we can maneuver over. I don't think they are sufficiently dextrous enough to do anything more elaborate and only one of us has sufficient size and strength to do anything trap-wise

For loot, I've put a strike through on items that have been explicitly claimed. I'm guessing that after a while, we'll just have a pile of stuff in the cave as "group loot" and try to sell it in batches every now and then?

Also we could play dress up with @gorthug, try on all the robes and armors and shields and clothes, until he's just the loveliest and happiest draugr this side of the River Styx.

I'm thinking we keep Snowball happy by putting all of the group loot on his island as his dragon treasure pile.

traps near the entrance sounds fun. Maybe big pit traps between pairs of trees or something?

It's the equivalent of kids 'hiding' in 'hide and seek' :D

I agree xD

edit: Keeping group stuff in Snowball's pile is a bad idea since getting it out of the treasure-bed won't be easy once Snowball gets bigger xD

traps near the entrance sounds fun. Maybe big pit traps between pairs of trees or something?

I was thinking a bit farther away from the entrance, out in the forest so we can lead them on a chase and run over them. I don't want to anger our patron by doing earthworks right outside her door :D

edit: Keeping group stuff in Snowball's pile is a bad idea since getting it out of the treasure-bed won't be easy once Snowball gets bigger xD

I was thinking more the 'valueless' stuff :D

I'm happy to keep the candles, lanterns, extra pots and pans, and other assorted trinkets out there. The metal bits will make satisfactory noises when Snowball rolls around in his treasure pile and will give him something to sleep on. Maybe throw in some chainmail we can't use as his blanket. I don't think he's smart enough yet to figure out his 'treasure' pile isn't all that valuable. Plus we can use prestidigitation to clean up the metal bits and make them all sparkly which should make him happy :D

Oh and copper pieces, we put all of our pennies in his hoard :D

Snowball needs some time to work up to treasure type H.

HEY! Cindy still needs a pot and she collects assorted trinkets! They can't all go to Snowball's hoard!

(Especially as she'll be needing something to brew in next level due to cauldron hex, a pot is actually pretty mechanically needed lol)

That's why I put the qualifier 'extra' in front of pots and pans :D

I knew Cindy needed some.

Strangest party ever. Where the best armor we can use is light and only one of us actually needs a weapon. And where the loot most fought over are pots and holy symbols...

If you think about it, the fact that we can't just go to a shop and get random things most parties take for granted makes loot a very different thing than usual.

For example, a sewing kit is also on Cindy's list and that belt pouch was a HUGE catch.

Strangest party ever. Where the best armor we can use is light and only one of us actually needs a weapon. And where the loot most fought over are pots and holy symbols...

I know - most interesting party I've seen in years :D

It's fun being freed from the rat race of trying to constantly angle your items to maximize your benefit. Now, if you want a bonus to a stat, don't buy an item, pick up a template. Brilliant.

It's fun being freed from the rat race of trying to constantly angle your items to maximize your benefit.

Wait a sec..you're maximizing benefits? I'm looking at taking 1 level dips in multiple classes all for RP benefits and will be useless mechanically XD

Seriously though, looking forward I might have to ask GM about small bits of leeway on templates. There's really not that many at all that can be applied to constructs so I will probably have to ask "can I use this one even though it says living creatures only" several times.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/commando-const ruct-cr-varies/

Makes you into a combat construct

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/enlightened-co nstruct-cr-varies/

Makes you a psychic construct

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/runeplated-con struct-cr-1/

Makes you a runic construct

Yeah. There aren’t many

Gorthug: Don't think that I intend to discourage class levels. On the contrary, stacking class levels on monsters will be a lot of the fun of this campaign! I just think the "creature gains multiple class level features for +1 cr" templates are unbalanced and I want everyone to remain more monster than adventurer, hence max class levels are half your CR. By all means, put an awesome level of barbarian, fighter, or even bloodrager on that draugr!

Guerrilla tactics: Did someone just mention one of my favorite words? You guys will have increasing leeway to build/scheme/trap-fill this dungeon. I intend for us all to have a great deal of fun with it.

Ducking behind a tree: Well stealth is part of the move action so yeah he moves, gets a tree between you and him, moves to another tree, etc.

Xeria: Thanks for clarifying! I'm totally fine with rules questions. I often learn a lot about the rules from such questions. I'll be as fair/fun-promoting as I can but will have to make lots of interpretation calls that we'll all run with.

