To honor Painlord's approach to character creation I'll put Kraygan's backstory in a spoiler.
I'm thinking Kraygan is a cousin to Torgan and Jorgan. Though his family is also part of the brewing business (his father is Jorgan and Torgan's brother and runs a brewery elsewhere), Kraygan made a poor brewer and a terrible merchant. Instead, he spent his youth drinking and fighting. Eventually, to keep him out of trouble (and the family stores of ale) he was sent to join the dwarven army. With experience in handling yaks, the one thing he wasn't awful at, he trained as a cavalry soldier and spent a few years riding patrols along the borders of giant-infested lands.
Eventually, Kraygan returned home and decided to become a part of the family business. Unfortunately, after a disagreement with his father about missing ale stores, Kraygan was sent to work as a stable manager for Torgan and Jorgan in Trunau. What this means is that when he's not yelling at stupid yaks, he's sleeping off a bender in the stable.
How does this sound to you guys?
I like it!
Torgan is a particularly gruff dwarf with little care for the namby-pambies from the cities who love their lagers and spritzers. He's all about the high ABV beers and drinkin' em when he can. He let's Jorgan do most of the talking while is always looking for new objects or trade goods that he can use to brew better beer. (It's why he took the Artifact Hunter trait).
His trademark tool is his pair of dwarven maulaxes. They are useful for hammering in taps and chopping up wood chips and the like for proper barrel-aging. He carries a larger waraxe for protection as these are dangerous parts and he is not very kind towards giants and orcs (half-orcs exceptin' [as long as they like his beer]).
Great introduction! GM and players both!
|
Notes:
1) Torgan: +1 for knowing what a geuze is. +1 again for offering sour beer. I can only assume that you live in a region with an active microbrew scene or in Belguim. Which is it? ;)
2) Apologies as my profile will be coming on slowly. Still working on the character and fitting things together. It'll get there but won't stop the RP.
3) Last night's epiphany: So...as you Wren is Core plus (CRB, Orcs & Elves of Golarion, ISWG), by choice, and just because. However, I realized last night a hidden and happy perk: treasures and loots are going to matter to him a bit more. The little things we might find, that never occurred to him before, like a Snapleaf or a, uh, I dunno, alchemical ghost salt blanch, might be a pretty keen find.
It's a viewpoint as an AP PbP player that I hadn't considered before...most of my APs have been pretty open access to everything.
@Painlord/Wren: Currently in Bloomington, IN. Some breweries in the area are getting more involved in the sour/fruit beer market which is a boon for me. I love most sour beers, but Belgian's have been my favorite. I have spent significant time in Europe and been to plenty of the breweries out there after my indoctrination into beer culture in 2010. I am considering going to the Brett Carnivale in Amsterdam this June. Have to see if I can finagle the finances for it.
Honestly, I attribute my beer love to my two roommates from my time in England. We still meet up 3-4 times a year as a group to brew and drink. In fact, one of them is coming down from Chicago this weekend and we are going to brew something funky. The other is usually in Milwaukee, however he is currently doing his Ph.D. at CEU in Budapest, so he can't make it.
P.S. - We are going to drink the Boon Oude Geuze Mariage Parfait from 2009 and the Boon Oude Kriek Mariage Parfait from 2011 that I have been holding on to. I may also have a Spontannoble from Mikkeller and Hottenroth from The Bruery for more soury goodness.
@Painlord et al: And in case you don't know, I also lived in Bloomington, IN and played lots of PFS with Bold Strider back in the day (ok, like a year ago). But now I'm up in Madison working on my PhD in genetics.
I know nothing about beers though, lol, so I'm trusting BS on that part. I think I've had beer maybe twice in the past year. I don't mind it but it's just not really my thing. *looks over shoulder* no one here in Wisconsin heard me say that, did they?
Come on now, we know your up in Madison breeding some superyeast for BS to brew with!
Come on now, we know your up in Madison breeding some superyeast for BS to brew with!
I actually do know (and almost worked for) someone who studies brewing and baking yeast evolution....
But alas, I chose to create mutant monster corn instead.
So my Jade Regent (which includes Tek) almost TPK'd. Two of the PCs died and the other two narrowly escaped with the bodies. There was some blaming about questionable actions being thrown around and some woe-be-us-ing about the party composition, so I had to give them a quick pep talk. I thought you guys might find it interesting:
Honestly when I saw our party composition at the beginning of the campaign I told EF we would probably TPK at this exact point, lol.Ha! Yes, I feared a tpk myself, but I don't know the campaign. I just know we're poorly balanced.I was actually just having a very similar discussion in another campaign Jennix and I are playing in....
