Mended Wall's PBP for beginners (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

BATTLE GRID

Current Initative = Illiam, Kairon, Bombardier, Chillel, Dolok, Goruck, Merlokrep


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The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

So, here's my plan, which is still pretty rough. First, ideally, we would put the hellhound to sleep without the Forge Spurned being aware of us. Then Illiam turns invisible, goes in, and puts the stubborn nail through the forgespurned's chain. We can melt some of Illiam's animal glue and put it over then end so that it's slippery and he can't grab the nail directly. In order to break the stubborn nail loose at that point, he will have to pull on the chain and beat a DC20, which is also enough to sunder his chain, killing him permanently.

By my reading, using the stubborn nail this way (as opposed to putting it through the forge spurned himself, which should also be possible since he's undead) should not break his invisibility.

If he can do all that without drawing attention, he might be able to get the kid out. He should bring a healing potion with him in case the kid needs it (Illiam still doesn't have one). If the Forge Spurned immediately notices it's been leashed, Illiam can try to run out the back way, and the others can attack him from behind before he's aware that Illiam isn't alone (at which point he'll probably be trying to follow Illiam and at the end of his leash, leaving it vulnerable to sundering by the party rushing in from the other side).

Let me know if I've made any assumptions that the GM doesn't agree with.


All predictions guaranteed wrong or your money back...


Seriously though, couple things... 1) Illiam does not have fast stealth, which means, if he is, in fact, going to employ stealth while being invisible, to provide the most ample bonus, he'll be moving at 10' a round (half speed). Now, add into that the fact that the module says the smoke in the tunnels is enough to provide concealment, and, as you get closer to the FS himself, block vision beyond 5', and you've now got a *2 modifier to movement, meaning one square costs two due to hampered movement from poor visibility, and now Illiam is literally only able to move 5' a round while stealthy. Couple that with the fact that the cavern where the FS resides has only one entrance and exit corridor. So, I guess, point being, the whole "run out the back way," is not very feasible. Walk stealthily out the back way without being noticed, might work.

But! All that might be moot because 2) "The chain also attacks once per round independently of its forge spurned master (using its master’s melee attack bonus)." My reading of that says that the chain very much has an ego, intelligence, has supernatural power, and, at least by my thought process, is able to act independently of the undead monstrosity it is connected to. Which means, again, by my way of thinking, the whole, pushing a stubborn nail through a link into the stony ground or cave wall, would meet with some pretty immediate and severe resistance on the part of the chain...

Cawffee talk, I'll give you a tawpic: "The chain of the Forge Spurned is a magical weapon with ego and intelligence, or not." Discuss. It's like butta.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

I read that more as the chain has the Dancing weapon property, but without the limitation on rounds. It doesn't seem to have any of the properties of an Intelligent Item.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Also if Illiam gets noticed, he'll break stealth and use his action to move to get away. If it's difficult terrain and he can't run, that's still 20ft for a double move action. He really doesn't want to get hit by that Forge Breath, even with the Ring of Torag.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

The more I think about it, the less sense it makes for the chain itself to be able to catch Illiam trying to put the stubborn nail through it. Does the module give ability scores for the chain? The text you quoted says that it uses the FS's attack bonus, which strongly suggests that it doesn't have ability scores of its own. If it doesn't have stats, it can't make a perception check, and it certainly can't be intelligent.


I think the quickest way for me to chip in my take on it is this:

1) no stats for the chain to be treated as an intelligent item
2) specific description indicates it may attack without using the forge spurned's action
3) text reads that the chain may drag a victim to the forge, with no reference to the FS *or* a mechanism to do so -- very odd
4) described as being willing to serve a new master, but no mention of *how* it is, itself, differentiated from the forge spurned beyond "It's a chain. There it is."

For my part, I think the "bad-guy best-case" would be this:

I) chain attacks as directed (free action)
II) chain can be directed to detach from FS to drag victim to forge/bellows (but using what stats? it has no listed speed or strength, nor even an indication of the grab ability or such like . . . .)
III) given the absence of intelligent item stats, I believe that the chain can operate independently of the FS, but only in those two capacities -- strike, or haul
IV) I believe the chain would be totally reliant on the FS's senses/perception in order to function; and if it's constructed of imprisoned souls, how much dramatic license could be injected into its role in the story??

Addendum: it could only be a pipe dream for the thing to detach during the fight so we could hit the FS more easily. Because on *that* point . . . .

