In the bestiary introduction it says:
Space/Reach: The creature's space and reach—if the creature's space and reach are standard (one 5-foot square and a reach of 5 feet), this line is omitted.
However, if you look at the size chart at the 3rd footnote, there's this:
These values are typical for creatures of the indicated size. Some exceptions exist.
As I said, my physical copy of the bestiary 2, and the Paizo's PRD both omit the space/reach line for the Silvanshee, while the entry on the PFSRD had the standard tiny space/reach.
Obviously, it's very possible my copy was errata'd, less likely Paizo's site wasn't updated.
When I brought it up on the PFSRD group, John Reyst the owner of the site, looked into it, and as far as he can tell, there was never any errata for the Silvanshee. His PDF copy of bestiary 2 is a first print from 2010, and the entry for the Silvanshee on his site was never edited. Meaning for some reason, it was given the default space/reach.
*******
As for the question about how a 5th level character has a Silvanshee, Seb granted it to me as my animal companion(gained via Nature Soul and Animal Ally.)
Had a think, what I am asking is do, my fellow players [If picked] feel that drow deeper darkness is to much, and would get in the way of game play. {Given how I suggested it be used} would it be better to change or remove it?
For myself, Deeper Darkness won't bother me at all. As far as using it as a frequent combat tactic... that starts to get iffier. In an arms race between the players and the DM, the DM can always win, and it's not necessarily fun to invest a lot of resources into your schtick and then have it be invalidated when the only combats we get into are with Devils. I personally go for See in Darkness so that an enemy throwing Deeper Darkness at me gets a surprise, or to be super sneaky on a stealth mission; not to use if myself to get combat advantages.
Deeper darkness would just be another obstacle for Alexandru to overcome. Go for it.
Imma have Blindsense and a Truthful sword. Go nuts
I wouldn't have a problem with that usage.
How i know our beloved GM so far, there will be answers to any strenghts we have anyway :)
I abstained from it, since the nightmare fist feat was my original point of entry to any kind of darkness there.
Now that i know several ways to circumvent it thanks to the feedback here, i don't mind it that much either.
I mean anyone can have it as a spell, just not as "at will" spam. :)
All right. Think I've mostly finished feat selection and got stats and magic items sorted. Now to formulate this monster into a stat block... see you in two months...
So... I am making a Jekyll and Hyde monster. A sort of torn Vigilante. Sebecloki, are you okay with an Advanced Gargoyle Slayer/Vigilante?
that's fine
You mentioned we're starting this week, Sebecloki? Is that still the plan, or are you pushing it off a bit?
In any case, it might be fun for those of us who are done with our characters to RP a bit, maybe frame it as "waiting in a room for our employer/other adventurers to arrive," which, as I understand the start of SS, seems to be about right.
I have two rules questions:
1) swift actions in surprise round?
2) free actions in AoO?
I can't seem to find a definitive answer!
On surprise rounds;
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Since it specifically states you may take a move, standard, or free actions, it would seem to imply that you may not use swift actions.
However, there is a relevant bit of text for swift actions; You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
So, seems like yes.
On free actions during Attacks of Opportunity;
The implication of the rules is that you may not take free actions when it is not your turn. Relevant rules text;
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.
On Speaking during combat; In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn.
On Free Actions in combat; You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
On Swift Actions; You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
On Immediate Actions; However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
On Attacks of Opportunity;
Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work.
An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you’ve already attacked in the round.
An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn).
--
From all this we can extrapolate that as far as the action economy is concerned, an attack of opportunity is not an action and can't benefit from things like free actions unless some ability specifically allows it.
core of background in place, I'm working on an expanded
Thanks for the very clear answers, @ElegantlyWasted!
My IRL class is Lawful Neutral Rules Lawyer >.>
Archetypes; Rule of Cool and You Can't Remember Them All
core of background in place, I'm working on an expanded
I have to get my backstory up, but I cant figure out how to submit it to the specific alias. I'm on vacation right now, but if I can figure it out I'll have it up tomorrow night when I get home, or Friday.
So I've got a build in the Profile, and an idea, which I have to put to paper...
I keep tinkering with my build. It's almost getting to be a problem. Still, it's fun and I'm pretty sure I keep invalidating previous feats with my choices that I'm missing in my updates, but oh well. At this point, I'm mainly trying to get INT as high as possible while still maintaining a cohesive story. Currently it's at 56, but who knows if that'll creep up more as time goes on.
