Yeah, I'm just not feeling the Warforged. Think I'm gonna scrap Torv and come up with a new idea.
Ba'ad and Dorna are far too old to have any new children (being over 200 each) but they have a middle-aged daughter named Melira, who is a wizard and a Pathfinder. You could be her child if you wanted, but you'd have to be pretty young.
And yeah, advanced firearms are available for purchase for their full prices.
Full price is too expensive for how much gold we got. The question was if we could craft them for half (or any reduction to make them affordable) as listed in the gunsmithing feat so I could get one right away.
Bah, that messes with my idea... Is Melira their only child, if not who else are there?
What is the relationship between dwarves and the duergar?
Right. All I'm saying is that early guns are less expensive but if you want advances guns you have to pay a lot for them.
Yes, they only have one child. What do you mean by "somebody else"? What kind of people are you looking for?
The duergar are typically resentful of regular dwarves, seeing them as light-skinned and soft versions of themselves. However, the settlement's leaders have made peace treaties with tribes of both dwarves and duergar worldwide.
I think we are talking past each other. The gunsmithing feat states:
Crafting Firearms: You can craft any early firearm for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft advanced firearms for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm’s price (minimum 1 day).
So far I haven't seen confirmation on if you will allow the bolded part. If you did post it I missed or misunderstood it and I'm sorry.
Will a shotgun's scatter work with maneuvers?
My idea was to be a rebellious younger child who kinda broke off from tradition and responsibility to be awesome in his own way. Though without running away from direct responsibilities as a heir. If Melira is their only child, is she the heir to the throne then, or is the rule not hereditary? It won't quite work out as I had imagined, which means I'll have to adapt things.
Oh sorry. Yes, if you want to craft your own advanced firearms, go ahead. Is that what you were looking for?
Dorna is the leader of her own tribe, but she's not the leader of all of the dwarves. There's no one leader. Melira is, however, the heir to the leadership of her mother's tribe. She is also a Pathfinder Venture-Captain.
BTW, I'm guessing Firearms are still uncommon, and not common, right?
The Gun Tank?
Eh... I don't like giving up the Gunslinger feats...
@Fury of the Tempest: Advanced guns solves your reload problems.
... That is true... and I can start with Gunsmithing quite easily...
Honestly, I'm angry you came up with the idea of using a shot-gun first, as that would work amazing well with the character I was thinking off, but oh well.
Dot... Thinking about a female dwarf oracle. Or possibly witch. (Or I could just split the difference and be a shaman.)
Would I be able to replace my crossbow hand with a firearm? I know it says I have to buy it at first level, but is there anything restricting me here?
Would I be able to replace my crossbow hand with a firearm? I know it says I have to buy it at first level, but is there anything restricting me here?
Proficiency. Even when guns are commonplace, they're still martial weapons. Alchemists are not proficient with martial weapons. You also can't buy it. You can only have your own, whether you make it through Gunsmithing or whether you have a "you get a gun!" class feature.
Dot.
Thinking Dwarf Ranger.
Ah yes, but when I have a weapon as my hand I have proficiency with it, if I already have proficiency then I get weapon focus but only with my arm not with any I may pick up :) Integrated Weapon: One of the warforged's hands is replaced by a weapon, which cannot be disarmed or sundered. He is automatically proficient with this weapon; if he was already proficient then he gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat for weapons of this type, but only gains its benefits while wielding that specific weapon...
But since I don't get a gun as my class, could I get a repeating crossbow instead?
Edit:and for requiring two hand to reload it, I imagine one is to hold the crossbow the other is to load the clip.
I'd also like to know about any gods that may apply to warforged... just to pick a god to add on to the total philosophy of my character
So which of the above rulings for scatter weapons are you going with? Or would you allow the even more generous ruling, that it applies to everyone the shot hits? The latter makes the most sense to me, but I understand that they might want to nerf it. They become as powerful as casters if they are allowed to hit everyone.
Sorry for all the questions, but apparently firearms in pathfinder aren't very well ironed out within the rules.
@Fury of the Tempest: Just make whatever you want. If you want to make a shotgun user then do that. I might still go back to rifle as it synergizes better with the crit aspect of stalker (especially if the most conservative ruling is chosen). Looks like there'll be a lot of gun wielders submitted anyway, and there are only three different guns to chose from.
Gherz, yes you could get a repeating crossbow. If you want it to be masterwork, you gotta pay for it. Otherwise, it's mundane by default.
