Mystic Theurge Spell Selection

Looking at Oracle of Lore and Arcane Sorcerer.

the sorc has spells known as if lvl 11 and the oracle as if lvl 8.

If this character was a PFS character what spells would you suggest, and also what would you say the top 10 impacting spells were in PFS up to lvl 5 spells.

As some added help here's a bit of the character break down

I'm debating going cross blooded or not on the sorc side
1-Oracle (Lore, side step secret (Deaf curse)
4 - Sorcerer (Arcane)
7 - Mystic Theurge

so far some I was considering were
Oracle side
1- moment of greatness, shield of faith, obscuring mist, santuary, air bubble
2 - consecrate (for feat req consecrated) shield other, align weapon, lesser restoration, Silence, status
3- Archons Aura, magic circle,
4- Blessing of Fervor, Restoration, Freedom of movement

for Sorc side

1-Enlarge, feather fall, silent emage, magic missile, true strike
2- stone call, false life, bears endurance, resist energy, opressive boardum, mirror image, glitterdust
3- Sleet storm, heroism, haste, slow, stonecall
4 - Dimensional anchor, Telekentic charge, Enervation, Dimension Door, Greater invis
5 - Cloudkill, telepathic link, feeblemind, icy prison

Feats: Eschew material, Silent (auto done and free),
Picked up feats: Quicken, Consecrated and I'm debating between spell focus or just grabbing more like still, etc...

Just to clarify for you, the earliest you can take levels in Mystic Theurge as a Sorcerer/Oracle is lvl 9. You need to be able to cast 2nd lvl spells for both classes to qualify for MT, and both classes get 2nd lvl spells at 4th level. Thus, Sorc 4/Oracle4 is what will be needed to qualify for MT; at 9th lvl you could be Sorc 4/Oracle 4/MT 1, and you would cast spells as if 5th lvl in both classes.

In order to cast spells as an 11th lvl sorcerer and 8th lvl Oracle, you would need to be Sorcerer 7/Oracle 4/MT 4, thus 15th lvl.

If you are playing this from lvl 1 this becomes very difficult once you start getting into your second class. Around lvl 7 and 8 you are still casting just 2nd lvl spells but the full spellcasters are using 4th lvl spells. If you are coming in at higher levels (12+) its not quite as bad, but you will still be 2 levels in spellcasting behind the straight spellcasters, although you will have caught up with the mid range casters (bards, inquisitors, etc).

The concept is good, as all your spells are based on Cha, and you get some additional benefits from the Oracle levels (Cha to AC/Ref saves and to Knowledge checks from Lore revelations). But your lower caster level and mid range spells are going to hurt if trying to use those offensively; SR becomes a major problem and save DCs suffer as well.

You might want to consider taking one class as a prepared caster and the other as spontaneous. This helps in that the one class still has access to all the spells instead of just limited spells known, while the other has the constant access to its spells known.

The only way to do MT and keep the same casting stat for both classes and being a full spellcaster for both classes aside from Sorc/Oracle that I can think of is cleric/Empyreal Sorc, as the Empyreal Sorc uses wisdom for casting. This reduces the levels you need to get into MT by 1 (cleric 3/Sorc 4) and gives full access to the entire cleric spell list. You lose out on the "best stat to AC/Reflex" ability though.

But to your original question, since your caster levels and save DCs are going to lag behind for your level you should focus on things like buffing, healing, utility, and battlefield control, and find spells that don't rely on high caster levels and saves. Pick one of your classes to be your "offensive" class and take the Magical Knack Trait for it to alleviate the caster level loss somewhat. (Also take Spell Penetration, thats almost required for a MT. Elf or Half elf with Elven Spirit feat also get a boost to overcoming SR.) The other class becomes your buff/utility class, so you don't need to worry about saves or SR with that one.

You'll probably want to focus on Conjuration and Transmutation spells as a lot of times these don't have saves or SR. Wall spells, fog/cloud spells, some illusion spells, etc, tend to be the best as far as offensive spells go. The ones you have chosen so far are pretty solid. For spontaneous casters always look for spells that have multiple uses, such as Wall of Stone (battlefield control, shelter, a bridge, etc.) or things like Polymorph instead of Elemental Body or Alter self.

I look at the MT as more the ultimate utility knife as opposed to a longsword. You should have a spell for every occasion, you're just not good at blasting people in the face. Thats one reason I prefer a prepared caster to spontaneous for this, as you can leave some spell slots open so that if you come across a problem you can take a few minutes and prepare the needed spell; meanwhile you still have your full complement of spontaneous spells from the other class ready. Again, cleric works well since you have full access to the entire spell list.

As some added help here's a bit of the character break down

I'm debating going cross blooded or not on the sorc side

I can help with that. NO! You'd be trading spells at every level (the only thing you really get) for an arcana and a choice between 2 first level powers. Don't do it.

I would not go deaf curse. The spell failure risk on your sorcerer side will be too much. (Casting with free silence only effects your oracle side, despite not explicitly saying so.)

For spells, long duration buffs are going to be especially important because you're going to have more slots to spend. As such greater magic weapon will be an especially good choice. Other than that your spell selection looks fine, really, a lot of spell selection is just personal preference.