EDIT: All that above in this segment is hinged upon "rules as written". I am a frequent invoker of GM liberties, and this instance could easily be an appropriate time for such. But, frankly, I DO NOT want to fight this opponent "off the chain".
_______________
. . . If only I had prepped resist energy.

This fight could be well addressed by enlarging Kairon in order to mitigate the impact of this foe's reach with said chain, allowing Goruck, Chillel, and Illiam to concentrate on the hellhound. Dolok's crossbow could be a great help here, for either foe. Once the hellhound is down, we concentrate on setting Goruck up to sunder the chain -- well . . . post-fight, anyway.
______________
Tangential point:

Wow. I mean, WOW. This is easily one of the top three awesome undead I've ever come across. I'd even be willing to *play* one of these!

The story potential with this monster is crazy kinds of good. And a +3 spiked chain (and flaming, at that) would be awesome . . . . Take it, use it for a bit, and break it before sundown??! Hoo, boy. Nevermind the adamantine hammer!!

It wouldn't take too much finagling to turn the FS into a cliffhanger battle -- for any party. The matters of power-hunger, the moral implications of keeping the chain of a defeated FS, the plotline development of having a reconstituted FS coming after a party member, the cost of helping an ally who was claimed by the curse, . . . .

This beastie is well and truly hijacked!! I'm putting at *least* one in my homebrew campaign . . . .


And this deserves a separate post: has everyone gotten in all the words they want with Kerrdremak before Kairon starts trying to hash out the brass tacks?? I'm not trying to break us out of Mended's established post pattern requirements (we all know I've been far from compliant, and more than once), but I've caught a fresh burst of dedication to this game, and I'm ready to move this chapter toward its conclusion in a big way. Post up, folks!! :)

And, to say it again:

Thank you, Mended, for keeping this game running, man. Easily in the top two favorite campaigns of which I have been a part. Thanks again.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Syrus Terrigan wrote:
Thank you, Mended, for keeping this game running, man. Easily in the top two favorite campaigns of which I have been a part. Thanks again.

+1


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
Illiam Taal wrote:
Syrus Terrigan wrote:
Thank you, Mended, for keeping this game running, man. Easily in the top two favorite campaigns of which I have been a part. Thanks again.
+1

Dido! :D

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Syrus Terrigan wrote:
I'd even be willing to *play* one of these!

Well, you might have the chance.

Forge Spurned wrote:
Anyone may claim a felled forge spurned’s chain, and it will serve its new master willingly, although the wielder must make a DC 20 Will save each sundown or be transformed into a forge spurned, damned to continue collecting souls.

Of course, you'll have the original forever on your tail, trying to get it back.

Forge Spurned wrote:
If a forge spurned is felled and its chain taken by another, it seethes in dark fury. A forge spurned stops at nothing to retrieve its chain, lest it be forced to forge another, extending its period of burning torment.

I suppose if you fail the check and become a forge spurned, then the chain is sundered, it kills both you and the original forge spurned (who, up until then, are locked in an eternal and otherwise unendable battle over that chain)?


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Excuse me? "A hulking dwarf"?!?! Dwarf are supposed to be short! How can a dwarf be hulking? - Ah! My nistake, when I look up the definition of hulking it does say: "(of a person or object) large, heavy, or clumsy.", so, okay, he's slow and clumsy. not what I think when I read 'hulking'. (Incredible HULK - NOT short!) Anyways ...

Immune to fire? Yeah ... Dolok's ...?!? ... very confused ... very upset ... very scared!!! Crossbow you say? Yeah ... + 2 to hit, 1d 8 dam ... yay. I guess I need to re-check what those bolts we found were ... At least I have my magic missiles! Yay!

Now on that immune to fire note, shouldn't that mean it's vulnerable to cold? It is my understanding that if you are immune to one energy, then you are vulnerable to the opposing energy type? I don't see anything in the entry about that?

On the soul chain, I have to say that other than attacking 'independently of its master' 1 per round, I see nothing to indicate the chain as having its own mode of perception or movement. But the whole having to make a will save against it if you try to claim it ... does make me wonder ... so, I don't know to be honest.

And Dolok can basically do no damage to the chain. :(

I'm beginning to think Dolok is simply going to act as rearguard, try to watch to make sure nothing sneaks up behind the party. Thinking to himself, "And be VERY READY to run away! Sorry kids! True Neutral here!"

