Mended Wall's PBP for beginners (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

Yay! Tension and plot advancement!

And let's not forget ol' Edgrin! He's got a stake in saving his wizard buddy, too! Bards aren't my style, really, but they're awesome!

I have a suspicion we have run into one of these situations. In that we are trying to go in a direction the adventure path does not contemplate. And it is approaching time we should should not make "choo choo" noises as the GM rails us into the plot.

Yeah, with my 26 bluff check to con him and Kairon's 25 intimidate check, and the GM not bothering to roll an opposed check for either, I'm thinking the he's decided that there's no way to get Kerrdremak to do what we want :(

Guess it's time to shovel some coal and get this train moving.

Edit: question is, do we trust Kerrdremak enough to leave him and his buddies here?

I went ahead and arranged people where I think they'd be standing while this conversation took place, since nobody had bothered to move, and it's possible that it's about to matter. If you disagree about your placement, you should move yourself.

YOWZERS!!! From a basically 'dead' weekend in game, I come home from work to find 11 new game posts + 5 discussion posts! YAY! :D

Edit: question is, do we trust Kerrdremak enough to leave him and his buddies here?

"trust Kerrdremak"?!?!?! H E L L NO!!!!! Pardon my language! I don't even like the idea of his group keeping an eye on any of the kids! And as a matter fact, when this all started turning a bit hostile, Mended did say he sticks both his arms in his sleeves, and I've only noticed him take one hand back out! I'm paying attention to that hand Mended! I'm about to post that I am holding a readied action to cast burning hands if that hand comes out of that sleeve holding anything in it unless he tells us so first! So the intent is if he has something in that hand and starts to to withdraww it from that sleeve, hopefully before it has a chance to clear the sleeve I will cast my burning hands as per the cone shape I have placed on the battle-grid.

I was thinking along the same lines. You should really post your readied action in gameplay...

Edit: Nevermind, there it is.

Dolok, I put another template on the page. This one is also possible from where you are, I believe, but would cover all of the kobolds except Gurtlekrep, who may or may not take their side, and who in any case has been disarmed.

Yeah, with my 26 bluff check to con him and Kairon's 25 intimidate check, and the GM not bothering to roll an opposed check for either, I'm thinking the he's decided that there's no way to get Kerrdremak to do what we want :(

Guess it's time to shovel some coal and get this train moving.

Edit: question is, do we trust Kerrdremak enough to leave him and his buddies here?

I was going to make a flippant post here to the effect we could take this completely away from where the adventure path wants to head by offing Kerrdremak and his flunkies.

Then I read the recent posts in game. Looks like we are going to be doing just that.

I doubt the module particularly expects any of the kobolds to survive. If it did, Kerrdremak would be proposing a course of action closer to what we have been trying to get him to do.

Maybe.

Yeah, I don't really see a group of 'human/halfling heroes' making a peace treaty with kobolds ...

Hey! It could happen.

. . . maybe.

Just probably not here . . . . .

Question, Mended:

Let's suppose that we get this six-pack to collaborate with us, and Kairon casts bless with a total of twelve beneficiaries. If Kerrdremak & Co. decide to play the "vile treachery" card while the bonus is still up, what would it take to end the bonus for them?

1) dismiss?
2) Kairon's mental acknowledgement they are no longer allies?
3) other?

My immediate reaction to Kerrdremak's last persuasive little speech is lets kill the lot of the slimy f**kers right now.

And in the light of cooler reflection I still think this course has much to recommend it.

My immediate reaction to Kerrdremak's last persuasive little speech is lets kill the lot of the slimy f**kers right now.

And in the light of cooler reflection I still think this course has much to recommend it.

If I were a player in this campaign, I'd be inclined to much the same conclusion. I've never met a kobold I didn't not like. (That's a lot of negatives...) :-P

@Syrus, if you cast bless while they are considered allies, and then they go full on Benedict Arnold, you'd have to dismiss the spell to prevent them from still using the +1... At least that's how I'd rule it on first blush. ;)

Wow, you all really despise kobolds. Perhaps it's due to my inexperience with actually playing DnD.

I've been trying to play my character on the level, but I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that kobolds have never proven trustworthy in any campaign in any system I've ever played.

An entire race stuffed to bursting with "dragon envy" and "small man complex"? Yeah . . . not so great to work with.

I *will* at least admit that they usually *do* work for what they want, though, once their sense of entitlement gets them nothing. Though that work typically involves preying upon those weaker than themselves. Which is horribly consistent with our own little story . . . .

Anti-koboldist?

Yeah. And rightly so.

Kobolds are reminiscent of Hobbes description of life in the state of nature. Nasty brutish and short.

To be fair, Gurtlekrep seems OK.

Wow, you all really despise kobolds. Perhaps it's due to my inexperience with actually playing DnD.