Also, Gherz... We're using the Pathfinder base setting. The regular gods. I suppose the most obvious god is Torag (being a dwarven diety with protection in his portfolio) but... Warforged can worship whatever they want.
Oyzar, I think I'm going to go with the middle-of-the-road ruling. One target per scatter blast is affected by a maneuver.
Yeah, seems we'll be having a lot of firearm users huh.
Hmmmm... I want to go for a Zweihander Sentinel Warder (nothing says I can't use a two-handed rifle as the shield their talking about), but I don't have anyway to get Solar Wind. If Path of War Expanded isn't out, the Unorthodox Training Trait isn't allowed, and the Acolytes of the Arrow Martial Tradition, is... well. Arrow Based.
well the thing with gods is that I am not familiar with them at all, for pathfinder at least, i am very familiar with the D&D gods :/
I rarely play a Divine class like cleric because of this. playing one usually requires me going off and finding information on the gods...
i was thinking a god of machines/engineering, but i might just not have a god, seeing that i am a machine and stuff.
Edit, also for any new applicants. I am the only Major Healer, save for a druid. I however am built for healing!
Veiled Moon could work as a sniper...
After consideration I rather want to make a stalker than a shotgun user. I think I'll go with a rifle after all. Too many things don't work very well a shotgun(low bab, precision damage, crit focus, no way to recover from misfire). Since rapid reload reduces the reload time to a free action, I can just go with a regular rifle rather than a pepperbox one.
The double barreled shotgun does seem extra awesome for this campaign with the flat bonus to all the extra hits. Maybe I'll pick one up down the line to use in specific situations...
@Burnscar, Fury of the Tempest: Are you guys going for shotgun or rifle?
Are there really no one going for casters?
I wanna go for the Shotgun. If I'm going Zweihander Sentinel Warder, I want to be close-ranged instead of long-ranged. Have to admit, the idea of using a Double-Barrled Shotgun to hit someone with a 4d8 attack plus Maneuver damage is pretty appealing, even if it is -4 attack.
GM, are duergar characters 'dwarf enough' for your liking? In my own estimation I consider them to be different ethnicities of the same lineage, but your interpretations of that trope may differ vastly from mine.
The implications being that I really want to be in this campaign and also help set the premise you envision.
This is an awesome idea. I think a Spellslinger dwarf fits quite well. Are we talking modern rifles or musket equivalents/revolvers?
It's almost like spending time finding setting information specific to your character makes them more well-rounded.
@Torgar, yeah, Duergar are definitely dwarven enough for me. They are, in fact, dwarves. Just deep dwarves.
Also, the stat array that you have in your profile looks like it's only a 22-point buy. 10 points to Str, 5 to Dex, 5 to Con, -1 to Int, 7 to Wis (using that 4th-level bump) and -4 to Cha.
10 + 5 + 5 - 1 + 7 - 4 = 22
This is an awesome idea. I think a Spellslinger dwarf fits quite well. Are we talking modern rifles or musket equivalents/revolvers?
I think the "advanced firearms" listed in Pathfinder's rules (Which are available, though are rare and expensive) are basically the types of rifles that were getting used in WW2. They have little clips that you feed in through the top, and they're lever-action.
Although the actual rifle only has a capacity of 1, the pepperbox rifle is basically a revolver-rifle.
I have not yet calculated in the 4th level bump. That may be the variable at hand.
It's almost like spending time finding setting information specific to your character makes them more well-rounded.
oh, thanks i was unaware of this cite, this will help a ton!
I think I'll worship Grundinnar.
Gonna leave a dot here, if only to see how this plays out. Might contribute my own submission if something comes to me.
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I guess I'll pop in with a roster, but it seems like mostly I'm waiting for the latest interest to churn out characters... not that you should be in a hurry or anything.
Gherz - warforged scout alchemist (chiurgeon) 4
Torgar the Grotesque - duergar druid (saurian shaman) 4
Dargrin Sweetbreath - dwarf aerokineticist 4
And then there's a bunch of interest, people who keep changing their minds as they work out what they want their builds to look like... As you guys are making your characters though, I want you all to make sure these questions are answered in some way:
1. Where are you from? Preferably this would be a specific place in Golarion... if you're a warforged, it's likely going to be "inside the ship"... But an important consideration for warforged is "how old are you"? You could have been made before the journey, being older than most warforged, or you could have been made potentially only weeks before the campaign's beginning, a last wave of constructions before landing on the new planet.