I keep tinkering with my build. It's almost getting to be a problem. Still, it's fun and I'm pretty sure I keep invalidating previous feats with my choices that I'm missing in my updates, but oh well. At this point, I'm mainly trying to get INT as high as possible while still maintaining a cohesive story. Currently it's at 56, but who knows if that'll creep up more as time goes on.
That's impressive! I keep tweaking things too. Or discovering this feat or that one I never looked at before, but could make cool synergies more apparent. I also keep thinking of cool 3rd party tricks that would take things over the top too, but I'm not complaining!
How do you get to 56?!?!?
Well, a base of 26, costing 65 points, with a +2 Racial bonus for 28. Then Advanced brings it up to 32, Elemental-infused adds another +4, Half-fiend brings it to 40, and Psychic Vampire tops it to 44. Then, +1 from level up for 45, a Tome of Clear Thought +5 adds another 5, and lastly, a Headband of Mental Superiority finishes it off to 56.
I think I can go further, though.
The really fun part is spinning it all into a cohesive story. So far, I think I'm doing pretty well, and I've set up a logical coherence that allows for more templates to be added without massive story rewrites, but it's still tricky.
Question for Sebeclocki: do templates with HD requirements still stand? I figure we at least need to be the right creature type (so no making an Undead Construct), but (for an example that doesn't exactly apply), the Vampire template requires 5 HD. If we were starting at level 1, would it be allowed to have the standard Vampire template? I'm not talking about templates that improve with HD, just ones that have a "you must have X hit dice to enter" requirement.
Interesting... Now I feel that I should at least try to reach such heights!
I mean, I can't stop you. It's quite fun, really.
But I will warn you. Madness lies this way.
I was able to get my Cha to 40. I started at a 20, as I needed some other solid stats for my build.
Ended with:
Str: 26
Dex: 34
Con: 18
Int: 26
Wis: 30
Cha: 40
I haven't decided if I'm going buy a tome for my Cha, but if I do, I'll only go with a +4 cuz I *hate* odd numbers for my stats, lol
Well, that's where the level bonus comes in. But yes, not having to worry about Constitution (being undead) is nice, but I still managed to squeeze out:
Str 28, Dex 40, Con -, Int 56, Wis 34, Cha 44
Would anyone believe that I'm still kind of holding back a bit? Last time I went all out... I kind of broke the game. In half. And it's why I didn't want Mythic to start. The brokenness the Mythic templates allow for... *shudder.* There comes a point where it is absolutely impossible to challenge a party (or just a character), and Mythic allows for that.
My crunch is almost entirely done.
However it *was* done with the assumption that as the rules indicate we can combine items in the same slot with a 50% increase to the less expensive item. Is that the case?
For those of you considering Teamwork feats, I have;
Broken Wing Gambit
Outflank
Shake it Off
You have 4 templates,
Advanced Template CR1
Element-Infused Creature CR1 [3pp]
Half-fiend CR1
Psychic Vampire [CR2]
Dose this mean one whole side of your Gestalt is CR?
If not, I think ill grab 3 more templates as well. :)
I mean, he said we could be a half-dragon half-fiend if we have a good enough story, so...
Also, Half-Fiend(Balor) is +2 CR, and while Element-infused is a 3pp template, Elemental-infused is not. It’s a really easy mistake to make (I made it myself just a little while ago).
Yaaa, going to see how many templates I can add to my PC, I think I can do 12+ adding the class ones as well.
So
Yep I can get this in one big back story no problem.
A Drow Noble, taken and Experimented on by a mage powerful Wizard come want to be half god.
Drow Noble -
Fey Creature Template
Half-Celestial Template
Half-Fiend Template
Half-Dragon Template
Advanced Template
Muntent Template
Ranger Simple Class Template
Rogue Simple Class Template
Sorcerer Simple Class Template
Wizard Simple Class Template
Element-infused Template
Animal Lord Template
Graveknight Template
Shadow Lord Template
The pain the agony the revenge!!.
Yeah, see that's a bit too nonsense for my tastes, massively stacking templates just cuz the game allows it.
Even if you gave a good story.
Also, Daedalus,
Just remember, as awesome as you might build something, the GM can always make something worse.
If you broke a game with mythic it just meant your GM wasn't willing to step up and break you.
:)
Have to agree with Monkeygod on this one,
No stacking Templates for me,
I like my Drow Noble Shadow lord just the way she is.