Well, they did kidnap a bunch of kids with the intention of sacrificing them, so at the very least, it's fair to say that we got off on the wrong foot.

kobolds = black plague infestation caused by rats.

Yep that about sums up my opinion of kobolds in any game system I've encountered them in. And about that same level of ... trust?!?! Hahahaha! You can't use the positive form of the word 'trust' when talking about kobolds you silly!

Yeah I think the majority of us seem to agree on kobolds and their trustworthiness and value.

kobolds = black...

I just want to say, whatever ill feelings I might have toward this group of kobolds, it's entirely based on their actions, and definitely not because they're black :P

Dolok Pickering wrote:

kobolds = black...

I just want to say, whatever ill feelings I might have toward this group of kobolds, it's entirely based on their actions, and definitely not because they're black :P

Literally LOL. Good one. Also, yes, Goruck, I'm guessing your lack of tabletop experience is a factor in your currently neutral attitude toward kobolds. Much like everyone else here, I've never had a good experience with kobolds in any game I've been in as a player, OR as a GM... Honestly, the number of kobolds in this particular module that are written as "helpful" or "friendly" is an abomination as far as I'm concerned, but I'm willing to run them as the module suggests... Though, as many people have rightly stated, I still wouldn't trust that they're fully on the up and up, which sounds like a spoiler alert when it comes from your GM, right?!

Not only are kobolds the new black, given the long, aggressive and repetitious nature of the negotiations with them, negotiate is the new N-word.

I'm very sure that the color black, and all its aficionados (myself included), are offended by being so associated with kobolds.

. . . the question:

Mended, how do you envision the putrefaction/decay/whatever of slain summoned creatures transpiring?

I know it won't be of any impact in this particular instance (being sure that the hellhound is a native-born descendant of transplanted hellhound parents), but my mind wandered over into Dresden-land during the coup de grace. Summoned creatures, once trounced, discorporate into clear ectoplasmic goo, which then evaporates at an accelerated rate in the Butcher stories.

Ectoplasm? Instantaneous vanishment of physical vessel? Sensory effects determined by plane of origin? Physical corpse?

And:

Crud. That was "crood". I had Kairon shoulder past Goruck for the coop-de-graycie because I was running the numbers based upon the 'longspear vs nodachi' angle, rather than considering the fact that he's got that axe nice and handy . . . .

My bad, dude.

EDIT: . . . . and even then -- I can't math. That is all.

Derpdedurrr.

Mended, how do you envision the putrefaction/decay/whatever of slain summoned creatures transpiring?

A puff of dark, wet smoke, a brief glimpse into a world wholly unlike your own, accompanied by an overwhelming feeling of malevolent power glimpsing back. Then the world just as it was, with no trace that anything extra ever existed there in the first place.

EDIT: . . . . and even then -- I can't math.

Based on some of the probability you were discussing with Illiam and I some time back your maths is not as bad as you think it is.

Syrus Terrigan wrote:

EDIT: . . . . and even then -- I can't math.

Based on some of the probability you were discussing with Illiam and I some time back your maths is not as bad as you think it is.

rotflmaowidratte

That is one major mess you are making. And wrongly so. I wasn't saying you were a mathematical genius, just that your maths isn't hopeless.

I understood you properly the first time! :D

... your maths isn't hopeless.

Maths = plural

Chillel wrote:

... your maths isn't hopeless.

Maths = plural

isn't = singular
From the english word lover? Or am I the one mistaken here? Me confused now.

It's an international thing. Chillel is Australian, I believe? They follow the British convention of shortening "mathematics" to "maths", whereas here in 'Murica!, we shorten it to "math".

As to whether "maths" and "mathematics" are considered singular or plural nouns, I've seen it both ways, but "math" is always singular.

I think the difference is whether you live in 'Murica or America. People in 'Murica say math, because. People in America say maths because they are educated and realize that there are several different kinds of math, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, algebra, and so on. So, if you're educated, you say maths. :P ;)

Let's do this thing! We might as well coordinate strategy, since we probably won't hear from Mended again until Monday. Here are my ideas, if anyone has a better idea, let's discuss:

Illiam: His priority is to use his invisibility to get Jurin conscious and out of the room. I'd rather not use another spell, especially another of my second-levels, but if things go poorly, I can use Create Pit. If it's well-placed, I might be able to get the anvil to fall on him, and being anchored to the chain may also make it impossible for him to avoid falling in, because making the reflex save would require moving to a square he can't reach. Casting it on the spot where he's anchored could also force him to fall in, or at least keep him from moving past the sloped edges around the pit, where he would have to make a reflex save every round to avoid falling in (too bad it's only 10ft deep until next level).