Loot: Yes you guys will be able to buy things eventually but it will be more interesting in the mean time.

Barbarian? Bloodrager? I’d love to! But undead can’t get morale bonuses, so...sadness.

But I’ll think about it. Perhaps once he gets his mind back it’d be a good way to represent it.

Sure thing, Gorthug. Also, I expect that we'll need to homebrew a spell or item that allows harmless mind-affecting things to affect undead. Perhaps also other mindless folks in case anyone ever decides to pick up bardic inspiration.

More on the halfling: I realize running and hiding like this through the forest in daytime is a little cheesy, which is why I haven't been imposing the distance/perception penalties. Also, he is taking the -5 for moving more than half speed but is moving less than his full speed so he can still stealth (hence the 35 ft of movement). Also, if he moved 40 ft further away that would be directly away and too obvious while also making it hard for him to zig zag quietly behind trees.

I found this:

https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vampire%20Savage

Undead Barbarian: An undead creature with the ability to enter a rage gains the morale bonuses from rage despite being immune to morale effects. The bonus to Constitution from the rage applies to an undead creature’s Charisma instead.

So....precedent? :)

And decided...Gorthug will need to take a level of Bloodrager with the Undead Bloodline.

Yeah I think that if you took a level of undead bloodrager then I'd let you have the vampire savage's undead barbarian abilities. Just too cool, ya know? But if it gets out of hand, I might have to re-negotiate something like halving the bonus to cha or what not.

Thanks!

I’ll just take the urban Bloodrager archetype. Because increased Cha can also mean increased spell slots and that’s just messy.

Edit: or original solution I proposed
+4 Str, but no Cha or Will and no AC penalty

Hmmm... that would be balanced, I think.

Urban is a good one. I will say though that temporary increases to a stat don't give extra spell slots, they just affect skills and saves and rolls. There's a precedence there with INT/WIS increasing potions and spells, and Paizo is very explicit somewhere in the rules (I'd have to find it) that spell slots are not affected by temporary ability score increases (or decreases)

Similarly there are't too many fey ones but here are some of my ideas:

I was thinking at some point Xeria might be messing around in the wizard's lab and get's into who knows what liquids in the alchemy part and gains Alchemical Quickness.

Even more weird would be uncorking a bottle and getting blighted fey or something nasty like that. I was thinking that might be part of the advancement to a new fey type. She contracts blighted fey (+2 CR), then on gaining a new CR, she'd 'cocoon' with the fungus and emerge a new fey (+3 CR transformation) Especially if she wanted to make the leap to a more human sized fey like a nymph. Sort of like a butterfly but far more gross to begin with.

She'd get to Pixie (CR 4), then do Advanced (+1) swap that for blighted (+2), cocoon up and emerge a nymph (CR 7) or something like that. I don't like giving up flight though, so I'd need to jump to Aerial (+1 CR) as well :D

That brings up a question, since we can respec and change as we grow, I'm assuming one way to handle getting a +2 CR template would be to take a +1 CR then swap that for the +2 CR otherwise you'd be sitting around waiting to gain 2 CRs.

There's also Seelie/Unseelie (3PP) ones in the SRD.

You could grab Aerial before cacooning up xD

Also, I know that I'm planning on swapping Advanced in and out for gaps in my desired CR progression xD

I was looking at the haunted construct templates. There's actually two of them, a +1 CR and a +2 CR. Would it be possible at some point in the future to take the +2? That one specifically involves being haunted by the wizard that made you. Might be extremely interesting RP wise after Mommy disappears

Yeah Cindy that can be discussed as we progress. ;)

Xeria: Yeah swapping template sin and out to stay under cap is the idea.

Poor Xeria...she's missing social / dress up time. I hope she's having fun out there.

she's more dedicated than I am in hunting down the intruder!

She has a bit of a mean/vindictive streak :D

Plus, she'd prefer to not have the halfling get away and give away info on us - yes, it could lead to more people coming to us and more fun toying with them. She just doesn't want them to know the disposition of our forces and abilities or to come in overwhelming force.

GM mentioned he had 2 HP left. She attacks...and he has 1 now. The guy is lucky as hell!

I hit him twice for 1 hp since GM said he was at 2 hp - he should be down now, but I'm waiting for the confirmation before she does a victory dance on his body :D

Possibly premature "YAY Xeria! Now bring Cindy her little running man trinket!!"

lol, I was planning on using Shrink Item to bring back his corpse for you :D