The Library (Inactive)

Game Master nate lange

Welcome. Please begin to introduce yourselves to one another (ooc). If you have any questions about your mechanics, feel free to ask- I'll begin auditing everyone's mechanics tonight probably.

The gameplay thread is open, but only for dotting (posting and then deleting your post right away so the game shows up in your campaign tab). Please do not make any real posts in the gameplay thread until I say so.

Hi all. I'm Joe. A fairly run of the mill nerd living in the north east U.S. I'm 38 and married with 3 kids. I post daily and keep my game load light so that I can devote the proper attention to each of them. (currently 2) I check my play by posts about 3 times a day and have enough down time at work to post easy posts from there and more complex ones when I get home.
I enjoy the healer/buffer role, but if you have suggestions for me I'm all ears. Hope we have a great game!

Hey all, delighted to be in the game with you, thanks for the selection Nate :)

I'm currently working from home as a commission and webcomic artist so I tend to be tethered to my computer and post during breaks - don't really want to connect my net presences so I'll leave it at that :)

I live in England, but tend to keep a pretty Vampiric schedule, so my timings generally line up pretty well with eastern standard time, despite me being on GMT.

I generally like to start off with a few personality bullet points and flesh everything else out in play. The one commonality my characters have is that I like to use them to drive things forward, so I will often post something to the effect of, ""lets do this, as long as there are not any objections?" If nobody objects my character heads for the western passage..."

I should also add that I have never played a Magus before, though I feel I have a good understanding of all the mechanics. Very much looking forward to seeing an Occultist in play, colour me intrigued :)

Hi folks, my name's Ger (or Jer) and I'm an English teacher from Southern Spain (lotsa Brits 'ere WK!). I have no problems posting twice or thrice a day, though I'm usually slower in the weekends since my gf comes to visit.

Yeah, you might be wondering... English teacher, he should write better, right? Well, I never said I was a good one :P I try to improve my English as much as possible, so after growing bored of watching English TV shows (and waiting for the next season of Sherlock) I decided to jump into the forums and practice the language "raw and uncut".

I guess Igmutanka (you can shorten it however you feel like) will introduce himself in the Gameplay tab, and you can always have a look at the profile :) I have to say Nate selected a nice motley of PCs - you all had very original ideas - I mean, a chess piece? That's terrific!

Hi there - I'm an American on EST, can check the forums from work and do short posts on my breaks, but more meaty posts have to wait 'til the evening. I'm currently involved in several PbP games; this will be my fourth as a player and I run one other. Only one of these has a daily posting rate, so for the rest I generally try to post every other day if progression of action allows; I shouldn't have too many problems juggling them (ba-dum ching!)

I'm looking forward to what promises to be a slightly stranger game than a standard fantasy set-up. Like Igmutanka, I'm also a big fan of the living chess piece concept - good stuff! The basic concept for Lorenzo has been in the back of my mind for years, and I figured this might be a good way to take him out for a spin and breathe some life into him.

Thanks :) Yeah I felt it was a nice clear concept, I've just started playing Iron Gods so I had androids on the brain - though my PC in that is a human.

Hello everyone! I'm so glad to have been chosen along with you all. I'm excited to play the Occultist myself since I got the book. I think there was so much fluff mixed in with the mechanical explanation of the class that a lot of people found it overwhelming and overlooked it. Once you strip it of fluff it's not so hard to understand the mechanics. That might be true for a lot of the Occult Adventures book actually now that I think about it.

Right now for work I'm really unpredictable since one of the girls has gone on leave. All the part timers are being handed off the hours so they can avoid a new full time hire. That does impact my post rate and post times but I'll have no problem getting in here one to three or maybe four times a day depending on what hours I'm thrown.

I'll be taking a look at all your profiles tonight for some bedtime reading. Sounds like a wonderful mash up of concepts just based on the bits I already know!

Thanks everyone for checking in- looks like it should be a great group. I haven't had a chance to audit crunch yet, partly because a second GM is going to run another table in the same setting (which will likely have some occasional contact with this party) and I'm trying to help get them up and running.