Goruck: He should probably be the first one the FS sees. Go for the chain, Str check to break it (by my reading, having the end anchored with the stubborn nail should allow him to do this one-handed, or maybe get a bonus for using two hands?). I'm also assuming that since the chain is pinned, he can just grab it and pull as a standard action, but if Mended rules that a combat maneuver is necessary first, being large will make that easier. If it does, I'd think the one combat maneuver plus being pinned by the stubborn nail would immobilize it enough to allow others to grab it for assists (since anything between Goruck's hand and the nail will be pulled taut and thus immobile).

Dolok: Enlarge person is a good idea, just wait until Goruck enters the room so that he doesn't have to squeeze. After that you probably then want to grab the chain and roll an assist on the strength check, especially if you have any fire resistance.

Kairon: You could use Bless, but it won't help with the strength checks, so probably better to save it. Helping pull on the chain would help more, or you could keep the FS busy (though a mass of kobolds is probably sufficient for that).

Chillel: Web bolt would be helpful if it worked, but I suspect it would immediately burn away. You could use one of your cold damage spells, but if you do I would wait and ready an action to use it if the STR check fails, to avoid wasting it. If you have a hex that's not mind-affecting, that might work too. I couldn't find a list of your hexes (by my count, you should have 3 with the extra hex feat). If all else fails, you'll be as effective as the kobolds on the strength check, and will last longer in contact with the chain.

Edgrin: Not sure we ever got stats for him, but he probably mostly has mind-affecting stuff, so he would be in a similar position to Chillel. Inspire Courage might help, but probably not enough to make a difference since it won't affect the strength checks.

Kobolds: Kerrdremak should stay back and instruct the other kobolds, and maybe use a spell or ranged weapon if he has an appropriate one. We need to keep him alive for the lower level. The other kobolds should keep the FS away from Goruck, and as many as can get into position to assist on the strength check should probably do so (they'll have a -1, but with several rolls, some of them will have to beat the DC10 to give Goruck a +2).

Fire damage from the chain could drop the kobolds, but max HP means they should have a couple of rounds before that happens if they're only taking fire damage from the chain. If we have anyone grabbing the chain to assist on the strength check, we'll want a Channel Energy to heal everyone afterwards anyway. Hopefully we can get enough assists that it will only take one round. An enlarged Goruck will have a strength modifier of 6, giving him an average strength check of 16.5, which would need two successful assist rolls (obviously, more if he rolls low, less if he rolls high). If Goruck has a string of low rolls and kobolds start biting the dust, Illiam might call a retreat after a couple of rounds, and we can leave the FS tethered to his chain and take the other route.

Any other ideas?

I found Edgrin's magic and added it to the knowledge reference document. I don't think we ever got any other stats for him, nor do we know if he regained use of spells or got new ones when the rest of us levelled up.

If it comes down to a fight my cold ray will hopefully be very effective. I do have fire resistance 10 so I'm good there.

Is my fire resistance something that should be listed as an active condition on my tag line?

If it comes down to a fight my cold ray will hopefully be very effective. I do have fire resistance 10 so I'm good there.

Is my fire resistance something that should be listed as an active condition on my tag line?

I'd put it under defense. Active Conditions is for things like Illiam's invisibility.

If you have fire resistance, it would definitely be a good idea for you to assist with breaking the chain, since you can do so without taking damage.

Chillel: Web bolt would be helpful if it worked, but I suspect it would immediately burn away.

I think it will burn too. I think I will keep the spell for later unless things get bad, when it might be worth a gamble.

You could use one of your cold damage spells, but if you do I would wait and ready an action to use it if the STR check fails, to avoid wasting it.

Seems sensible on both points.

If you have a hex that's not mind-affecting, that might work too. I couldn't find a list of your hexes (by my count, you should have 3 with the extra hex feat).

For some reason the hexes didn't get updated when my character was. I actually have 2 hexes, I lose my level 2 hex due to the Invoker archetype and my level 4 hex due to the Winter Witch archetype [I know we are only level 3]. My other hex is misfortune and I think that will affect undead. It's effect at present is- "The witch can cause a creature within 30 feet to suffer grave misfortune for 1 round. Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result. A Will save negates this hex." So it only lasts one round, but it is pretty crippling if the target does not save.

If all else fails, you'll be as effective as the kobolds on the strength check, and will last longer in contact with the chain.

My str is a rather pitiful 8. Chillel may, for the first time ever, plead the feeble girl to try and get out of pulling on the hot chain. I don't trust these kobolds as far as I can kick them. That is me not Goruck. I don't want to be injured if they turn on us.

I will move my picture up tomorrow. As you say, Mended is unlikely to post untill Monday.

And:

Crud. That was "crood". I had Kairon shoulder past Goruck for the coop-de-graycie because I was running the numbers based upon the 'longspear vs nodachi' angle, rather than considering the fact that he's got that axe nice and handy . . . .

My bad, dude.

EDIT: . . . . and even then -- I can't math. That is all.

