The Avalon Chronicles

Game Master lynora

Either wolves or elementals, it doesn't matter, it's pure bs and nothing I'd ever allow, at any level.

Yep. Yet, people say warlock is underpowered.

Here it is-
4th Summon Monster (Su): You can summon monsters to aid you as per the summon monster II spell. The duration lasts a day. Creatures summoned always have maximum hit points.

Warlocks, if done right, are stupidly powerful.

3 resist energy per level at 8th level that even usurps things like scorching spell? Count me in.

Fly at will at 10th. No other comment about that one.

And at 16th lv, the ultimate escape plan, at will teleport to the astral plane!

Ice. Stop and think. If I wanted to put 600 wolves in your campaign, would you let me?

Nope. Cause I'd ban or nerf that aspect of warlock.

But it shouldn't be nerfed because it's underpowered!

Not my fault you haven't been using it right.

One broken thing doesn't make a class strong: it makes it incredibly boring, and prone to being banned or altered.

he did list other powerful things.

One broken thing doesn't make a class strong: it makes it incredibly boring, and prone to being banned or altered.

Yep.

Warlock has tons of ways to break it horribly.

But if you don't, it sucks.

For example, one school ablity allows you to soak 3 energy damage per level per day. But your a warlock, so you can do it at will.

You now have, at lv 15, 45 energy resist (all), but with no way around it. And if you have real energy resistance, that apples too.

3.5 Warlock absolutely was underpowered. Most of these theoreticals can't actually be done in an actual game. I sure as hell tried. :P
Makes a great support character in a similar vein to the bard, but that's about it.
Newer versions converted for use in Pathfinder are better and can hold their own. But even so....that summon monster two even if you have an army of whatevers...all I have to say is Area Effect. Similar tactics to fighting swarms. :)

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

Yeah, but what AOE encompasses 600 spaces?

Also, near energy immunity, at will fly, and my favorite, at will permanent dominate 1 person at a time.

3.5 Warlock absolutely was underpowered. Most of these theoreticals can't actually be done in an actual game. I sure as hell tried. :P

Makes a great support character in a similar vein to the bard, but that's about it.
Newer versions converted for use in Pathfinder are better and can hold their own. But even so....that summon monster two even if you have an army of whatevers...all I have to say is Area Effect. Similar tactics to fighting swarms. :)

how would you deal with a swarm that regenerates, and has energy resistance

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

....

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

I like them, there was this one prestige class that was essentially mistic thurge, except for them

lynora wrote:

3.5 Warlock absolutely was underpowered. Most of these theoreticals can't actually be done in an actual game. I sure as hell tried. :P

Makes a great support character in a similar vein to the bard, but that's about it.
Newer versions converted for use in Pathfinder are better and can hold their own. But even so....that summon monster two even if you have an army of whatevers...all I have to say is Area Effect. Similar tactics to fighting swarms. :)

how would you deal with a swarm that regenerates, and has energy resistance

Dimension door....nothing says I have to stand there like a chump. :P

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Yes, but here's the thing- the breaks here are obvious. So very obvious.

But the worst part is, if you don't break it, the character sucks. What kinda idiot made this class?

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

I like them, there was this one prestige class that was essentially mistic thurge, except for them

Oh man, that class sucked so bad. It sounded so cool and played so very, very poorly. >.<

lynora wrote:

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Yes, but here's the thing- the breaks here are obvious. So very obvious.

But the worst part is, if you don't break it, the character sucks. What kinda idiot made to class?

how is long range at will energy damage suck?

Who has to have a broken character to have fun?

icehawk333 wrote:

lynora wrote:

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Yes, but here's the thing- the breaks here are obvious. So very obvious.

But the worst part is, if you don't break it, the character sucks. What kinda idiot made to class?

how is long range at will energy damage suck?

lvl 1 warlock and lvl 1 fighter vs troll
warlock does better

Ok. Troll.

