Mended Wall's PBP for beginners (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

BATTLE GRID

Current Initative = Illiam, Kairon, Bombardier, Chillel, Dolok, Goruck, Merlokrep


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Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
Illiam Taal wrote:

Well, if you took Keep Watch, that would give us some flexibility in terms of who needs to save a slot for it (or give us the ability to have multiple watchers, especially on days when you don't use all of your spells, since you can use as many slots as you have left, whereas I need to reserve a slot at the beginning of the day). I plan to continue leaving a first-level slot open, but it would be nice to be able to use it for another utility spell if it turns out that there's one we really need for some unexpected event.

Burning Hands would, of course, be a thematic choice, but if you want to branch-out in terms of damage types (which I think is a better idea that sticking to one element), you could go for something like Snowball (though I think Chillel is building most of her character around that one), Ear-Piercing Scream, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Enfeeblement, etc. Hydraulic Push could also make a great one-two punch with my new Create Pit spell.

All good suggestions Illiam! Thank-you!

Since my character is very much a thematic build and is Efreeti blooded AND we seem to have no AoE damage, I did go with Burning Hands. I seriously considered some of the others, but only getting 1 spell, I had to go with my character's choice. Plus I now have 3 feats all focused towards my evocation! Varisian Tattoo, Spell Focus and my newest feat Greater Spell Focus, so it makes sense to take a spell that follows that path.

I agree with the branching out in terms of damage type as well and do plan to do that. It is interesting to point out though that due to my Efreeti bloodline, any spell that does energy damage, I can convert it to Fire if I want to! So that gives me the ability to take, let's say a 'cold' or 'electric' spell and do fire instead!

Also my Efreeti blood, grants me Enlarge Person as a bonus Spell at this level. GORUCK, ARE YOU READY FOR THAT ONE? :D

And I have a silly question for you Mended, our wonderful, mighty, GRRRREAT DM! Since I have the Varisian Tattoo which grants me Dancing Lights as a Spell like ability (3 x day), AND I also have it as one of my cantrips, ... would you allow me, with two rounds and two standard actions of course! - to have two different versions of it going at the same time if I felt such a need? You know, say if I wanted lights were we are and a humanoid shaped light somewhere else? or even just to extend the area I can light up? - Like I said, a silly question most likely, but oh well, can't hurt to ask ...

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Dolok Pickering wrote:
I agree with the branching out in terms of damage type as well and do plan to do that. It is interesting to point out though that due to my Efreeti bloodline, any spell that does energy damage, I can convert it to Fire if I want to! So that gives me the ability to take, let's say a 'cold' or 'electric' spell and do fire instead!

All the more reason to go with anything BUT a fire spell. If you choose a fire spell, you just get a fire spell. If you choose any other element, you get thematic a fire spell AND the normal version. I can see the desire for an AoE, though (though I hope we don't end up needing one any time soon).


1: You'll need more than one AoE in the not too distant future. One BBEG between you and the lower caverns, though, said BBEG can be avoided, pretty easily actually.

2: Dolok, I agree with Illiam about the picking a different elemental spell purely from the standpoint that if you can change something to fire damage, taking a fire damage spell is... redundant? But, like I also just said, you're going to be wanting an AoE you can spam-click in the near future.

3: Illiam, about the focus for Create Pit, I have zero problem with you using the traveler's anytool. With the way Illiam has shown the versatility of his magic, using a versatile tool as the focus only seems... more appropriate? If such a thing can be true.

4: Illiam, when I said "as if you had rested for eight hours," I also meant, of course, and prepared spells. All of that happens auto-magically when you level up in my games. Phenomenal cosmic power! Itty bitty living space. :D

5: Kairon, do you mean this spell: close wounds? If so, I don't see a problem with you taking that, when you get access to level three spells, since it is listed as a level three spell. It's certainly not game breaking to be able to instantly heal 2d4 damage. Especially when you consider that when you get access to level three spells, you'll also have access to cure serious wounds, which is 3d8 +1/per level... So, when you get access to level three spells, you have my permission to add that to your list of availables to "shift-click."