The GM from one of the games I play in uses a couple variant rules to streamline combat and I was thinking about stealing them. I'd like feedback from the group about them first though.
1) block initiative: I'll roll initiative for everyone at the beginning of combat and then divide people into blocks based on the result; when it's your block's turn everyone in your block can post when they have time and you all act in the order you post (so the player with 15 initiative isn't waiting for the one with a 17 to make sure it doesn't ruin their action).
2) static saves: instead of rolling a save against a spell with a set DC casters roll an 'attack' against your save; this saves posts because the aggressor can post his roll with the spell instead of needing another post just to roll the save. Practically, this would mean adding your save bonus to 10 to determine your Fort defense, Ref defense, etc; and totaling the things you would normally add to 10 to calculate a spell's DC and instead making that your spell attack bonus (so a 2nd level spell with 18 in your caster stat and spell focus in its school would be a total +7 bonus)

Let me know what you think.

I am for block initiative, but uncertain about the saves, there are a lot of effects that can boost saves on a temporary basis, grant rerolls, etc. Nanite surge can give WKII a +10 bonus on a d20 roll, but must be declared before the roll is made, so if I know I have failed in advance. Not sure this necessarily is a problem, but we would need to work out how such abilities would be treated.

That's a great point, Wk2. If we use save defense scores you wouldn't be able to use nanite surge or other abilities that modify a d20 roll (since it wouldn't be a d20 roll anymore); the trade off is that you could instead use those abilities to augment your spell attacks (so instead of being at like +7 or whatever to overcome reflex defense with a fireball you could surge it up to like +17). Abilities that specifically affect a saving throw (like a swashbuckler's charmed life) could be used retroactively (even though that makes it a slightly more powerful ability).

Things that temporarily increase your save would temporarily increase your save defense instead. Things that grant rerolls, depending on how they're worded, would either let you force an enemy to reroll it's magic attack or allow you to reroll magic attacks instead of saves.

Its no really a trade off since I could do that normally, its just a straight reduction of choices, and an elimination of the generally superior option. It is pretty much always going to be preferable to use on saves in my eyes.

I don't feel that saving throws slow PBP since the GM can generally just post an effect contingent upon the saves result in a spoiler, and players can do likewise. It would also mean you would need to give the players the enemies saves which with the best will in the world would cause metagaming. Plus the GM would need to track multiple effects, that modify saves in certain circumstances, if a character has Protection from Evil, or a bonus against fear, etc., and by this level that can be a significant undertaking.

I see the solution as more of a problem than the problem in this case.

About Saves, well... "reactive" things have always striken me as weird, to say the least, in PbP. Especially all those Immediate Actions which need to be used "after the attacker rolls his die but before knowing the result" (while usually the GM will roll AND tell the result in the same post). So regarding this, there will always be an issue, I guess - it's up to you which system do you want to use to feel more comfortable. I can adapt.

For Initiative, anything that prevents the bottle neck of someone not posting when his turn comes and keeping the rest waiting is fine. What you propose is good. In a Legacy of Fire game I'm currently playing, the GM uses a system with which I feel very comfortable. It requires a bit of flexibility and work from the GM, but I'm telling just in case you like it:

-The GM posts when a new turn begins (e.g. "Round Two, Fight!") along with an initiative chart.

-All players post their actions, no matter the posting order. Players will have to take into account in which Initiative Slot they act, and possibly provide guidelines in case actions turn out impossible when their IS commences (e.g. "I will use my tomahawks as full attack. Will take the Goblin Taskmaster as primary target, and will try to use a five-foot step to flank him").

-When all players have posted, the GM posts all the actions' results in a single post, and bots the players which couldn't do any of their actions due to circumstances, always reasonably (e.g. "Igmutanka realises that, once the Goblin Taskmaster is slain, the rest of the goblins are too far away for a full attack. He tries an Acrobatics check to flank one of them 20 feet away". Then "Round Three, Fight!" :P

And so on. Botting the player intelligently is the most difficult and demanding, but you can always just state that the player has an action to be solved in a previous round, or something. This system prevents the "first posted, first done" issue if two or more players compete for a spot with good cover or which provides flanking.