Derpdedurrr.

No worries, I was busy anyways, and I'm glad someone got around to it.

As for the plan,

"Goruck: He should probably be the first one the FS sees. Go for the chain, Str check to break it (by my reading, having the end anchored with the stubborn nail should allow him to do this one-handed, or maybe get a bonus for using two hands?). I'm also assuming that since the chain is pinned, he can just grab it and pull as a standard action, but if Mended rules that a combat maneuver is necessary first, being large will make that easier. If it does, I'd think the one combat maneuver plus being pinned by the stubborn nail would immobilize it enough to allow others to grab it for assists (since anything between Goruck's hand and the nail will be pulled taut and thus immobile)."

The question remains, would my strength check be better than a sunder check in the probability to break the chain? Perhaps if Kairon could pull off a trip maneuver to buy time, we could use the action to create the chain breaking chain.

I think we determined that the strength check was best, especially since we can get a bunch of assist rolls on it.

I can see it now: a forge spurned dogpiled by a host of kobolds and Goruck, while Kairon drops a single channel to save them all from fiery death. #winning.

Okay, before we continue, I wanted to be very clear about something. The DC to break the chain is the exact same DC to pull the stubborn nail out of the ground... DC 20. If Goruck is pulling on the chain one handed, there is zero way for him to be sure he's accomplishing the one as opposed to the other. In a situation like that, I'd rule that there's a 50% chance of either happening, and allow Goruck to assign the % rolls as he sees fit. Meaning 1-50 = break the chain and 51-100 = pull out the stubborn nail, or vice versa.

That said, Goruck's latest action is going to draw the FS' attention, and it will, indeed, turn to attack the new threat. This will, of course, cause him to realize that his chain is attached to the ground near the anvil. This will, obviously, restrict his movement to the 10' radius around the anvil, because there's no way he'd risk breaking his soul chain just to get freedom of movement.

Crud. Forgot to call in a token assist this weekend. Ah, well.

Let's do this thing!

Okay, before we continue, I wanted to be very clear about something. The DC to break the chain is the exact same DC to pull the stubborn nail out of the ground... DC 20. If Goruck is pulling on the chain one handed, there is zero way for him to be sure he's accomplishing the one as opposed to the other. In a situation like that, I'd rule that there's a 50% chance of either happening, and allow Goruck to assign the % rolls as he sees fit. Meaning 1-50 = break the chain and 51-100 = pull out the stubborn nail, or vice versa.

For obvious reasons, I was hoping you'd go with the other interpretation (that meeting a DC20 would do both, rather than doing one or the other). I'm glad you clarified.

So, in that case, either Goruck should pull it apart with both hands or the various assists should be pulling away from Goruck (tug of war style), which should accomplish the same thing as everyone pulling together against the nail, but without putting stress on the nail. Right?

So, in that case, either Goruck should pull it apart with both hands or the various assists should be pulling away from Goruck (tug of war style), which should accomplish the same thing as everyone pulling together against the nail, but without putting stress on the nail. Right?

I'm not sure what you mean Illiam? Are you saying everyone grabs a hold of Goruck and pulls on him, as he's pulling on the chain? In which case you're saying the angle of the pull actually affects which happens first, the chain breaks or the nail comes out? I suppose I could see that argument, but you'd have to have enough slack in the chain to actually have that angular pull. With only 30 links, the chain wrapped around the FS, around Jurin, and both ends currently clasped in his left hand, I don't know that there's that much chain to get a tug on... Or am I reading you incorrectly?

Goruck, I've been meaning to ask: what language are you using for Necril? I keep forgetting, each time you remind us.

And: I already moved Kairon's token up, so no need to adjust that after Mended gets the forge spurned's action posted in gameplay.

Looks like Goruck has distinguished himself in starting the process of smashing the chain.

Me I am relegated to support and watching party members backs vs untrustworthy kobolds by the nature of the encounter.

Illiam Taal wrote:

So, in that case, either Goruck should pull it apart with both hands or the various assists should be pulling away from Goruck (tug of war style), which should accomplish the same thing as everyone pulling together against the nail, but without putting stress on the nail. Right?

I'm not sure what you mean Illiam? Are you saying everyone grabs a hold of Goruck and pulls on him, as he's pulling on the chain? In which case you're saying the angle of the pull actually affects which happens first, the chain breaks or the nail comes out? I suppose I could see that argument, but you'd have to have enough slack in the chain to actually have that angular pull. With only 30 links, the chain wrapped around the FS, around Jurin, and both ends currently clasped in his left hand, I don't know that there's that much chain to get a tug on... Or am I reading you incorrectly?

No, I'm suggesting that Goruck grabs it and pulls it one way, everybody else pulls it the other way. The net force on the chain in between in that case would be the same as if they were all pulling in one direction against a fixed point.