2. Why do you want to go into space? Leaving behind your entire planet, potentially forever, is a big commitment... what drives you to do this?
3. What qualification, accomplishment or connection do you have that allows you to come? Why should whomever screened the candidates say yes to your entrance?
4. During the actual space-travel part of the voyage, what was your job? You can't just sit around and wait, because your only skill isn't useful for the travel.
5. I'd also like some basic info about your character - a physical description, an explanation of their personality and what their own alignment means to them... you know, descriptive stuff so I know what they're like.
6. It's not required, but I'd like some kind of.. you know, backstory. Some explanation of what their life has been like up to this point.
I had it set up where Gherz is 50 years old, i could always flush it out more in game... say how long has the ship been in space?
Maybe a decade? The oldest warforged should be around 15 years old.
Ah, okay I'll ajust. I was thinking after the launch but before the game starts... so I'm going for the middle, 5 years.
Is it cool if I answer these questions in one cohesive backstory narrative? I can do either format you want. I'll work on crunch and honing in on his setting-specific details in the meanwhile.
I'll work on a more in depth backstory... should be done today or tomorrow.
Oh yeah feel free to answer the questions in whichever format you want.
Thank you. For health, was it explained if we were going max or half or rolled orr...
EDIT: I'm not going to have Torgar completely finished by tonight, regrettably. I'm just far too exhausted. He'll come around soon. I'm still working on him presently, I just do NOT have the mental fortitude to wade through all the Numerics and Nuances (PF's truename IMO) and craft his sheet. Most of the mechanical decisions have been made, and most of the story-based decisions are also present-but-raw. I'd say about 80% holistically finished, I just need to buff him off where the detail work needs to be done.
I also am TERRIBLE at dealing with anything regarding equipment. I might need help with that, mainly understanding how all the weird druid equipments coordinate with your house rules.
Thanks for understanding all the points above, and I'll have Torgar in tow as soon as life allows.
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For hp, take the PFS standard. Max hp at level 1, plus 1/2+1 on the dice roll for each level thereafter.
I found a way to make shotguns work with Stalker, by going with the Judge archtype. A judge of Abdar going to colonize another planet is just as fitting as someone from the church being sent to colonize the riverlands (as detailed in the Kingmaker player's guide). Abdar also fits wonderfully with dwarves and their natural greed. Colonize, then monetize, gotta expand the First Vault somehow. The Trade domain works wonderfully with that idea and also allows to teleport around the battlefield to set up some nice cones.
I'm a bit sad I can't be a member of the Scarlet Sentinels as he'll have an awesome sense motive score. I just don't see a sworn bodyguard fitting with someone from the church of Abdar (unless a high priest is somehow the party). Being bound as a royal bodyguard would be too stifling. I can't be sworn to protect the church of Abdar and their ideals right? That would be fitting with this idea.
A question about the double barreled shot gun. Is firing both slugs at the same target considered one shot (like rapid shot) or two (like cluster shot)? I could see either working. Applying double of the inherent strength bonus and deadly aim seems a bit much, though doubling up due to rapid shot does as well.
Going to drop out due to lack of time for another game, sorry.
Name: Thak Val Zsing
Class: Soulknife (Gifted Blade)
Alignment: LN
Backstory: Like his father, his father's father and the father before that father, Thak has served faithfully as a personal guard for his great clan's leaders in the Sky Citadel of Highhelm. Under his father's tutelage, he learned the ways of summoning a blade made entirely of will, and defended his lord in years following against assassin and in several honor-bouts used to settle disputes of law and property. Unlike any dwarf in his family before him however, Thak contains within himself a single wish; to go into space, to see the heavens above firsthand. When his lord declared for Ba'Ad Harzadoum, he saw his chance and took it, volunteering for the voyage of the ages.
Personality: After years of service as a guard, Thak finds himself significantly out of his depth dealing with crafters and artists, alien creatures and environments. Much to his surprise and consternation however however, he is frankly tickled pink by how much he's enjoying all of it
Description: Bald head, no eyebrows, brown eyes, no beard, short for a dwarf, scar over left side of face and missing ear, heavy chain-mail with a tabard of the Highhelm crest.
Sheet: To come after you give your comments on this concept.