Just my two copper pieces. Wait, Igmutanka is not supposed to use coins...

@WK2- normally nanite surge could be used to penetrate spell resistance but not to increase the spell's DC (which is functionally what you're doing when you increase the spell attack bonus). This approach would favor aggression though (since it gives a few more opportunities to increase the chance of a spell succeeding and a couple less tricks for improving saves). But, like I said, I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts before we decide on anything.

@Igmutanka- that's what I do in my other two games but sometimes people still wait to see how things look when their specific spot rolls around.

But as a Magus I simply will not be using spells with DCs, Magus's attack spells are almost invariably touch spells, so that would be no help whatsoever.

At a pinch we could come up with a basic circumstances guide for its usage on saves, but the more I think about it the more problematic it seems. If a player has effects from race, traits, class abilities, magic items and spells all of which can potentially effect their saves under various circumstances expecting the GM to trawl through all of that seems problematic.

The only circumstances where it would actually save in game time appear to be those where the rest of the casters action would be contingent upon the result, and this is rare enough that posting spoilered options for each circumstance could be a viable alternative.

It would be easier for me, just because I don't have to wait for you to roll saves and potentially need to split one initiative block into multiple posts to get them (I'd rather have to look up some bonuses than wait hours or days for a roll). Contingent spoilers can be useful for some small things (like whether/where someone moves) but they break down when you have whole creatures worth of actions that dependent on how other creatures' rounds go. That said, after looking over our casters' spell selections it does seem like you guys aren't really built for a mechanic that favors the agressor at all...

I'm still going to wait to hear from everyone else before I make a decision, but I'll also think about other ways I might be able to streamline that...

I love the initiative modification. Leery of the save modification. I will adapt to whatever you decide.

I'm a fan of both, though I may be a bit biased.

As for the alternate saving throw system, the ability to boost/reroll saves as an immediate action before the result is determined hasn't come up before in use; it's a difficult mechanic to account for and keep player choice involved. I have a few ideas, but they're all based on keeping the spirit of the ability but not the actual effect.

I will note that it doesn't require that you give the players an enemy's saves any more than an attack roll requires you to give an enemy's AC. Though maybe some DMs do this in PbP? (This would be music to my ears, actually; I've found that one of the most annoying things throughout my many years of DnD/Pathfinder has been the exhausting "meta-game" of keeping track of die rolls to figure out each enemy's AC in every combat encounter ever fought.)

In the end I'm fine with either system for both mechanics, though I'd greatly prefer the block initiative if possible; unless we get down to some serious PvP action, I think it just makes everyone's life easier. Especially as we get higher in level and keep building a greater variety of action options for our characters, contingency posts about actions due to initiative order will become much more difficult - I feel that this is the main cause of getting stuck waiting around for a slow poster with high initiative.

The saves thing sound confusing. I can't really weigh in because I don't really get it. If the problem is waiting for player saves can't the DM roll the save? I've seen that here before and no one seems o mind it.

If the problem is waiting for player saves can't the DM roll the save? I've seen that here before and no one seems o mind it.

An excellent point. Nate, if you'd rather have to look up some bonuses than wait hours or days for a roll, then just rolling a character's save for them would require exactly the same amount of effort. As long as you don't list the DC the save is rolled against, the player can then choose to activate any save-related abilities with minimum metagaming in their next post. True, they'll know that they already failed the save, but that's something I for one am okay with.

Me rolling doesn't solve the problem of needing to ret-con things if someone wants to use an ability to raise their save, but it would generally speed things up... Would people prefer that system? We use the regular saving throw rules and I just roll most of your saves for you?

Also, I suppose I should introduce myself as well. My name is Nate. I'm in my late 30s with a wife and 2 kids. I started playing in BASIC D&D and played every edition until 3.5; I switched to Pathfinder while it was in Beta and never looked back. I've also played some gurps, a couple different paladium games, some storyteller stuff, etc. I'm currently GMing 3 PbP games and playing in a few others. I frequently have a few minutes at a time of downtime at work so I check the boards pretty often from my phone (I do a lot of my shorter posts from it).

