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I just saw the awesome humble bundle deal with the entire Shattered Star AP in it -- I had this idea for a PF1e celebration where we only use Paizo stuff but turn all the dials up to 111.
I'm trying to propose crazy build rules that can also be made in Herolab -- I don't use it but a lot of people do, so let me know what does or doesn't work people if there's any interest.
Biggest caveat: Paizo sources only. All Paizo, but only Paizo.
Stats: 102pt. buy (that's straight 18s), but no min or max.
Class: start at 1st level in 2 different classes (so second level). You also start with 1 level of an NPC class that reflects your pre-adventuring background.
Feats: you start with 45 feats. 4. 5. Have at it.
Equipment: 100,000 gold.
Hit Points: double maximum.
Skills: Background skills.
You can have any race or template, but this has to be a character that can function in Magnimar, where the campaign starts. If you're some crazy race/template combo that would frighten 99 percent of the population, you'll have to be under constant disguise or something.
And I want a good back story for really crazy stuff. I'll veto it if it's just a conglomeration of stats without any explanation.
...well, ok. will you also be buffing the module to compensate, or are we going straight steamroller? :D
No I'm going to buff it a great deal.
I was also looking at a couple of the classic modules on sale like Down the Midnight Path. I might try to stick one or two of those in as a sidetrek
Blink. Blink. Um. Gears are a turning.... so much to think about! Alright. Two questions. Is this level 2, or level 1 Gestalt? And do animal companions get any buffs?
I might suggest toning this down a bit as people will probably have a hard time even finding 45 feats they qualify at that level (at least useful ones).
I'm thinking about it. I sort of want to start 1 other game. I also have a recruitment for an Earthdawn campaign using Pathfinder 1e rules. Would either of you play that?
I am not familiar with Earthdawn at all. For me the draw of this game is that, even without 3PP feats to accomplish specific things, 45 feats for the Paizo sandbox is nice. I've certainly been able to find that many that would never make it in a real game with 10 feats, but would pull in here. Like Nature Magic; great for a traveler of the wilderness. Constant Know Direction and Create Water 1/day?
I keep wanting to play a mounted inquisitor, so I'd hope that we could buff the animal companion with a template / point buy / more feats, or even transfer some of those bonuses from the character to the animal companion.
There are also retraining rules for later in life, too.
Yeah, I'd be open to buffing the animals.
Let's see if we get more interest and I'll tweak the build rules. Apparently you can do gestalt, just not gestalt mythic in HeroLab. The only reason I was dividing it is because I thought you couldn't do gestalt in HeroLab.
Earthdawn will be hard to play if you've never played the original rules and have familiarity with the setting. It was the first RPG I started with when I was 8 (I'm in my 30s now), and I have a softspot for it because of that. It's a setting with lore comparable in breadth to Forgotten Realms.
Don't know Earthdawn myself.
I suppose I could find a way to use 45 feats if I tried (Herolab does list over 2k in my collection of licenses).
Though starting with 100k GP makes me think aristocrat is the mandatory NPC class.
Lol i knew this thread was coming^^
Just for crazyness, i'm onboard.
Not familiar with Earthdawn, only heard of it, but as always i'm open to try out stuff. Maybe better than the AP.
But don't overextend yourself, there's already a bunch of games running, so you don't get GM fatigue.
Re.: classes, is this like a tristalt?
Could you give some more information how you imagine putting together the 3 classes there? Best of everything like in gestalt? Or add hp, saves, etc.? That would make level 3 though.
It sounds like maybe:
L1: NPC class
L2+: Gestalt (any two Paizo classes)
Is that right?
Re: point buy, I've seen two different ways to calculate above 18:
a) just keep going with every new point costing 3 (e.g. 17=18, 20=19, 23=20, 26=21, 29=22...)
b) keep increasing the cost at every even number (e.g. 17=18, 20=19, 24=20, 28=21, 33=22...)
Which are you doing? (Or something else?)
Putting in my interest. I'll see if I can come up with something interesting.
@gyrfalcon: standard pt. buy costs the amount that the new stat modifier would be. Raising it to 20 would be 26 points. Reducing an ability to 1 would get you 25 extra points.
1 = -5
3,2 = -4
5,4 = -3
7,6 = -2
9,8 = -1
11,12,13 = 1
14,15 = 2
16,17 = 3
18,19 = 4
20,21 = 5
etc...