Yeah.... I like to at least keep a cohesive story. Hence why I only have a single class template, and that one was even a full class early in my Ronodin's formation. It's fun stacking templates, and I know it amounts to nothing in the end, I just like the challenge mainly. I see PF as a puzzle, and unlimited template stacking is one way I don't often get to work with when making characters. I'll tune back if needed once the game begins, but I like seeing how far I can climb before then. In this case, I'm trying to get INT as high as I possibly can, and anything beyond that is really more of a bonus. With the way I'm hoping to play Ronodin, his absurd DC for his abilities won't matter too much- his Fireballs will land regularly, yes, and the occasional save-or-lose he throws will be kept to a minimum. What it impacts more, though, is having all the skills and getting as many support spells as possible. Honestly, if I keep him in melee (which I might), his attack stats aren't out of line with what most submissions would present (I hope, at least), he just has really good defense.
In this case, I'm trying to break the game, yes. But I'm trying to break it in the least disruptive way possible, if that makes any sense.
Also, when I say I broke the game, though.... I mean I broke the game in a way like Pun-Pun broke 3.5. The main point was having RAW (and arguably even RAI by a loose interpretation) at-will Wish that broke the game ultimately. But I'm getting sidetracked now.
Edited for a couple extra points.
Why are you trying to break the game in the first place??
Like, you realize this is a group effort right??
My PC is specialized in skills(particularly diplomacy and other social skills)),
But if your PC can stream roll him cuz you lack the ability to reign yourself in, why am I even bothering to make a character? Why are any of us?
At this point, it might as well be a solo game just for Daedalus.
Like, my whole concept is Cha focused and you 'accidentally' have a higher or equal Cha.
Utterly ridiculous.
I try to break the game because that's what I find fun. Like I said, I'll gladly dial back parts of my character if it becomes a problem. When I try to make a super OP character, I usually push them into a support role, as to not just overpower everything. Yes, I have absurd stats, but if it all works out, most of it won't even matter. I have the crazy overpowered character yes, but ideally, it won't overshadow the others. I know it's a group activity, and it's why I didn't load Ronodin up with a bunch of save-or die spells.
My combat strategy is basically something like: Haste the group, buff the group, then debuff the enemies (probably via negative levels). I'm still limited by action economy, after all.
I'm sorry Dαedαlus, but I'm with MonkeyGod on this one, you may be having a great time but your starting to look like you want to take the fun away from others. Looking at the submissions, close to all of them have self limited templates to 1 or 2, or used one side of our gestalt to pay the higher CR. We got it that doing this aids with balance. Your aim as stated is not that, your aim is to build a Pan Pan.
So a suggestion, you play at a table of 1, your PC +GM. While we others with close to balanced PCs play on another. Your table can be where you can try and brake the game while the GM 'fits the hits' to match you power level. While our table will have challenges that are on an even level or close to it for the party.
I actually said I was trying to avoid building pun-pun, but I see your point.
I'll probably scale back my templates to just what I had at the start (psychic vampire), as that was more central to my build, and see how it goes from there. *shrug* It's always tough balancing my desire to try and push it just a *bit* further, and keeping it balanced with everyone else. I'll keep both versions on hand, and see how it goes from there.
I'm absolutely a munchkin, but I still do my best to make sure everyone has fun and their time to shine.
EDIT: Okay, having done so now, it's ultimately the same character, just with lower numbers. If, when it comes to it, I'll keep lowering stats until my numbers are more in line with the party as a whole. He's still powerful, yes, but closer to the 'base' line that seems to be prevalent. I had my fun raising INT, this one is more balanced.
Str 22, Dex 32, Con -, Int 48, Wis 28, Cha 38
I actually wanted to bring up... AC is getting a little on the silly side for me. Obviously the GM can just add whatever number he darn well pleases to a to hit and make it manageable but we're getting into the 60's and it's not even too shenanigan-y. Is this okay? Should we dial things back a bit?
Heck, is everyone making a character actually going to be playing? Or will you only be selecting X people?
Inquiring minds want to knooooooooow
@Dαedαlus,
Thanks, Its hard sometimes you just want to go for it, but part of being a good players is not seeking to out do the whole party, I feel.
@EleganltyWasted
I think this one falls under balance again. Self limit to aid the GM give a challenge.
I went with one template (Half Dragon) for my PC, and two (Half Dragon and Shadow Animal) for the animal companion. That said, I'd easily drop the Half Dragon from Janelk if it was an issue. I've avoided undead templates by personal preference, and decided to keep a more even statline than push any one super high.