I'm envisaging Thak as the 'normal' member of the group; one with a fairly basic backstory and who's quite overcome with the strangeness of everything, but one who's quite enthusiastic about experiencing more of it.
1.) Why were you picked by whatever organization you represent to go on this mission? What amazing and clever accomplishment or innovation have you done? Alternately, if you haven't done anything truly worthy of note, why do you get to go?
Thak has proven himself loyal, and a battle-hardened fighter, and one enthusiastic about the mission. Not a standout fighter or scholar, but someone you'd definitely like to have a few of when venturing into the unknown.
3.) Come up with a short-term (something you like to accomplish daily), a medium-term (something you'd like to accomplish in a year) and a long-term (something you'd like to accomplish by your death) goal for your character.
Short; encounter something or someone new and alien, and learn about it/them.
Medium; acquire a set of space-armor. Either made of an alien material or using some alien mechanism or magic.
Long; start a family and have a few children, and see them safe in a new Sky Citadel.
A question about the double barreled shot gun. Is firing both slugs at the same target considered one shot (like rapid shot) or two (like cluster shot)? I could see either working. Applying double of the inherent strength bonus and deadly aim seems a bit much, though doubling up due to rapid shot does as well.
I like the concept! I'm excited to see it realized.
As for shooting both barrels... you actually can't use Deadly Aim with guns (as long as you're shooting for touch attacks). If you're shooting past your first range increment, you take that -2 penalty, a -4 penalty to each shot for shooting both barrels and another -2 penalty for Deadly Aim... so I'm not sure that the damage payoff is particularly overwhelming given the risks of that many penalties.
I guess you only take that -4 penalty when you're shooting bullets, but you take a -2 penalty for scatter shots and you can't use precision damage or damage-increasing feats with scatter shots. So... it'd be 4d8+10 damage, which is a lot of damage... EDIT: Wait! It only increases the damage when you shoot with bullets!
I feel like this should be nerfed in some way, but I'm unsure of the best way.
EDIT: Oh god, you can use Deadly Aim with advanced firearms. Can we just put that away? I'm fairly comfortable with 1d8+5 twice in a 20ft. cone... and I'm fairly comfortable with the big damage bonus that you get when shooting against regular AC and shooting two bullets.
Name: Thak Val Zsing
Class: Soulknife (Gifted Blade)
I like the concept! I hope you're aware that dwarves without beards are a definite anomaly... The first thing a dwarf would think would be that you're crazy or traumatized or poorly socialized or something. Not that I'm going to stop you from having no beard. I do like the concept and the story, though. Seems appropriate.
I have a priest of Torag/craftsdwarf/architect from a defunct game that may be able to fit into this easily. Amusingly it was also a settlement game, but not an entire planet. Will have to evaluate the situation later.
In any case, thanks for running an exquistely dwarfy game. There needs to be more of these!
Yeah the firearm rules are kinda wonky. Both deadly aim and rapid shot are called out to have different effects in their rules than in the description of the text (Rapid shot reduces advanced firearm reloading to a free action). Deadly Aim actually works with early firearms as well, it has the same note as advanced firearms.
Feel free to come up with any nerfs you want. I was under the impression you wanted to boost firearms since you gave them such a boost in your houserules, but I guess that didn't factor in double barreled weapons.
You didn't actually answer my question directly. Is a double barreled weapon attack with both barrels considered one or two attacks? That is do you roll one dice to attack or two? Your mention of 4d8+10 seem to indicate it is considered two attacks. If it's considered one attack instead it would be 4d8+5 and deadly aim would only apply once. Does rapid shot give you an extra slug (2d8) or two (4d8)? Next level I'm probably going to pick up Solar Reflection that bounces your attack to another enemy, would that bounce one or both bullets? I kinda wish it was all considered one attack so I could use murderous insight with greater reliability to avoid misfires.
I'm glad you like my concept. Not quite where I thought I would end up when I started thinking about this character, but I think it will fit quite well for this campaign.
A shotgun scatter is actually a 30 foot cone, not 20 (it's just firing bullets that is 20 ft), another oddity.
A double-barreled weapon attack is two separate attacks. Rapid Shot gives one extra slug. Solar Reflection will bounce only one bullet, and obviously you can only do it when firing bullets. I think my only nerf that I need to make is that you can't use Deadly Aim with your guns (if you want to shoot for touch).
That is an oddity. Gun rules are weird.
@Galorit: Cool! There's not a lot of divine casters around, so I'm happy to see another application.