Oh! Almost forgot. 6: Enlarge Person? What the hell does that have to do with being an Efreeti blooded sorcerer? Great spell, also very versatile. Now I'm imagining a large (mechanically speaking) "Glintaxe" traipsing through the lower caverns sending masses of kobolds screaming in his wake. Illiam casts Silent Image to create the same "shimmering" effect in the air around him, and Edgrin casts Ghost Sound to create the sound of vaporizing stone... and, well... Let's just say I don't think a whole lot of the kobolds down below can even make that Sense Motive roll. :D :D :D :D Unless they nat 20 of course. ;0

Any other questions?


OH! I did forget! 7: Dolok, I have zero problem with you casting two different sets of Dancing lights. Just remember that you'd only be able to do that three times a day, and if you dropped one to recast, to change the light level or appearance, you'll want to make sure it's the cantrip not the SLA.


To my understanding, the Spell Compendium superceded Miniatures Handbook -- primarily because MH was 3.0-legal, and SC was 3.5 . . . .

I do recall, though, that when we originally discussed this, that I remembered the 2d4 from MH and the 2nd-level slot from SC. Convenient, right? I'll do some more digging and post a link to refresh us on it fully as soon as I can (underpaid, overworked, *and* short-staffed today).

>.>

<.<

Or, maybe, just go ahead and do it . . . .


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
MendedWall12 wrote:
1: You'll need more than one AoE in the not too distant future. One BBEG between you and the lower caverns, though, said BBEG can be avoided, pretty easily actually.

Pardon my ignorance, BBEG?

MendedWall12 wrote:
2: Dolok, I agree with Illiam about the picking a different elemental spell purely from the standpoint that if you can change something to fire damage, taking a fire damage spell is... redundant? But, like I also just said, you're going to be wanting an AoE you can spam-click in the near future.

Yes, I also agree with fire spells being kind of 'redundant', but they seem to be some of the best damage/death/destruction spells out there! So, that will be my primary reason for taking them anyways.

And I don't know about 'spam-clicking' per say, I do only have 6 1st level spells and that's where my Mage Armor and Magic missile come from as well! Plus the new Enlarge Person!

MendedWall12 wrote:

... Bunch a stuff to other people ...

Oh! Almost forgot. 6: Enlarge Person? What the hell does that have to do with being an Efreeti blooded sorcerer? Great spell, also very versatile. Now I'm imagining a large (mechanically speaking) "Glintaxe" traipsing through the lower caverns sending masses of kobolds screaming in his wake. Illiam casts Silent Image to create the same "shimmering" effect in the air around him, and Edgrin casts Ghost Sound to create...

I know right? Enlarge Person? Hehehehe.

At 9th level I gain the ability (Not spell, but actual ability!) to become a Large Efreeti once per day for 1 round per level, And at 17th level I get the bonus spell, Giant Form II! So apparently there must be something about Efreeti's being giants or something like that?

On a side note, at 19th level I get the bonus spell Wish and at 20th level I gain the ability to cast Limited Wish once per day. That seems kind of ... contradictory? If at 19th level I can cast a full-on 'wish' spell, then how much of an 'advantage' is it at 20th level to get the 'limited wish' ability?

And this is all due to my Efreeti bloodline. :D


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
MendedWall12 wrote:
OH! I did forget! 7: Dolok, I have zero problem with you casting two different sets of Dancing lights. Just remember that you'd only be able to do that three times a day, and if you dropped one to recast, to change the light level or appearance, you'll want to make sure it's the cantrip not the SLA.

Cool!!! Thanks! You are being very generous with Dancing Lights! And yes, of course it is only the 3 per day and yes cantrip to change light level etc.

And by the way, tag line and character sheet all updated! As always, it's fun leveling up a character! Though I must admit, since I'm playing an extremely similar character in my Wednesday night tabletop and we just leveled up to 12th level, it just makes Dolok seem so puny!

My 12th level sorcerer (also an Efreeti bloodline) just learned Chain Lightning!!! At a range of up to 920 ft, target one creature who gets a reflex save DC 26 for half of 13 d6 damage! and up to one creature per level (so 13 more!), within 30 ft, Reflex DC 24 for half of the same amount of damage! And those numbers will only go up with my levels! And I can do that as electrical or fire damage! The good part with that one is I don't have to worry about any of my allies being in the affected area! (Fireball is great, but sucks when those melee type allies go rushing in!)


Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.
Illiam Taal wrote:
As for choosing a feat, Chillel is more of an optimizer than I am, so s/he might have more suggestions

S/he?

It is my nephew niece that is transgender, not I. But playing characters whose gender is at odds with the player leads to such terms.

I might be more of an optimiser, but my general knowledge of the Pathfinder rules isn't as good as some.

The feats quicken, intensify and empower spell are all good for you in the long term. The last is on your bloodline spell list and none of them are exactly useful now.

Illiam, not surprisingly, gave sensible suggestions for feats. Improved initiative is perhaps the one I would take. Then there is craft wondrous item if that is your thing.

Spells. Spontaneous casters want something generally useful, cos they have such a limited no of spells they can use. Snowball is good, don't know if it so fits your concept. Grease, detect evil, reduce person, shield perhaps.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Chillel wrote:
Then there is craft wondrous item if that is your thing.

That would be redundant, since it's the feat the *I* took this level.

Besides, Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Forge Ring would make more sense for Dolok.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Dolok Pickering wrote:
MendedWall12 wrote:
1: You'll need more than one AoE in the not too distant future. One BBEG between you and the lower caverns, though, said BBEG can be avoided, pretty easily actually.
Pardon my ignorance, BBEG?

Big Bad Evil Guy.

Dolok Pickering wrote:
On a side note, at 19th level I get the bonus spell Wish and at 20th level I gain the ability to cast Limited Wish once per day. That seems kind of ... contradictory? If at 19th...

Look at the material components. Casting Wish costs 25,000gp. Limited wish is only 1,500gp, and if you're casting it as an SLA, there is no material cost. That's the difference.


Male NG Half Orc Samurai (Shogun) 1/Kineticist 2 Half Orc | HP: 23/35 Nonlethal:| AC: 21/26 with shield (11 Tch, 20 Fl) | CMB: +7, CMD: 18 | F: +9, R: +6, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +2, SM: +8 | Speed 30ft (20 in armor | Challenges: 0/1 | Resolve: 4/4 | Burn: 6/6 | DR-Adamantine: 1 | Active conditions: None.

Kairon, I'm planning on taking the power attack this level so that I can get access to cleave later on, if that helps your decision at all.

Also, I've been debating elemental whispers, earth climb, and kinetic cover. I was wondering what the groups thoughts were?

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Kinetic cover sounds like the most versatile of those to me.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Elemental Whispers or kinetic cover I would say.


Kinetic Cover could be super useful for Illiam since he now has invisibility. Kinetic cover provides total cover, he goes invisible, and then gets into position to blast enemies with color spray or the like...

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Not sure why Illiam would need cover to go invisible. Even if he's being observed when he casts it, the observers just see him disappear. If he takes a standard to cast, then moves, enemies can't even attack his square blindly (50% miss chance). I suppose it might be a little better if they didn't know he was invisible, but he shouldn't really be casting Invisibility in combat anyway unless he's trying to escape (if he did, Vanish would be a better spell for initiating the kind of tactic you mentioned when already in combat). Unless I'm missing something?

What might be a decent tactic would be to coordinate with Goruck ahead of time for him to create a Kinetic cover in a specified location, while Illiam moves to that spot and readies an action to cast his spell from behind the cover as soon as it appears, breaking his invisibility but giving him some protection from AoOs as he retreats from any enemies that save against the effects. Is that closer to what you were proposing? Anyway, I don't think that's necessary, since (by my reading, let me know if you disagree) the spell cast while invisible shouldn't provoke because they can't see him until after he casts it, then he has his Shift ability that can get him out of range for an AoO as a swift action, leaving him a move action to run away. I'm also thinking of this as a way of starting combat (and likely finishing it as well), which would mean that the enemies would be flat-footed, which means they can't take AoOs anyway unless they have Combat Reflexes.