I'll offer some more specific feedback on crunch tomorrow but a few general things to get started:

For the class line stuff do you prefer a simpler format like Ariok's or the more in depth like Igmutanka's - I would normally default for the later, but you mentioend Ariok's.

I am happy to have the GM rolls saves. But I would like the option to add Nanite surge, since it is a once a day ability, probably with a set of guidelines as to when I would use it on a save. Basically for situations where WK had a significant reason to believe he was in danger of being killed or disabled, with a higher likelihood of using it if the effect comes from a powerful foe - might require rolling spellcraft. That way the majority of saves could be rolled, in very clear cut situations Nate could add Nanite Surge and in the few not covered instances either go conditional or ask - as I said usually chained to my computer arting anyway, so a quick response is fairly likely.

I think Igmutanka added his after my post; his is better. I don't mind some variation (his is acceptable) but ideally I'd like:

HP: current/max | AC (touch, flat-footed) | CMD | Fort, Ref, Will | Speed | Sense Motive; Perception (senses*) | Initiative | Daily Resouces** (optional) | Active Effects:

*senses would include things like low-light vision, darkvision, scent, etc.
**this would include things like arcane pool, rounds of performance, channels, etc.

Race/class/alignment don't need to be included.

Done and done :) Would you like me to include Pawn's info to? Generally WKs AC will be higher for Mage Armor, but he will not start with it cast.

Hi GM Panic here, from table 2, hi all, just saying have fun.

@WK2- familiars that avoid combat I'm fine with kind of hand waving away... If you plan on pawn participating in combat at all (which it looks like you do), or scouting places combat could be, I would love for you to make a separate profile for him/it with all the same info in the tag. this will also make for better RP moments between you too, though it might take slightly more work for you to break up the post into two separate posters.

"Reportin' for duty Sir!" The mephit snaps, standing to attention, but in seconds he slumps, white paunch expanding outward as he begins to scratch himself.

Recycled an unused profile, so please ignore the elf in spoilers below :) And yes I plan to use him in combat, but hopefully in a fairly careful way. Generally speaking he will be false lifed to up his survivability a bit.

WK2- your crunch looks good

Igmutanka- please show the breakdown for your AC (your number is correct but I'd like to be able to see where it's coming from). Also, please double check your skills: I'd like you to identify/separate out your background skills, and to mark which one skill you are getting from your headband (which it looks like you forgot about). Finally, please choose your last potion.

Jacomo (whose name has changed)- yours looks good too

WK2- apologies, there is one thing: can you please show the break down for your skill bonuses (like Igmutanka and Jacomo have)

Ariok- I know you mentioned having a busy weekend but when you get a chance there's a handful of things I need for your crunch:

• spells- please pick which ones you have memorized to start out
  
• skills- please format these the way Igmutanka and Jacomo have. Also, it doesn't look like you took your background skills? Please do so (know history&nobility are both available as background skills).
  
• combat- your HPs look off (I think you should have 65), also please include them in your spoiler (with the breakdown of where they're coming from). Please format your AC the way the others have. Please specify what "AB" is. It looks like you're not really planning to use that scimitar much but please include an attack entry that shows typical bonus to hit and the damage roll.
  
• cleric abilities- please add both luck domain abilities (or a link to the luck domain), and the 1st level healing ability (or a link to the healing domain) and a note that you count as 2 levels lower for that domain.
  

Yes, I did the profile tags after you said it - I had left them deliberately blank in case I wasn't picked (lazy arse, I know). All my Characters have mostly the same pattern.

All changes required are already made. You were right, I forgot to add an extra skill due to the Intellect Headband.

Sure, I've put it at a spoiler in the bottom on my alias as I'd rather look it up without that info.

Please not I have also added in background skills which I did not have, and that after listing the skills for Pawn his fly was to high, Herolab seemed to be adding his and his masters skill ranks where he should only get the highest so his fly is +14 not +17.

OH RIGHT! My feat! I was going to ask if taking something like Craft Wondrous Item would be practical for the campaign. It seems thematic with the Occultist but I know lots of campaigns don't really have time for crafting like that. Brewing potions only take a max of two days so I was less concerned about making time for that.