More on the chain; if we are going with it having 30 links as in the description:
1. By the RAW it has to have a + 1 before you can add any enhancement = + 1
2. Flaming = + 1 bonus
3. enhancement bonus equal to +1 per 10 soul links = + 3
4. Telepathic? + 1
5. Blindsense? + 1
So we are looking at a weapon that is a MINIMUM OF A + 5 MAGIC WEAPON AND POTENTIALLY + 7 ?!?!?! While we are barely third level and have ... ? maybe 1 or 2 + 1 weapons? AND, I'm not clear, is it the chain that has the soul bind ability, or the 'dwarf'? That would increase the chain's bonus by something of a + 3 or 4 or so, since a 7th level spell is a + 2 while Soul Bind is a 9th level spell!?!?!?!?! - Sorry, but WHAT THE F _ _ K?!?!?!

Either I am reading/understanding something incorrectly here or this is WAY overpowered for us! AND it definitely sounds like - IF we can survive this, we should gain another level, AND be quite a bit richer!

At this point, I'm more inclined to taking our chances with the known ambush in the rigged elevator! We can work to prep on that knowing that it's rigged!

Okay, that's my little rant and rave that's been building since this bit all started. :)


Wandering back to the discussion of the chain --

The entry reads that the chain provides a +2 armor bonus to the FS for every 10 links in it. This is a 30-link-er. The direct parallel is chainmail. Just how big are these links? I don't need a micrometer reading, but animated medium armor that attacks to 10 feet and burns on its own??? . . . . I'm not sure if this guy is gonna come out to meet us looking like a Borg sphere with a red mohawk and boots . . . .

We are the Chorg. Your spiritual and emotional distinctiveness will be added to our chain. Resistance is futile.


Illiam Taal wrote:
Syrus Terrigan wrote:
I'd even be willing to *play* one of these!
Well, you might have the chance.

I know, right??

Muhuwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!
_______________
Can you think of a cheaper "phylactery"?


You people worry too much, and plot and scheme too much more. I've decided, for all the best reasons, the chain is not intelligent, nor can it act on it's own, independent of the attacking as a free action at the owner's bequest. So, stubborn nail it up, if that is the way you decide to go. :)


Dude. That wasn't worry -- that was hype. For my part, anyway. :)

If the chain *could* act all on its own, that could do a great deal to make the fight much tougher, but this foe, even in the strictest interpretations, is going to be a powerhouse.

I cannot indicate just how thrilled I am with it in a sufficient manner.

Evil it up, man. That fight's happening, regardless. :D

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Ok, here's another question. If it's smoky enough in the tunnel to block vision and make it difficult terrain, I assume that also means it's more than smoky enough to prevent the scent ability from being useful? Nobody's actually made a knowledge check yet to see if the hellhound has this ability, but we've dealt with enough canines at this point to assume that it's likely.

I'm thinking before Illiam starts sneaking in, he might want to send an animal from the bag of tricks ahead to draw out the hellhound, or at least make it reveal its location without also alerting the FS to our presence.


And, to be clear:

I don't think this is an overpowered encounter for us -- far from it. Tough, but very winnable. At its easiest, we curbstomp the FS with our action economy after eliminating the hellhound, and skedaddle, leaving the forge, chain, and bellows behind. Gives us several hours to finish what we need and get the kids out.

Fifty-some-odd hit points with fast healing 5 translates to . . . ummm . . . something in the neighborhood of 10 rounds of combat if only Kairon and Goruck are thumping on him, with average rolls. Way too long, considering how hard he hits, but even low damage output on him from the rest of the party seriously taxes that fast healing . . . . And that's if we don't buff up a bit, *or* get even the slightest result from Illiam's plan . . . .

Dolok, your ray of frost is still just that, right? You can opt *into* the fire damage as you choose, right?

Very manageable, I think.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Since we know that sundering the chain will kill him (not to mention the fact that it's the only way to do it permanently, plus the matter of releasing the souls), I think fighting the old fashioned way is a losing strategy, and if it comes to that, Goruck and maybe Kairon should be concentrating on trying to sunder the chain. Everyone who isn't trying to sunder the chain should be trying to hinder his ability to do damage while we attempt that, and of course his ability to keep his chain from being sundered. One good DC20 combat maneuver check will end the combat. Goruck has a +5 STR, +2 BAB, and a couple of +1 weapons appropriate for sundering, so he would need to roll a 13 or better, giving him roughly a 1/3 chance each attempt.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
Syrus Terrigan wrote:

other stuff ...