Wow, I can a long break from the boards and come back to this. I'm interested though.
I'm going to try making a aasimar half-celestial paladin/cleric. Should be able to get all the channeling feats no one usually bothers with as well as the aasimar racial feats which i have always wanted to try.
Good thinking, I'm unsure of my class combo at the moment. Wanted to get a general feel for the alignment people are going to hover around.
Scaled Fist UC Monk/ElderMythos Cleric/Expert half demon tiefling using a tetsubo and who counts as human, but also has a real good disguise.
Maybe i could make that uc barbarian/oracle as well, but i have to check.
Love this character so far.
I think all stats have to be 18 though, since you usualy can't go over 18. Also that makes exactly 102 points.
I like the 'everyone is an aristocrat' idea.
Question for HeroLab users while I mull and updated build rules post -- can HeroLab handle Tristalt/Quadralt, or only Gestalt with 2?
Hero Lab only does Gestalt.
Never used it, so I’m unsure of its limitations. I generally use Archives of Nethys, PFSRD, and pen and paper.
What Unchained, etc. Ultimate Combat rules can HeroLab do: background skills, etc.
(Finds a hat to throw into the ring.)
Lets do this, your getting the crazy aussie in here!
Btw just wondering. will you allow the use of templates?
[Edit] Nvm noticed you allowed it at the bottom of the post.
Any race any template -- you can be a half dragon fiendish drow noble, etc. if your heart so desires. I just want a good story for any concept.
All good, so many toys I can play with, I feel like a child in a candy shop were I can have anything I want as long as I say please properly!
You can start thinking about things but I need to have a little to consider the rest of the build questions like the animal issue and be-able to repost, so don't set anything in stone yet. We're definitely switching to gestalt since that's possible in HeroLab, and I need to consider a couple of other issues.
Well at the moement I am considering a Rogue/Barbarian with ether lycanthropy or elementally infused
Well, consider me interested.
an elemental infused lycanthrope.....if you will allow it then hell yes XD
just come up with a good story
Already working on it.
Okay. Here's my current character idea:
Alexandru Nirodin of House Nirodin, son of Cheiskaia Nirodin.
1. Aristocrat
2. Wizard
3. Swashbuckler (maybe fighter, idk)
And I am to mash these classes together as a super class or trigalt? Or have the NPC class stand alone, then add a gestalt of wizard/swashbuckler? It wasn't quite clear how you wanted it.
EDIT: Seeing how there is a limited supply of noble houses for aristocrat characters in Magnimar to be a part of, I'd be happy to work along with another character submission's backstory to incorporate cousins, brothers, sisters, or even twins in House Nirodin, if so desired.
You can also add a template if you desire do not forget.
Herolab can do unchained and most other alternative rules, but some stuff gets a bit wonky.
Especially with the gestalt option enabled, it's getting messed up sometimes.
It's also possible to add templates there, i got only the Paizo templates.
Also i just confused Magnimar with Kaer Maga^^
What Unchained, etc. Ultimate Combat rules can HeroLab do: background skills, etc.
As Hayato said, Hero Lab can pretty much do anything Paizo has out, and a fair number of 3rd party stuff. Things which are neither (gestalt is a carry over from 3.5) are in additions by users and can be a touch flaky. I do find that gestalt works pretty well for the most part though.
How would you do gestalt in herolab?
I'm gonna be submitting a Wizard/kineticist(Dark Elementalist and Blood Kineticist).
Also do we get traits? Not that it's needed considering we get 45 feats, just curious?
How would you do gestalt in herolab?
There's a community pack you add to your sources which enables gestalt characters. One in place you build a character by adding gestalt levels, then levels of the two classes. Those are then selected under a gestalt tab. It works well for most things, though bugs are known to crop up.
Here is the thread on it at the Hero Lab forums.
So for Paizo only, I would probably want to run a Half Orc Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor / Urban Crossblooded (Arcane & Abyssal) Bloodrider Bloodrager, VMC Cavalier specializing in melee, tanking, some healing, and intimidation tactics. He would share out TW feats to other melee members, and be pretty good at Aid Another too.
A couple requests for Sebecloki:
Technically, I believe Crossblooded and Urban conflict, as they both modify the Will bonus. My request would be to change the Crossblooded from no bonus / reduced bonus to Will to an explicit -2 penalty, which should stack with Urbans removal of the bonus. I would also like to use a wolf mount, with the Undersized Mount feat and retraining it once the wolf grew to Large at 7th, which is not explicitly allowed in the bloodrider class feature since a Half-Orc is Medium, not Small.