Rin is sitting at 29 lbs currently carried once you add up all the little bits. She's definitely encumbered. If she drops her backpack she's at 21 lbs which is just under her light load. If you want to hand wave that in favor of what you suggested you'll have no complaints from me!

I've got real skill points in a background skill right now, specifically Sleight of Hand. Did you want me to mark it as a background skill as well or just mark the skills where the extra background skill points went?

Also with the way Focus Powers work for Occultist it makes it so that certain bonuses fluctuate depending on how much Mental Focus I put in each day to the various Implements. Rather than trying to update my crunch that frequently, which I'm sure I'd mess up royally doing so, I'll keep the bonuses reflected in the profile tag. For example Rin's Third Eye ability grants her a +3 insight bonus to Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks, a +1 to all Knowledge skill checks, and darkvision. I've updated the profile tags to reflect those changes but her crunch is just her basic stats.

Crunch finished! Let me know how it looks.

Will normal healing affect WKII and Pawn?

@Rin- how much downtime you guys have will largely be up to all of you. i'm going to try to keep things pretty sand-boxy. there will definitely be times where you guys get yourselves into positions where downtime may be hard to come by but most of the time it should be doable if the party is amenable. For your skills, when you break them down please separate "ranks" and "b.ranks" (which will be background skill ranks you've invested in addition to the 'real' ranks).

@Ariok- yes.

Done and done for the skills.

As for the feat yeah if the party thinks it'll be a good idea I'll go for Craft Wondrous Item feat. If not there's a million more.

Oh, I just separated the skills, but since I used a pair of normal skill points to buy some background skills, do you want me also to use that format? I tried to use one which would leave everything quite clear imho.

As long as it's clear I don't mind slightly different formats

Alright...

The response was tepid but it sounds like people are ok with me rolling most of your saves? Those of you who have abilities to get rerolls or to boost your result can do so in a separate post and we'll ret-con as necessary, but please do so as quickly as possible. If you have an ability to boost your result or reroll and failing a save is going to have dire consequences I'll use your ability automatically unless you've asked me not to.

It looks like we're almost ready to get started. Rin still has a feat to pick, and Ariok has one more 3rd level spell it looks like. Please try to take care of those things as quickly as possible, and if you have any last questions before we start ask them now. I'm hoping/planning to officially start gameplay tomorrow!

If I'm interested in possibly taking the Sound Striker bard archetype as well, is that something I need to declare now? It meshes with Juggler, and doesn't replace any abilities until Bard 3; I'm not sure I'm too keen on inspire competence or suggestion, and am warming to the idea of literally hurling invective at enemies.

Yep I'm perfectly fine with you rolling saves - and that sounds great for special abilities, I doubt it will come up much, but its good to have outlined in advance.

Fine with you rolling my saves. Spells done.

Jacomo- by the rules you don't technically take an archetype until it changes something, so you have until you actually take your 3rd bard level to decide.

Filled in the last feat with Craft Wondrous Item and I'm good with you rolling saves!

can't wait to see how this table starts. HEHE

No teasing!

I will be posting our starting post soon. In your first post please include a physical description of yourself and feel free roleplay reacting to your new surroundings, the other people, and/or the fact that you've lost your memory (remember: you know your name and what you're capable of). There will be a couple of obvious things to interact with- please wait until everyone has 'woken up' before you dive right into playing with things.

But do you know what I'm capable of........

In case it wasn't clear, please begin posting in gameplay. See my previous post for details.

Yes. Will be a bit slow till tomorrow, sorry.

Nate - Please take a look at the Perform skills when you get a chance. I took both Act and Comedy to cover physical comedy/clown stuff - pratfalls, exaggerated facial expressions, general "slapstick". I have no interest in verbal/witty comedy, i.e. jokes. Do I actually need Perform: Comedy for this, or can physical comedy be covered by Perform: Act and Acrobatics? I'd love to have an extra skill point per level to reallocate, even if it's just to a different Perform skill, like Dance.