I was thinking more along the lines of you being caught unawares, which, due to things, is a real possibility in parts of the rest of this module. But your ideas for tactics are perfectly sound. I think your reading of the rules for AoO's with invisibility is right on the money, because an AoO actually takes place "before" the action that triggers it, which, if you try to think about it too long creates migraine headaches. How can an action occur before the action that triggered it? Is every combatant a mind reader, and they knew you were going to move out of their threatened square, or cast a spell within a threatened square? I know that having an AoO occur before the action that triggered it prevents weirdness like the never-ending trip loop, but it sure is weird from a realism standpoint. Regardless, you are right, that if a character is invisible when they start casting a spell, they are immune to AoO's because the AoO has to occur before the action that caused it, and you cannot AoO something you can't see. :D


Illiam, addressing your OOC in game post, YES leveling up does allow you to swap out previous spells. That's kind of why I narrated it in the game so "magically," like being touched by the gods. In my games, leveling up is a powerful thing that can change the course of the game. At one of my table games I saw things going sour, and I actually had the characters level up in the midst of a combat (both because they had just killed a significant foe - but more foes remained, but also because I didn't want them to die.) :D


Forewarned being forearmed (or somesuch -- I already have forearms, but whatever), I'm still parsing my spell slot options.

I think I'm gonna keep burning hands as my domain 1, and obscuring mist for utility, but the other two firsts? Stunning barrier has some appeal, but the duration of 3 rounds inclines me away from it. Bless would likely be handy, since it could help 4 of the 5 of us (don't think Illiam will be making many attack rolls). Divine favor is a personal favorite, and the duration is good, I think. I'm seriously considering prepping bless twice.

As for seconds: placebo effect could come in handy, given that cause fear is likely to be an issue; the offensive power of produce flame has obvious appeal (to me) -- the domain slot is up for grabs, kinda. Lesser restoration at least once is a lock, but delay poison could buy us even more time, especially if Goruck or Kairon fail a Fort save.

Feedback?


I've always been kind of partial to Command and Murderous Command.

You! Stop right there! You! Go kill him!

As for the 2's, there's a Pathfinder only spell that, interestingly, I know about because I have a character in a Skull and Shackles PbP, that can be a game changer at level 2: Cloud of Seasickness. I actually think that Kairon having that fits him thematically because of his strong dislike for boat rides! If he could use such a sickness offensively to weaken his opponents, I'm certain he would. I'd also be willing to narrate that the extremely wet nature of the stone in this ossuary has caused some rare seaweed to start growing from the dripping ceiling (for the material component) ... :D

Eat magical boat-rides foul spawn!


Oy! Also, frick, can't believe I forgot Sound Burst!!! That one has always been one of my personal favorites. Not only are you doing 1d8 damage to everything in a ten foot area, you are also creating a chance to stun them all for one round. As AoE's go, it is a rather nice one.


Cloud of seasickness and sound burst were both also on the list; forgot to mention them earlier.

And the cloud of seasickness would be a hilarious tool in Kairon's spell list!


Don't forget to update your quick bars with all the updated info, including class/levels... :) Goruck, you still show as level 2. ;-0

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Now that Illiam has Craft Wondrous, and in case I forget to mention it at the appropriate time, I want to declare now that Illiam is going to begin work on crafting a set of Sleeves of Many Garments as soon as possible. If anyone has any requests for other low-level magic items, you can let me know now so that I can start planning, though I figure your characters will have to see him working on the sleeves before they would know to ask.


Thanks for the heads-up. :) I'm figuring that "down time" after this module will be quite a bit more involved. In fact, I'm thinking it is possible that, depending on how they feel, Kairon and Goruck may want to return to Almas to check in with superiors. That would, of course, pose a pretty decent narrative threat to keeping this group together though... So we'll have to discuss that in more complexity when it gets closer.


Go *looking* for authority figures to tell me *more* stuff to do??!!

Shyeah. *That'll* happen.


Syrus Terrigan wrote:

Go *looking* for authority figures to tell me *more* stuff to do??!!

Shyeah. *That'll* happen.

Ah, so Kairon will want to just hang about in Falcon's Hollow, maybe see if his flirtations with Kimi's mom, Kitani, go anywhere...? ;) I guess I'll have to find some way to get a new adventure hook to you in this remote location... Hmmmmmmm

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Illiam will be up for leaving, but not to go back where he came from (I forget whether we landed on that being Almas or somewhere else along the ship's route, will go back and look when I have more time).