Dolok, your ray of frost is still just that, right? You can opt *into* the fire damage as you choose, right?...

Yes, it is a ray of frost, that deals 1d3 damage. Yeah. That's gonna hurt him. :| At least it is unlimited use.

Now, I do have that enlarge person which I'm thinking could be very useful on one of the fighters here. Or for that matter I could even use it on both Goruck and Kairon! Just, the more I use that, the less magic missiles I'll have. And now that we are 3rd level at least my magic missiles will do 2d4 + 2 damage. But if I use two enlarge persons and a mage armor, then that only leaves me 3 magic missiles.

Mended? I don't see any response to my diplomacy check to get more info on this level? And you didn't say anything to my inquiry about cold vulnerability?

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Enlarge person would give them a +1 to combat maneuvers, including sundering, and another +1 from the strength increase (increasing the chances of a successful sunder to 50%). It would also increase damage dice, but from the way the text is written, it looks like a successful sunder combat maneuver will kill it, and you don't actually need to do enough damage to destroy the chain or even give it the broken condition (though you do probably have to beat its hardness). Mended?

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Btw, while it wouldn't work in this case because he's undead, you might consider using enlarge person against unwilling targets. They get a fortitude save, but it looks like the lower level has some areas that a medium creature might have to squeeze through, and a large creature wouldn't be able to get through at all. Could be a big tactical advantage, and would allow you to plink away at something with that 1d3 ray of frost until it's dead. Of course, we're not likely to come up against any medium humanoids, since kobolds are small creatures...


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

OK, caught up with stuff.

On the current situation I have a few observations.

1 I share the view that Kerrdremak is not fully trustworthy. He wants us to kill off the existing leadership of the tribe. Probably so he can take over. And rid the Kobolds of various problems, Forge Spurned, Hellhound, Gargoyle and Dire Bat. We go and take care of all of his problems and take all the risks.

Chillel did say IC that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. She did not say you should trust them at all.

2 The Gargoyle and Dire Bat seem to be in a place we don't have to go through in order to complete our rescue. Unfortunately Lone Dead Dwarf and Cub are not. I suggest we leave the Gargoyle and Dire Bat at least for now.

3 Chillel can put the Hellhound, Gargoyle and Dire Bat to sleep for 3 rounds if they fail a save. Hopefully that means they won't get up. Won't work on undead. I have ray of frost and other spells that will.

4 As Illiam says I can already put things to sleep. The 2 other casters can fight over the wand.

5 Something that has not been noted is this is the Truescale Tribe. If you look at the size of the images of Gurtlekrep and Kerrdremak, which are true to scale, they are about 6 inches tall. This means they will be much harder to detect but likely have far fewer HPs than normal sized kobolds.

6 I am pretty sure we untied Gurtlekrep.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

1. Where is this ambushed/boobytrapped elevator that Kerrdremak referred to? And how is it booby trapped to sense the patience of two humans? =

Kerrdremak wrote:
the mechanism has been booby-trapped to fail as soon as enough wait, that of at least two humans, rests on it.

;)

2. And what room is the Incredible Hulk and his doggy in?
From what I can tell NONE OF THE ABOVE has been marked on either map.

3. Chillel, based on this

Kerrdremak wrote:
"I will not lie to you, if you can kill the Forge Spurned it would be a great boon to the Truescale. As would the death of the gargoyle and dire bat that live just below his crevasse, here where I've marked the number 23." He points to the first chamber of his map of the kobold warrens, the chamber where, if you successfully kill the Forge Spurned, you would drop down to continue your mission.

then we do have to kill the gargoyle and bat. I just don't have the connection above where the FS and hellhound b$~#+ are. Though by what the kobold said they seem to be north and east of us?

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
Dolok Pickering wrote:
Kerrdremak wrote:
the mechanism has been booby-trapped to fail as soon as enough wait, that of at least two humans, rests on it.

Your thee last won eye wood eggs-pecked two sea teas thee gee-'em four knot Taiping thee write homophone [sick] :P


Hope everybody had a good weekend! Looking forward to Mended's next post.