With undersized mount you can ride a mount your size, so if the wolf is medium shouldn't be a problem.
Coincidentally there's this relatively new video on the Paizo youtube channel about Magnimar.
Didn't see those myself yet, watching just now.
Hope it's good^^
Hayato, that’s certainly reasonable. And I hope Sebecloki agrees. However, RAW only a small character can select a wolf mount. Small characters also get an expanded list at 4th when small mounts would become medium, but Medium characters do not get similar text for medium mounts advancing to Large at 7th, and there’s no RAW provision for Undersized Mount to interact with the allowed list of mounts.
You’ve learned techniques that allow you to ride beasts of smaller sizes than normal.Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.
Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you.
I'm not sure what you mean, but i don't think that is mount list dependant. Should apply to all mounts and animal companions, since all are "creatures".
So as a medium creature you normaly can only ride large creatures, but with this feat you can now ride medium creatures.
How would you do gestalt in herolab?There's a community pack you add to your sources which enables gestalt characters. One in place you build a character by adding gestalt levels, then levels of the two classes. Those are then selected under a gestalt tab. It works well for most things, though bugs are known to crop up.
Here is the thread on it at the Hero Lab forums.
Thank you!
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Okay, I've had a chance to look at what I want to do, and here are the revised build rules
MOST IMPORTANT: ALL and ONLY Paizo materials, NO third party anything at all.
Otherwise, my goal is to provide a lot of options without introducing anything that entrails unusual or complicated rules exceptions -- basically just adding on numbers, features, not essentially changing anything.
Stats: 102 pt. buy. That should be straight 18s, but there's no min/max. If you want 40 in one score, you can dump others, etc.
Feats: 45 feats at level 1. Thereafter, EACH side of the gestalt advances as if a Fighter for feat allocation. So that's another 2-4 feats per level. The bonus feat can be used for anything you want, not just combat feats.
Race/template: as long as you can justify it storywise, any race/template combination is allowed.
Class: 5th level gestalt (Shattered Star goes up to 15th level, and the first adventure ends at 5th level, so I'm starting you off where you'd end the first adventure, and I'm going to raise the ceiling so that the final adventure starts off at 20th).
Skills: Background skills from Unchained.
Starting Gold: 880,000gp.
Hit Points: Double maximum every level.
These are build rules but I need a good character story -- I reserve the right to veto anything I think you're phoning in without any fluff justification. You need a fluff reason for your wealth. You don't need to be a human aristocrat. For example, you can be an alien merchant from a rich mining company that's living in cognitio in Magnimar.
Animal companions are built using the same rules as for characters where it applies (ask me questions so I can figure out what else I need to clarify)
Finally, for combat, we will use this system: every round you declare whether you're using the ordinary or the unchained action economy (you can switch back and forth). I find unchained easier to deal with from the DM side, but I don't want to complicate the swift action issue by requiring it, so we'll just use both.
Also, I'm not in a hurry to get started -- we can take 3-4 weeks to make characters at a leisurely pace, I've got plenty of other games to keep up with.
Hayato, that’s certainly reasonable. And I hope Sebecloki agrees. However, RAW only a small character can select a wolf mount. Small characters also get an expanded list at 4th when small mounts would become medium, but Medium characters do not get similar text for medium mounts advancing to Large at 7th, and there’s no RAW provision for Undersized Mount to interact with the allowed list of mounts.
There's a PFS FAQ that addresses the archetype situation: I'm going to exercise DM purview to allow it with the solution you've suggested, which I think is fair.
I'm fine with the mount issue -- I generally allow you to read the rules to your benefit if its ambiguous
Sorcerer, Crossblooded and Wildblooded: Can I take both of these archetypes for the same character?
No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes.
Note that it is certainly within the GM's purview to allow this combination. However, the character should not be able to use the crossblooded archetype's ability to select a lower-level bloodline power that was replaced by the wildblooded archetype. For example, a wildblooded brutal (abyssal) sorcerer replaces "strength of the abyss" with "wings of the abyss" at 9th level; the character has "paid" for the wildblooded archetype by giving up "strength of the abyss," and can't use the crossblooded bloodline to select "strength of the abyss" as her 15th-level or 20th-level bloodline power.