Anything else-

2d6+ str*1.5

No feats. Nothing. Just a greatsword.

Lord Foul II wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

I like them, there was this one prestige class that was essentially mistic thurge, except for them

Oh man, that class sucked so bad. It sounded so cool and played so very, very poorly. >.<

didn't matter for me,

Who has to have a broken character to have fun?

No one. You need a Charecter that is, you know, relevant.

The problem is with warlock-
If it isn't broken, it's pathetic.
If it's broken, it's insane.

lynora wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

I like them, there was this one prestige class that was essentially mistic thurge, except for them

Oh man, that class sucked so bad. It sounded so cool and played so very, very poorly. >.<

didn't matter for me,

my characters don't have to be powerful, but I want them all to have a gimmick,

And yet, your the guy who must always play a caster.

lynora wrote:

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Yes, but here's the thing- the breaks here are obvious. So very obvious.

But the worst part is, if you don't break it, the character sucks. What kinda idiot made this class?

But it's not broken. That's the point. And no, if you don't do the 'broken' thing the class doesn't auto suck. Anything can be awesome as long as you can turn the system on its ear and not get caught up in the assumption of what is and isn't good. And anything can suck if you get stuck in an idea of what is and isn't good and can't adapt when you run into a string of things that exploits a weakness your character has. There is a huge difference between how something looks on paper and how it actually plays too. Theoreticals don't really tell you anything. It's just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Lord Foul II wrote:

icehawk333 wrote:

lynora wrote:

Also, you can break commoner horribly if you have the right mindset. Been there, done that. Was the only way to prove to the GM that the problem wasn't the system. The problem wasn't even optimizing. The problem was that he was running a table of 'macguyvers' who could make combat monsters out of anything. ;P

And then I went back to playing what I wanted cause honestly proving that I could meet his challenge against optimization wasn't that entertaining.

Yes, but here's the thing- the breaks here are obvious. So very obvious.

But the worst part is, if you don't break it, the character sucks. What kinda idiot made to class?

how is long range at will energy damage suck?

lvl 1 warlock and lvl 1 fighter vs troll
warlock does better

Ok. Troll.

Anything else-

2d6+ str*1.5

No feats. Nothing. Just a greatsword.

range is still an incredibly useful thing

Sorry lyn.
I can't talk without causing problems.
This always happens when i start talking here, i can't help but be an argumentative little ****.

I'm surprised every day you keep me here, with my whining about my life and my
"winning is, by definition, is everything" attitude.

range is still an incredibly useful thing
I believe the range on that thing is 100ft+10 per level yes?
so attack (d6), move you are now 140 ft away
fighter double moves to you are now 80 ft away
attack (d6) move away 120ft
double move 60 ft
attack move 90
x2move 30
attack move 60
charge

Bow. 1d8 + str. 120 ft range. 240 with a -1.

Carl is a warlock, hes not broken but he is very very powerful.
hes meant to be as thats part of his problem, he has little control over his powers.

Ice PM

Lord Foul II wrote:

lynora wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Remember that it's 3.5 warlock, not the one that get school abilities, that people think I'd weak.

I like them, there was this one prestige class that was essentially mistic thurge, except for them

Oh man, that class sucked so bad. It sounded so cool and played so very, very poorly. >.<

didn't matter for me,

my characters don't have to be powerful, but I want them all to have a gimmick,

And yet, your the guy who must always play a caster.

over 2/3 of all the classes have some casting

currently I am in a level 1 soulknife (I do have detect magic from a trait but that really shouldn't count as playing a caster)
earlier I was in a campign where I played a blacksmith(NPC class)/barbarian half giant
so two characters, no casting at all
technically 3 if you count arthur (I don't, not really)

lets see. of all of the characters I have ever played (other than 2e wizards when I first got started, and they were always other things too) I have only repeated 2 classes
I have played 5 sorscers (one of them only has a 1 lvl dip in it. 2 of them were just porting a character from one campaign to another)
and 2 oracles

Also... I was going to have Rena answer... but honestly I can't decide if what she would say would break the PG-13 board rules... heh. I'll just wait.