Ready when y'all are.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet
Syrus Terrigan wrote:

Hope everybody had a good weekend! Looking forward to Mended's next post.

Ready when y'all are.

Dido again!


Hello all!!! Sorry for the extended absence there, had a busy holiday weekend, and just never really had a good chance to get in front of a computer hooked up to the internet. Thankfully I think the only questions I need to answer in here are Dolok's about in-game diplomacy (which, actually I'll answer with my next in game post--so watch for that; I'll also open up those portions on the Battle Grid for ease of understanding), and Illiam's.

Illiam, as to the chain, there a lot of rules that apply, separately for some, but perhaps in conjunction depending on the proposed course of action. If the plan is to Sunder the chain, until it has zero hit points, then we're talking about making attacks against the chain specifically. Which will provoke attacks of opportunity if done within the FS's threatened range, presumably even from the soul chain itself?! Since it is, sort of(?), an animated object. Speaking of which. The rules for damaging objects bring up quite a few more rules that need to be applied to the situation. As you mentioned, obviously hardness. The chain has hardness 8, meaning the first 8 damage of every hit is subtracted from total damage. Another thing to think about is, since the chain does have some kind of animation, the CMD to grapple it, which would have to be successfully done before trying to break it. Is the CMD of the chain the CMD of the master? Or should the CMD be figured separately because it's an object? Essentially trying to break the chain with strength means grabbing a hold of it, I'm guessing mid-combat, and using sheer brute strength to break one of the links in two, rendering it useless. This means you are trying to grab a chain that's being wielded as a weapon, and, for all intents and purposes, has the dancing weapon ability. Does it have it's own CMD? Or do we use the CMD of the Forge Spurned. Add into that the fact that grappling the soul chain exposes the grappler to the chain's flames, meaning, while they are grappling it, they are taking 1d6 points of fire damage per round. That in addition to an AoO, and a regular attack from the FS, might just drop somebody, even somebody like Goruck, in a double quick hurry.

So, just a few more things to think about there.

Oh! Yes, Chillel you did untie Gurtlkrep, sorry about the mistake there. Also thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake on the wait/weight. I always love when people point out the one mistake I made inside a wall of text that took me a good half hour to type up...

O.o <.<
>.>

Now, for some in game business... :)


As I revealed the elevator room and the caverns to the Forge Spurned's lair on the map, I realized I forgot to answer Illiam's question about the smoke. It's interesting because the module talks about the child who was taken (which spoiler alert it is none other than the Hollow's favorite son, Jurin Kreed...) being overcome by the smoke (falling unconscious), but it also never says that the smoke causes suffocation through long exposure... Meaning, the only thing the module says the smoke does, mechanically, is provide concealment in the hallways, and "total cover" in the presence of the Forge Spurned, and also multiply movement x2 due to decreased visibility. At no point does the module say the smoke alters a PC's ability to breathe... Must be some kind of weird magical smoke that only affects NPCs... :P

So, to answer the initial question, does the smoke block the scent ability? The answer is, I have no idea. I'm going to rule that it does NOT block the scent ability, because it is apparently some sort of smoke that only blocks vision and doesn't do a whole lot else, unless your the current McGuffin. :P


I tried to make two separate posts concerning the mechanics of "sundering vs breaking", and the Interwebs ate them both. Curse your vile creation, Al Gore, Jr.!!

In terms of the die rolls, breaking it would be easier than sundering (beat a 20 once, as opposed to beating a 20 multiple times and then having to get past 8 hardness and 25 HP beyond that), but getting to the point that one could break the chain would be just as taxing as Mended described above.

GM Terrigan's perspective:
To my way of thinking, being able to attempt a break calls for a greater amount of vulnerability for both the breaker and the breakee. Goruck would need both hands on the chain to try it at all, alone; with Illiam's stubborn nail in the mix, he could try it one-handed, perhaps (a point of leverage to use against it). Getting any grip on that chain at all, though, would be difficult -- either initiating a grapple, or readying a Strength check to grab it upon being attacked by the chain. And with all the negative consequences those two would respectively entail.

The thing that perplexes me, though, concerns the chain's listed break DC. I think the number should be as low as it is listed for the sake of keeping the encounter at a CR 5, but when you look at (IIRC) Table 7-14 in the CRB, a normal chain's break DC is 26. For a forge spurned's chain to have a break DC nearly 25% lower confuses me. Sure, we should expect a bit of a "give and take" element here, what with it functioning as a +3 flaming spiked chain, but . . . I just don't think I'd have taken from that.