For feats, I would avoid over loading on metamagic, you're going to be worse at using them than a normal caster because your spell progression has been set back. (Both by using sorcerer and by the dip necessary to go mystic theurge.) I'd probably go generic good stuff feats if you don't really have a plan for them. (Improved Initiative, augment summoning, etc.)

Just to clarify for you, the earliest you can take levels in Mystic Theurge as a Sorcerer/Oracle is lvl 9.

This isn't actually true any more, it was modified by an FAQ. The quickest a person can get into mystic theurge is level 4, though it would probably require wood oracle and aasimar. I'm not sure how he's getting in with 4 sorc, 1 oracle without wood oracle. . .

There are lots of entry points with the new FAQ.

Aasimars can have either a l2 arcane or l2 divine sla. A divine sla together with 4 levels of sorcerer qualifies

I forget that they've updated that FAQ so many times. Spell like abilities now follow the whole wizard / cleric / druid / bard order rather than "arcane unless divine for a good reason" right?

Well given the FAQ an Aasimar can satisfy the arcane side, and a Agathoian blooded aasimar could satisfy the divine side. So an Agathoian blooded aasimar could go Sorcerer 4/Oracle 1 then straight into MT. That certainly makes things a lot easier.

Quick glance at the other races give:

Any assimar with Heavenly radiance feat and at least 5th character level can take searing light as SLA to satisfy divine
Half elf with Drow blooded for arcane
Drow can satisfy arcane
Fetchling of 9th lvl in any class combination satisfies the arcane
Tieflings can satisfy arcane
Duergar can satisfy arcane
Svirfneblin can satisfy arcane

There might be some other combinations I didn't see, similar to the Heavenly Radiance feat for aasimars.

Why do you think that the deaf curse doesn't apply to all spell casting if you don't mind me asking.

It explicitly says all spells and there's no FAQ to the contrary.

At any rate the big deal is the spells themselves to select.

I can help with that. NO! You'd be trading spells at every level (the only thing you really get) for an arcana and a choice between 2 first level powers. Don't do it.

Well it's why it's not in my current rendition of the character, the loss of a spell known is big, not as big for a MT as for others, but still big. Some of the arcana's have pretty sweet synergy though.

For feats, I would avoid over loading on metamagic, you're going to be worse at using them than a normal caster because your spell progression has been set back. (Both by using sorcerer and by the dip necessary to go mystic theurge.) I'd probably go generic good stuff feats if you don't really have a plan for them. (Improved Initiative, augment summoning, etc.)

Interestingly enough I'll only be one to two levels behind a full sorcerer. Because I'm using just one lvl for oracle, and then the rest is sorc/MT. I may go two when MT is at lvl 10, so that I have lvl 6 oracle spells and lvl 7 sorc, but I don't know, I'll decide when I get there.

The feat selection stuff is going to be the interesting part, I'm debating goign a save and suck route or just going with utility/buffs/ and attempts at control.

Are you going with aasimar? Or Drow? I must not have seen what race you decided on. I'm pretty sure the Oracle curse will apply Silent Spell to ALL your spells, not just your Oracle ones. I'm guessing you'll be taking a bonded item with your Arcane heritage? I think the only metamagic I'd want would be Quicken. Obviously you'll want Magical Knack for one of your classes, and I always recommend seeing if your GM will let you use the rules from Inner Sea Magic to let you join a spellcasting college. For a fee (300gp four times a year I think) and having to pass some skill checks, you'll advance your caster level by +1 in one class and by +3 in another. This INCLUDES spell access. It's pretty freaking awesome, but your GM might not want to use that source.

Aasimar, Agathion. Probably bonded item.

This will be a PFS legal character so it's going to be not as wide in the selection of character options.

Why do you think that the deaf curse doesn't apply to all spell casting if you don't mind me asking.

It explicitly says all spells and there's no FAQ to the contrary.

At any rate the big deal is the spells themselves to select.

When a class ability grants you something, it applies specifically to that class. I can't give you a RAW statement that proves I'm correct though.

Well it's why it's not in my current rendition of the character, the loss of a spell known is big, not as big for a MT as for others, but still big. Some of the arcana's have pretty sweet synergy though.

Ok, here's the thing. If you can sit down and actually come up with a good reason to do it, then consider it. Don't just do it willy nilly. I would still however recommend against it, arcana's are good, but they aren't that good.

Interestingly enough I'll only be one to two levels behind a full sorcerer. Because I'm using just one lvl for oracle, and then the rest is sorc/MT. I may go two when MT is at lvl 10, so that I have lvl 6 oracle spells and lvl 7 sorc, but I don't know, I'll decide when I get there.

You're a level behind a sorcerer, which is a level behind a wizard to begin with. Then you're considering putting yourself a third level behind the curve. That's 15% of the maximum amount of levels you can get. At that part you're nearly as bad off as a generic wizard / cleric mystic theurge.

I would not go deaf curse. The spell failure risk on your sorcerer side will be too much. (Casting with free silence only effects your oracle side, despite not explicitly saying so.)

FAQ that says that the general rule is that class abilities that modify casting modify all casting.

ShadowcatX wrote:

I would not go deaf curse. The spell failure risk on your sorcerer side will be too much. (Casting with free silence only effects your oracle side, despite not explicitly saying so.)

FAQ that says that the general rule is that class abilities that modify casting modify all casting.

Good to know. Thank you.