DB3: if you feel you can't do your villain justice, then you can narrate us back to the school. Honestly, I'm more interested in how Pyry ties into this than anything >_>

lol. Yeah, Asha of course has no idea that she said anything remotely naughty as she doesn't understand the slang. :D

over 2/3 of all the classes have some casting

currently I am in a level 1 soulknife (I do have detect magic from a trait but that really shouldn't count as playing a caster)
earlier I was in a campign where I played a blacksmith(NPC class)/barbarian half giant
so two characters, no casting at all
technically 3 if you count arthur (I don't, not really)

lets see. of all of the characters I have ever played (other than 2e wizards when I first got started, and they were always other things too) I have only repeated 2 classes
I have played 5 sorscers (one of them only has a 1 lvl dip in it. 2 of them were just porting a character from one campaign to another)
and 2 oracles

As I've said, psionics count.

Lord Foul II wrote:

over 2/3 of all the classes have some casting

currently I am in a level 1 soulknife (I do have detect magic from a trait but that really shouldn't count as playing a caster)
earlier I was in a campign where I played a blacksmith(NPC class)/barbarian half giant
so two characters, no casting at all
technically 3 if you count arthur (I don't, not really)

lets see. of all of the characters I have ever played (other than 2e wizards when I first got started, and they were always other things too) I have only repeated 2 classes
I have played 5 sorscers (one of them only has a 1 lvl dip in it. 2 of them were just porting a character from one campaign to another)
and 2 oracles

As I've said, psionics count.

doesn't manifest any powers either

In movement terms, about how fast is 122 mph?

Tybalt Baneko wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

over 2/3 of all the classes have some casting

currently I am in a level 1 soulknife (I do have detect magic from a trait but that really shouldn't count as playing a caster)
earlier I was in a campign where I played a blacksmith(NPC class)/barbarian half giant
so two characters, no casting at all
technically 3 if you count arthur (I don't, not really)

lets see. of all of the characters I have ever played (other than 2e wizards when I first got started, and they were always other things too) I have only repeated 2 classes
I have played 5 sorscers (one of them only has a 1 lvl dip in it. 2 of them were just porting a character from one campaign to another)
and 2 oracles

As I've said, psionics count.

doesn't manifest any powers either

I'm talking about full on ex abilities. Nothing anti magic could stop.

Sorry lyn.

I can't talk without causing problems.
This always happens when i start talking here, i can't help but be an argumentative little ****.

I'm surprised every day you keep me here, with my whining about my life and my
"winning is, by definition, is everything" attitude.

You're fine. We were just having a discussion. No big. I provided a dissenting opinion. You're in no danger of being kicked out over a friendly conversation. We just have different perspectives. :)

I learned to play by being thrown in to a 2e game with a bunch of engineers....well, I learned a lot. First, THACO is evil. Second, for some reason the party always goes chaotic evil....my character's job was keeping the paladin distracted during the more blatant evil acts. Third, nothing has just one solution and the best solution is always the one that makes your GM look like his head is going to explode. ;P

And that's why I quit dming.

It will never be worth it.

Also, yes there is one solution to everything. It's pun-pun. :p

But even /I'm/ not that twisted.

Not this again, Foul you failed Tybalt test can we let it go :)

Also, yes there is one solution to everything. It's pun-pun. :p But even /I'm/ not that twisted.

pun-pun read about that, scary

Lord Foul II wrote:

Tybalt Baneko wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

over 2/3 of all the classes have some casting

currently I am in a level 1 soulknife (I do have detect magic from a trait but that really shouldn't count as playing a caster)
earlier I was in a campign where I played a blacksmith(NPC class)/barbarian half giant
so two characters, no casting at all
technically 3 if you count arthur (I don't, not really)

lets see. of all of the characters I have ever played (other than 2e wizards when I first got started, and they were always other things too) I have only repeated 2 classes
I have played 5 sorscers (one of them only has a 1 lvl dip in it. 2 of them were just porting a character from one campaign to another)
and 2 oracles

As I've said, psionics count.

doesn't manifest any powers either

I'm talking about full on ex abilities. Nothing anti magic could stop.