I wondered about that too, but my imagination of it is that the chain is forged of a mixture of metal and the weakness of humanoid souls. Sort of a soul-metal alloy if you will, and, therefore, the metal has the weakness of the spirits that were consumed. Probably a bunch of weak-willed kobolds in this particular chain. Nothing against kobolds mind you, they just aren't the most strong-willed creatures in Golarion. :D

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.

Might not have been clear, but with the question about weaknesses, I was trying to ask in-character about which saves are best to target for each of the kobolds. A weak-willed character would have a low will save, one who is slow to react would have a low reflex save, etc. Of course, if someone has, for example, DR/bludgeoning, that would be good to know as well.


Let's not take all the surprise out of it! lol


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Mended, sorry for my pointing out the wait vrs. weight. You know I don't mean to put you down at all! I just found the situation so comedical (I'm pretty sure that's not a real word, but you get my meaning!) that I couldn't resist, but it was not meant to poke fun at you! I was laughing at the situation! Please don't be offended!


Dolok Pickering wrote:
Mended, sorry for my pointing out the wait vrs. weight. You know I don't mean to put you down at all! I just found the situation so comedical (I'm pretty sure that's not a real word, but you get my meaning!) that I couldn't resist, but it was not meant to poke fun at you! I was laughing at the situation! Please don't be offended!

No offense taken Dolok, I was kidding with my reaction. I learned long ago that I'm a man of frequent mistakes, if I got offended every time someone pointed one out, I'd be a belligerent terrible person. :) I laughed too. I think we got into another one of those situations where humor didn't transpose well in text. :) :) :D All is good.

Are you all waiting for me to post some kind of reply to Kairon and Goruck's subtle intimation that Kerrdremak should be doing more than he's doing? I was waiting to see if any other PCs wanted to chime in there before Kerrdremak reacted, but he's certainly intelligent enough to pick up on what's being dropped. ;)


Illiam Taal wrote:
Might not have been clear, but with the question about weaknesses, I was trying to ask in-character about which saves are best to target for each of the kobolds. A weak-willed character would have a low will save, one who is slow to react would have a low reflex save, etc. Of course, if someone has, for example, DR/bludgeoning, that would be good to know as well.

Okay, Illiam, that kind of information is waaaaaaayyyyyy too meta-gamey for me to comment on in-character. I thought I was pretty generous already with spell favorites and pointing out the properties of their magical weapons in as non-meta-gamey a way as I could... So, you've gotten everything out of Kerrdremak in that regard as you're going to get. :)


MendedWall12 wrote:
I was waiting to see if any other PCs wanted to chime in there before Kerrdremak reacted, but he's certainly intelligent enough to pick up on what's being dropped. ;)

So long as we can all smell what's being stepped in, I'm good with it. lol

But I do encourage the rest of the party to post any thoughts they have on Kairon's leading questions. :D


Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

A recent encounter where my character performed well,
or,
Why summoning is an excellent strategy.

This was part of Jade Regent, where our 10th level party was attempting to clear out a stronghold of evil spirits in a high, relatively thin tower.

Dramatis Personae, party

Susano-O Level 10 half elf Master summoner, my character

Hikari Level 10 human Magus, Marks character

Erika- Level 10 human Wizard, once a PC

Amieko NPC Bard, pivotal to adventure path

Spivey a tiny flying creature with clerical levels, NPC

Kelda NPC Barbarian

Bad guys

A- some kind of spider kami + level 12 sorcerer

4 Gossamers- again spider like kami with decent casting levels

4 Shadows, each folowing a Gossamer as a class feature.

The party enters a new, higher level of the tower from below. The bad guys are all one level above that. With them a Dire Lion with the Aerial Template and a large Earth Elemental summoned by Susano-O. The party moves cautiously forward. We know there is something hostile ahead, not exactly what or where.

Susano O conjures 4 Lions with the Aerial Template upstairs that go after what turns out to be shadow conjurations. They then start searching for invisible creatures with there scent.

The creatures find us as the 4 Gossamers appear from invisibility and hit Kelda, Hikari, Erika and Susano-O with a web bolt each, enhanced by true strike so they all hit. A very nasty ambush. The boss A employs a spell that knocks the earth elemental off what it is climbing up and it falls though the floor. And the floor below that. Erika hits a Gossamer with magic missile and Hikari strikes another. Kelda riding a dire lion wades in as does her steed. A group of conjured lions tries to attack A but is stopped by a force cage. Susano-O usesher Staff of Journeys to free herself.