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Dolok is content to stay here, but would not be opposed to go exploring the world either! :D I'm easy to get along with for the most part.


I do have a question, Mended --

What are the possible consequences of a dedicated healer of the goddess of healing using a spell with the [poison] descriptor as a matter of course? 'Cause it *could* be argued that such "should" be frowned upon, I suppose . . . .

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Illiam Taal wrote:
Illiam will be up for leaving, but not to go back where he came from (I forget whether we landed on that being Almas or somewhere else along the ship's route, will go back and look when I have more time).

Looks like we landed on Illiam boarding the ship at Absolom, then the ship docked at Almas and picked up the others before heading up the river. This means that Illiam would definitely have a reason to go to Almas, because although it is back in the direction of Absolom, which he is trying to get away from, it's his best chance of finding a ship that will take him further away from Absolom. Of course, his Absolom troubles are almost certain not to find him in Falcon's Hollow, but he's not a dinky little town kind of guy, and would rather find another big city far away. He also has a taste for adventuring now, but if he wants to become a great adventurer, Falcon's hollow isn't the place to do that, either (in his eyes, at least).

Of course, some urban adventuring and RP opportunities would be fun, as a player, I wouldn't mind exploring Illiam's backstory some more, though it would be hard to justify Illiam making decisions that would lead to that any time soon...


Syrus Terrigan wrote:

I do have a question, Mended --

What are the possible consequences of a dedicated healer of the goddess of healing using a spell with the [poison] descriptor as a matter of course? 'Cause it *could* be argued that such "should" be frowned upon, I suppose . . . .

Syrus, I made the determination, a LONG time ago, in a different game at the tabletop, that sometimes the best way to heal, is to destroy the cancer... Get my drift?


Yup.


Male NG Half Orc Samurai (Shogun) 1/Kineticist 2 Half Orc | HP: 23/35 Nonlethal:| AC: 21/26 with shield (11 Tch, 20 Fl) | CMB: +7, CMD: 18 | F: +9, R: +6, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +2, SM: +8 | Speed 30ft (20 in armor | Challenges: 0/1 | Resolve: 4/4 | Burn: 6/6 | DR-Adamantine: 1 | Active conditions: None.

Sorry about that, I'll hop right on it. I actually made the changes, I just need to bump my level up for kineticist.

The Order of the Stone would probably be willing to support Goruck, he is after all aiding spellcasters. Though I was maybe considering changing his order to that of the dragon, what with his whole psuedo magic, and the group dynamic.


I was out of pocket last two days (road trip for a funeral of a good friend's mother). Will be back to posting regularly a bit later today.


While I'm at it:

Power Attack to boost our DPR a bit? Or Spell Focus (conjuration) to set the stage for summoning (and, interestingly, boost the save DC of a certain "magical boat ride")? I am still having difficulty making up my mind -- the damage vs debuff dilemma. Illiam and Chillel have us covered well in the debuff/status effect category thus far, and I like playing Kairon as a battle cleric, but boosting Str or Wis in the future is still up in the air . . . . Get more of what we don't have? Or more of what we do?


Do you want my opinion? I'd say there's more than enough effective magic to go around, what this group needs more of is somebody who can wade into combat and be effective, the loss of the son of Scipio and Baradim has not been fully felt yet, but it will be, and soon. I'd say go with Power Attack, that doesn't mean Kairon is any less of a magical threat, it just means he's more of a physical threat. That's what I love about clerics, cast in medium armor without failure chance, wield weapons as well as many of the 3/4 BAB "martial" classes, and heal everybody up when needed. I have always loved to play clerics for that very reason, very versatile... :)


I have to admit -- those are very nearly my exact feelings on the matter; I still want to make a decision that somewhat jives with the expectations and needs of the team. For that reason, I'll hold off cementing anything for about 6 - 8 more hours, just in case anyone else wants to contribute their coppers to the count.

Really looking forward to what's ahead!!