As it stands, the stat lines are:
Caramon (PC): STR: 34, DEX: 24, CON:30 , INT 28: , WIS: 25, CHA: 26 (Includes +6 enhancement items)
Janelk (AC): STR: 35, DEX: 31, CON: 34, INT: 16, WIS: 26, CHA: 20 (Includes +6 enhancement items to physical scores and Wisdom)
I understand where Daedalus is coming from - I find it very enjoyable to "break" or "win" the game too. For me that means hitting my goal, as defined by the sandbox (Character generation and house rules) and actual goal - do the most damage, have the highest speed, make the most attacks, know the most spells, have the most skills associated with a single score, make a double-sword wielding melee fighter, etc. "Winning" is just picking a goal and then optimizing to that goal from all the available puzzle pieces. I am a systems engineer IRL, but pathfinder lets me do what I love without having to convince management to approve my budget. Works very nicely for me.
@Elegantly Wasted, if your AC is unhittable, the GM will target your saves, or touch AC, or use auto-hit mechanics. Maybe you will walk into a trap you didn't search for, etc. However, if ALL of those items are 20+ higher than anyone else, then yeah - a little self limiting may be in order as GM_Panic suggests.
I took one regular template, half-celestial, and several class ones(which don't really add too much and I felt were flavorful for the concept of my PC). It's the taking of 4+ templates that are all really powerful or add a lot to the PC that things start to get outta hand and unfair for the other PCs.
If I really wanted to get ridiculous, I could take the druid template, so I get access to Flame Blade. Then, I would be able to take Flame Blade Dervish and be truly nonsense in my damage output.
My AC is currently sitting at 32, but will probably end up in the mid 40s once I buy magic items.
I went with one template (Half Dragon) for my PC, and two (Half Dragon and Shadow Animal) for the animal companion. That said, I'd easily drop the Half Dragon from Janelk if it was an issue. I've avoided undead templates by personal preference, and decided to keep a more even statline than push any one super high.
As it stands, the stat lines are:
Caramon (PC): STR: 34, DEX: 24, CON:30 , INT 28: , WIS: 25, CHA: 26 (Includes +6 enhancement items)
Janelk (AC): STR: 35, DEX: 31, CON: 34, INT: 16, WIS: 26, CHA: 20 (Includes +6 enhancement items to physical scores and Wisdom)
I understand where Daedalus is coming from - I find it very enjoyable to "break" or "win" the game too. For me that means hitting my goal, as defined by the sandbox (Character generation and house rules) and actual goal - do the most damage, have the highest speed, make the most attacks, know the most spells, have the most skills associated with a single score, make a double-sword wielding melee fighter, etc. "Winning" is just picking a goal and then optimizing to that goal from all the available puzzle pieces. I am a systems engineer IRL, but pathfinder lets me do what I love without having to convince management to approve my budget. Works very nicely for me.
@Elegantly Wasted, if your AC is unhittable, the GM will target your saves, or touch AC, or use auto-hit mechanics. Maybe you will walk into a trap you didn't search for, etc. However, if ALL of those items are 20+ higher than anyone else, then yeah - a little self limiting may be in order as GM_Panic suggests.
There's also stuff like insane Intimidation builds (like what if the baddie has +50 Intimidation and makes everyone cower in a corner or run away), sonic damage, and ethereal creatures. For any specific thing I'm sure I can google fu some solution someone's come up with to deal with X issue.
Intimidation build is pretty much where I was going... Is that ok?
you can use it, that doesn't mean I won't use it too :)
What's going on here?
My AC is in the 60ies as well and i also have a high CHA and DEX, but +11 comes from items and +8+ AC as well, so that is adjustable easily.
Next week i'm gonna have real internet again, then i'll check for myself with the benchpressing table and make some comparisons.
My gut tells me with the power present we should aim at level 12 there, but we could restrict it to lower and everyone being green or blue.
That's the best way to find balance partywide.
you can use it, that doesn't mean I won't use it too :)
That's rather scary actually.
Iakyth was built with only the half-draong template, and his stats as they stand are currently: Str 32, Dex 24, Con 28, Int 20, Wis 28, Cha 26, with an AC of 42 before casting any buff spells on himself.
However, I also sacrificed +6 enhancement bonus items to all stats in favor of manuals and tomes for all my stats, as I figured it would be easier to upgrade those throughout the course of the game.
Meh i was just about to add the bardic and rogue creature templates to my build, among others :D