The gossamers retaliate and the 4 shadows appear, all attacking Hikari. Strength drain kills Hikari outright in the first attack. In the next round further damage is dealt on both sides. The Shadows mass attack Kelda this time. The strength damage does not kill her, but a second attack like that will. Kelda sensibly uses a magic item to teleport away to a random location.

The situation is now desperate. The party's 2 front line combatants are dead or have had to flee. There is a Wizard entangled 15 feet from numerous enemies who will be dead very soon if not rescued.

Susano-O has the 4 lions charge the Gossamers and the Dire Lion attack them too. Susano-O, who can fly [aspect class feature] flys over to Erika and dimension doors them to just below the entrance to this level, a safe disatance away. Erika then casts a fireball on the Shadows. The good thing about alive wizards is they can cast spells. This she repeats the next round, after Susano_O has cast Greater Invisibility on her to protect her from retaliation. And we remember to use the Ectoplasmic Rod this time, all the shadows are now nearly a zero HP. Spivey and Amieko also retreat below. They mostly buff and heal all combat.

Spells rain on the combatants in the middle level from above and below. It all ends with only 2 lions standing, both nearly dead. Susano-O has dimension doored up a level now and peeks out and glitterdusts the force cage, making A visible. At this point the GM calls the combat. A is visible, nearly out of spells and will not flee the tower. Susano-O was going to smother him with summoned creatures, she has 7 summon monsters left and 3 should be plenty. We stop to eat the meal of Potugese chicken, Aglioni, peas, corn and salted caramel cheesecake I have prepared.

Summoned creatures substituted for the front line combatants that had been eliminated from the combat early, did a lot of damage and, vitally, took a lot of hits and spells that would otherwise have fallen on party members. Summoned creatures gave the party the numbers to outlast the opposition.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
MendedWall12 wrote:
Illiam Taal wrote:
Might not have been clear, but with the question about weaknesses, I was trying to ask in-character about which saves are best to target for each of the kobolds. A weak-willed character would have a low will save, one who is slow to react would have a low reflex save, etc. Of course, if someone has, for example, DR/bludgeoning, that would be good to know as well.
Okay, Illiam, that kind of information is waaaaaaayyyyyy too meta-gamey for me to comment on in-character. I thought I was pretty generous already with spell favorites and pointing out the properties of their magical weapons in as non-meta-gamey a way as I could... So, you've gotten everything out of Kerrdremak in that regard as you're going to get. :)

I honestly didn't think it was meta-gamey at all. Illiam is exactly the kind of character that would divide his spells into categories of spells that target the mind, ones that can be avoided with quick reflexes, and ones that are most effective against the weak and sickly, and evaluate an enemy to try to figure out which category of spells will be most effective.

He does this in combat already, though he usually doesn't have much information to go on, and getting descriptions from someone who knows them ahead of time is a rare opportunity. Asking for actual numbers would definitely be meta-gamey, but asking a character who knows them well in which of these aspects they would be most vulnerable seems perfectly reasonable to me.

This is the same kind of information you try to get with a knowledge check about generic creatures. Technically, I think the rules would allow me to try to get this information by rolling knowledge: local checks on each individual, but it seemed absurd that Illiam would have any specific knowledge about these individuals ahead of time, so I was trying to get the information in a less meta-gamey way.


Okay, well, we're going to have to, at this point anyway, agree to disagree. I guess part of this argument entails the given player's idea(s) about how much do casters know about the operation of magic in Golarion. Have they witnessed/studied enough of magic to know that every spell tends to affect the target in one of three categorical weaknesses: mind, agility (or lack thereof), and robust physical health? I suppose there would absolutely be wizards of high level that have written books on the subject, and, perhaps, it is even common knowledge among casters that every spell targets one of three specific kinds of human frailty. From a gamist perspective, I'd be inclined to acknowledge that, but, as a GM that loves a narrative, I find it entirely too off-putting to talk about a character in terms of their highest Saving Throw... So, I won't. :)