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

Ice, you just need to make sure you remember that power isn't what makes this game fun.
We focus more on role play and how our powers can enhance that and make it more fun.
You could work out an end all be all character, but if isn't good role play, it misses the point of the game. :)

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

i really don't like caviler or samurai, you can't use ki in anti magic, nor several rage powers

Ice, you just need to make sure you remember that power isn't what makes this game fun.

We focus more on role play and how our powers can enhance that and make it more fun.
You could work out an end all be all character, but if isn't good role play, it misses the point of the game. :)

You know, you really don't understand how many ways your statement has made me feel sick.

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

Butcher, beastmaster, Corbie,

icehawk333 wrote:

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

i really don't like caviler or samurai, you can't use ki in anti magic, nor several rage powers

So rouge or fighter
Sure, I'll play one of those eventually but pathfinder has so many other options and I did mention likeing having a gimmick

I chose not to include "ki" as "magic" because it's power of the body, and somewhat different. (Also, it doesn't have that "spell" feel.)

Tybalt Baneko wrote:

Ice, you just need to make sure you remember that power isn't what makes this game fun.

We focus more on role play and how our powers can enhance that and make it more fun.
You could work out an end all be all character, but if isn't good role play, it misses the point of the game. :)

You know, you really don't understand how many ways your statement has made me feel sick.

Why? :(

icehawk333 wrote:

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

Butcher, beastmaster, Corbie,

those are third party classes that I haven't looked much into, though butcher did look somewhat interesting

Lord Foul II wrote:

icehawk333 wrote:

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

i really don't like caviler or samurai, you can't use ki in anti magic, nor several rage powers

So rouge or fighter
Sure, I'll play one of those eventually but pathfinder has so many other options and I did mention likeing having a gimmick

I chose not to include "ki" as "magic" because it's power of the body, and somewhat different. (Also, it doesn't have that "spell" feel.)

if you read on the 2e flavor text so is psionics

Why? :(

A lot of reasons.

As far as I'm concerned, at least on a subconscious level, even when I'm trying to avoid thinking like this, I'm always back to "winning is, by definition, everything."

Then, you point out that power isn't what makes the game fun. Since i have the problem of a twisted Philosophy, i often successfully find some way to get myself into a delusion allowing me to get some twisted amount of enjoyment out of what is a petty and terrible mindset.

So, you take what is a nearly unachievable goal of how to act, at least for me, and point out that it is the norm, right after pointing out that the other way is boring and dull, and making me realize it.

And to top it all off, it was unintentional, so i can't even be mad at you for it.

icehawk333 wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

icehawk333 wrote:

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

i really don't like caviler or samurai, you can't use ki in anti magic, nor several rage powers

So rouge or fighter
Sure, I'll play one of those eventually but pathfinder has so many other options and I did mention likeing having a gimmick

I chose not to include "ki" as "magic" because it's power of the body, and somewhat different. (Also, it doesn't have that "spell" feel.)

if you read on the 2e flavor text so is psionics

Not using 2e, are we? It's power of the mind.

Tybalt Baneko wrote:

icehawk333 wrote:

Hall Stewart wrote:

technically, that wouldn't work either, not with my will saves (note+10 at lvl 1)

Rouge (no taking minor or major magic rouge talents), fighter, claiver, samurai, barbarian, or ninja.

Butcher, beastmaster, Corbie,

those are third party classes that I haven't looked much into, though butcher did look somewhat interesting

But even with those that's like 5 classes out of several dozen
I promise that the next mid-low level campign I join I will play as a swashbuckler

Look. I'm not going to try and make you change.