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Mended makes some good points. The only reason I might consider not going with power attack is the effect on BAB progression. In exchange for extra damage, power attack effectively turns full-BAB classes into 3/4-BAB. Giving the feat to a class that is already 3/4-BAB effectively reduces your BAB progression to level x .5625, which is closer to half-BAB than it is to 3/4. This means that your hit/miss ratio will go down, particularly for the higher-CR creatures we face at each level.

Now, there have been times when I'm pretty sure Mended has given us higher-CR encounters than the module called for (though in fairness, most of them were while we had an overly-large party). In some cases, it appeared that he just added more "minion" creatures, and such creatures often go down with one good hit. Power attack makes you a little less likely to hit them, but much less likely to need to hit them twice.

The other thing that I suspect he's done in some situations is apply the Advanced template or add class levels (and appropriate equipment) to a creature. This usually involves an AC increase, which puts a creature outside the expected range, and in these cases, further reducing your effective BAB can quickly make your to-hit chances dwindle. Of course, you can always elect not to use Power Attack, but when you're up against something with a whole mess of hit points, that's a tough decision to make (especially when you don't have the exact numbers needed to calculate the effect of their AC on your DPR). Enemies with damage reduction (that you don't have the means to bypass), on the other hand, really need to be fought with power attack or not at all.

So, I guess my advice would be to take power attack, but consider not using it all the time...


Man you're mechanical aptitude for this game is beyond compare. It is a humbling privilege to be on this side of the "screen" from you Illiam. You make some really good points, and after looking at them, I'd like to change my opinion, perhaps taking Weapon Focus longspear instead...? That increases your to hit chances, which, I believe, in the long run would actually increase your damage output, since you'll hit more often. I'm no good at the maths, but I believe the +1 to hit would actually be a better benefit than the increase in damage for those enemies that you do hit...

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

I was just checking your character sheet, but it doesn't appear to be updated. I see, though, that you have a 16 in STR. That's alright, but you'd like to see a little higher (at least if it was a 17, your modifier could go up next level) for a character with a martial focus, especially without full BAB progression. I think I agree with Mended that increasing how often you hit is a better place to focus first. Weapon focus is one way to do that, but you might also think about how to get more out of your Combat Reflexes feat. I'd be tempted to say that your first ability bump should go to dex, which would get you an extra AoO per round, but only if you can find ways to actually get them on a regular basis.

I have a character in another game, for instance, who is a human brawler carrying a shield and a small-sized longspear (which he uses with a penalty, but it's only for AoOs, and he uses unarmed strikes the rest of the time). That game is frustratingly slow, with the GM checking in twice a week if we're lucky, so we're only in the second round of the second combat, but my tactic with that character is to jump into the middle of combat and try to get a bunch of attacks by forcing everyone to try to gang up on me, thereby giving me lots of AoO opportunities. I attacked one guy in the first round, then immediately left him behind (I think with 1 HP left) and attacked another guy, because doing so put two of their buddied 15 ft away from me, and likely to get AoOs. It's a dangerous tactic, especially at level 1 (thus the shield), but the point is that I'm looking for every angle to get as many attacks as possible each round. Btw, combat reflexes is my Martial Flexibility feat, and if the bad guys get more concentrated, I plan to switch to Cleave (which I used in the first combat, before I had the spear).

Another way to use positioning to get more hits would be to go for flanking more often, giving you a to-hit bonus. It won't work until at least level 4, but a tactic we might try in the future would be for Illiam to sneak around the enemy, then run in to deliver a touch spell while you are on the other side of the enemy with a readied action to attack when Illiam is there to provide a flanking bonus (you would also be giving him that bonus on the touch attack). Illiam would then shift away before the end of his turn to get out of range without taking an AoO, but you would get one if the enemy tries to pursue him.


. . . .

I think I'm missing something in the line of reasoning supporting WF.

At what point does WF *ever* catch up to PA in terms of damage?

I could see going with WF if I had a good way to get some manner of rider effect on successful attacks, but that would incline me toward a less feat-starved multiclass option . . . .