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
MendedWall12 wrote:
Okay, well, we're going to have to, at this point anyway, agree to disagree. I guess part of this argument entails the given player's idea(s) about how much do casters know about the operation of magic in Golarion. Have they witnessed/studied enough of magic to know that every spell tends to affect the target in one of three categorical weaknesses: mind, agility (or lack thereof), and robust physical health? I suppose there would absolutely be wizards of high level that have written books on the subject, and, perhaps, it is even common knowledge among casters that every spell targets one of three specific kinds of human frailty. From a gamist perspective, I'd be inclined to acknowledge that, but, as a GM that loves a narrative, I find it entirely too off-putting to talk about a character in terms of their highest Saving Throw... So, I won't. :)

I thought it seemed more like the kind of thing that any spellcaster, intelligent ones like Illiam in particular, would notice by the second time they used any particular spell. I mean, if somebody dodges the effects of a spell, it's not a big inductive leap to figure out that that spell would be more effective against targets with less ability to dodge things.

So, yeah, agree to disagree, I guess.

The Exchange

Male CN Halfling Wizard (Conjuration: teleportation) 3 | Character sheet | Character Journal | HP: 18/18 | AC: 18 (14 Tch, 15 Fl) | CMB: -2, CMD: 11 | F: +1, R: +4, W: +3 | Init: +3 | Perc: +5, SM: +0 | Speed 20ft | shift 5ft 6/7, adaptable luck 2/3 | Spells: 1st 4/4, 2nd 3/3 | Active conditions: Mage Armor.
MendedWall12 wrote:
Are you all waiting for me to post some kind of reply to Kairon and Goruck's subtle intimation that Kerrdremak should be doing more than he's doing? I was waiting to see if any other PCs wanted to chime in there before Kerrdremak reacted, but he's certainly intelligent enough to pick up on what's being dropped. ;)

Btw, Dolok, Chillel and I have all now posted in discussion at least once without adding anything in gameplay, so I think it's safe to assume that none of us intend to intervene before Kerrdremak can reply.


Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

Well, there is a part of me that wants to say something about this whole Kairon and Kerrdremak thing ... but the problem is I don't what to say ...


Maybe you could express that confusion aloud . . . . It could prompt Dolok's "real" response, perhaps.

Not a *necessary* thing to do, but maybe a good exercise for ya.

Regardless -- no pressure from me!


I like the tempest there, Stormstrider! :)

I do hope the roll doesn't bite us.

And:

Nicely done, Mr. Cameron!

I'll hold off on doing anything till we get Kerrdremak's response. Overtly, anyway.


Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

Hey Mr Mended Wall - We discussed earlier my not taking Glitterdust as a level 2 spell as the party got that spell in a spellbook. I have taken Aggressive Thundercloud in it's stead. I know Glitterdust will not be available until we can make a scroll of it and get it into my familiar.

I trust this is OK with you.


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Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

You guys do realise we are not dealing with normal Kobolds don't you.

This is the Truescale tribe. And if you look at the size of their images on the screen, the ones that are true to scale, the Kobolds are around 5 inches tall.

I would think this means they will be stealthier than most Kobolds, but much weaker physically.


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Male Human TN Sorcerer (Efreeti blooded) Lev. 3 | Init: + 3 | Perc: + 2, SM: + 0 | DEFENSE | AC 15, touch 11, flatfooted 14, (+1 armor, +1 Dex, ) | HP: 27/27 (1d6 + 2 + 1 FC) | F: +3, R: +2, W: +3 | OFFENSE Speed 30ft | Melee Quarterstaff +1 (1d6+0/X2) or dagger +1 | 2 if thrown, (1d4+0/19-20) Ranged Light Crossbow +2 (1d8+0/19-20) Fire Ray +2 (1d6+1/2lev) | Fire Rays 7/7 | Spells: 1st 4/6 | Active conditions: Mage Armor. Character sheet

I shall squish them under my boots! ;)


I forgot to fave it the first time you mentioned it, Joynt. Shame on me.

Nice zinger!


Female CN Human [Andoran] Winter Witch | HP: 24/24 | AC: 15 (15 Tch, 14 Fl) | CMB: 0, CMD: 11/10 |FL F: +2, R: +2, W: +3 | Init: +7 | Perc: +2, SM: +0 | Speed 30ft | Hexes Slumber - DC:15, Misfortune DC 15 | Spells: lvl0- 4 1st 3 2nd 2| Active conditions: None.

Posted the same thing twice. Didn't realise that.

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