The Exchange

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Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Quite simply, if you don't hit, you don't do any damage. If you are mostly up against guys that you have a 50/50 chance of hitting, Weapon focus makes that a 55% chance of hitting. If you're going up against someone who you only have a 10% chance of hitting, however, weapon focus makes it 15%, or 150% as likely as without it, making it equivalent to a 1.5x increase in damage when calculating DPR. Of course, hopefully the situation isn't that grim, but it illustrates that to-hit bonuses can be more valuable than damage bonuses, especially when the damage bonus comes with a to-hit penalty, like with Power Attack.


Okie-doke . . . .

Well, as Samuel L. Jackson said so many moons ago: "Hold on to your butts!"


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Yes, being able to hit more often is better. Simply put. Without all the extra math and stuff. Just makes common sense. If you don't hit, who cares how much damage potential you have?

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Yes, though you do need the math part to figure out at what point a damage bonus becomes more valuable. On the other end of the spectrum, if your to-hit bonus is so high that you will hit on anything above a 2, you have a 90% chance of hitting, and taking that to 95% is less than a 6% increase in DPR, whereas if you are doing 1d8+4 damage and have a chance to add a +2 (assuming for this purpose that it doesn't come with a to-hit penalty like power attack), that's approximately a 21% increase in DPR.

Of course, to-hit bonuses also become more valuable when you get access to iterative attacks, since those use a lower BAB.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Illiam, I know you are most likely correct. Me not like math. Me hear blah, blah, blah. Sorry. Please take no offense! It is not at you, but at the math. I do consider myself slightly smarter than the average 'joe' out there, but you are DEFINITELY NOT the average joe! And you can consider that a compliment. I just never did learn/understand math very well.

The Exchange

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Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

To put things in perspective, we can now expect typical "minion" creatures to be ~CR3 and bigger baddies to be as high as CR6. The monster statistics by CR table tells us that we can expect to see ACs of at least 15, while some could be higher than 20. Using those examples and what I think Kairon's stats are (extrapolated), his DPR with Weapon Focus is 4.95 vs. AC15 and 2.88 vs. 20AC. With Power Attack, it's 5.22 vs. 15AC and 2.61 vs. 20AC. As you can see, weapon focus is more effective against the higher ACs than Power Attack. If Mended does continue to throw higher CRs at us than the module calls for, that could tip the balance in favor of Weapon Focus.


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In other news:

Mended, it appears that I have been getting away with murder (of a sort). When we went through the "shopping trip" portion of our story after distributing the tea, I thought that I had shed enough weight to be carrying a light load -- and I was wrong. I've finally adjusted the weight of my armor, cut the longspear weight in half, and noted that my waterskins are empty, and I'm still 1.5 pounds over my light load limit. I will take steps in-game to correct that forthwith -- particularly, leaving my bedroll with the kids once we drop off the ingrate Vade.

Oooooo! My dad could out-cast you guys! So lame! . . . . I dunno why he didn't come for me . . . . Who decided sending the B-team was okay? Huh?

Shut yer yap, kid! Or we'll lock you in with the spiders, like we almost did that one guy!

________

Anyhow -- back to the game, in short order! :D


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Ahh! There!

Stuff's updated. Gameplay post made. 'Nat 1' roll dumped on a non-combat event.

Success!!


I'm glad my *subtle* personality items came through loud and clear. I was wondering if anybody would pick up on his little bit of a superiority complex. Which I thought was beautifully ironic. How do you have a superiority complex right after cowering behind an anvil from a bunch of ancient dwarven skeletons that, quite literally, weren't even moving to attack? To come away from that and then hint at the fact that your rescuers are the, as you so eloquently put it, "B squad," should have ruffled a few feathers, at least from my estimation. Didn't really see that in-character from anybody... Yet anyway.

On the subject of getting away with traveling under a medium load... Meh. I've never really cared too terribly much about the encumbrance rules, though I do like to keep an eye on those things, and, mechanically speaking, it may have actually made a difference in a couple situations, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Thank you for noticing. Thank you for fixing it.

@Illiam, thanks for the math that supported what I just kind of took on blind faith, that hitting more often is better, long term, than hitting less often but for more damage. :)

We're still waiting on Chillel, both to level up, and to make an in game post... I'd rather not head towards what's coming without her up to speed. I'll make an in game post later today that "speeds things up," and hope that we've heard from her (I know her player is a guy) before that post happens. Chillel, if you're out there, help a brother out!

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