Honestly, I think that party composition and balance have much less to do with success than preparedness, tactics, and coordination. And luck, of course. You guys have had some bad luck along the way, to be fair.
I don't think it's right to blame any one person for mistakes in that last fight and I did not feel that anyone was acting suicidal. There was a lot working against you but it could have gone otherwise except for a lot of ifs. If the party had an adamantine weapon, if the party had healed Jennix up right away so he could control the platform and stop the wind/get up to Katiyana, if you had a means to dispel her freedom of movement or other way to get her out of the sky, etc. And if you had run away earlier Miso might not have need to die.
I don't think any of those things depend on the balance or composition of the party, nor on the build choices of any one PC, and especially not on the actions of any one PC. I think you guys are hard on yourselves because you've been struggling through this AP, well, a lot.
But from my vantage-point as the GM, your troubles haven't come so much from the makeup of the party but from preparedness, communication, and coordination. When you guys work together and your tactics are solid, you wipe through some difficult encounters pretty quickly. But in that last fight everyone was pretty much doing their own thing without really having a plan about how to deal with the lightning-wielding wind-protected flying enemy.
To be fair, I have seen a lot worse. You guys are on the good part of the spectrum but this is a tough AP so good is not going to be enough; you'll need to be exceptional to make it all the way through. I'm just being honest. And you do work together quite often, just not enough. At least that's my assessment. For example: I'm currently in a Shattered Star group where some (mostly one) of the players are very selfish and don't work as a team. I am absolutely expecting that to bite us in the ass at some point in the future, despite all I'm doing to prevent it. I just don't want to see that happen to you guys.
I honestly think your characters, built as they are, could make it through that fight. All it will take is a little preparation and coordination.
Good luck!
*The situation I was referring to in Shattered Star involved the wizard refusing to use party funds on consumables, even if they arguably benefit everyone (oils of daylight, oils of bless weapon, cold iron and silver daggers for everyone, etc). He insisted that he had to have an Int of 22 by 4th level and so needed to save every gp to afford a headband by then and didn't want to 'waste' money on consumables or unnecessary items.
Myself and another player were really put off by that. We at least talked him down and explained that demanding a 22 Int by 4th level was unreasonable, especially because it would come at the expense of the rest of the party, but the group still doesn't always play as a team. It's not the most fun group to play in to be honest.
|
|
Oh yeah...the Indiana connection! And beer! Of course!
1) You guys know my friend Mark Garringer then, eh?
2) I still remember my first geuze. Delicious...I came home and began to research the heck of out them. Tried lambics, but they aren't nearly as good.
3) Sour beer is the next 'thing' here in the Bay Area. Right now we are still swimming in IPAs (hate them, personally) and sour beers are on the rise.
4) Will any of you yahoos be at PaizoCon this year?
5) Bold Strider, it seems that you lead a very interesting life.
Ayep. That's a good example. Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes you have the exact right yahoo to beat the encounter. Sometimes you don't.
Tangential Untested Painlord Theory: PF Skilltesters
This theory was derived from when I used to play a bit of Magic the Gathering. There were certain cards that were defined as skill testers...i.e. they were cards that seemed good but were actually pretty bad in competitive play (no, PF doesn't usually have competitive play, but that's not the point here).
And when a new set came out, you could evaluate MtG 'talent' by how well they evaluated cards and their utility.
For me, Pathfinder has concepts that are skill testers: those that show how well a player will play the game when they sit at the table with you.
One of those concepts is wanting/needing a 'balanced' party. They might think, on the average, that a balanced party will be more successful than an unbalanced party. Of course, there is never any proof of this. Nor will there be. But just that they might argue it shows that they are either a newer player or one that has permanently bought into the default way of thinking without any critical thought that might ever challenge it.
In truth, like EF says above, it's more about play skill and working together than balance. That's the skill test right there.
Another skill tester is how people feel about the rogue. If a player is saying that 'rogues suck' or 'I'd never play a rogue', what they are really saying is: "I lack the skill to play a rogue effectively and cooperatively to contribute and have a fun game."
Me, and probably most of you, could happily play a rogue and do just fine, have a great time, and not even break a sweat.
Anyone else have any more skill testers?
Edit: One more skill tester: when someone introduces their character by class and level rather than with a roleplaying description.
Edit #2: I wrote this 4 years ago. I'm old...but it's still on topic.
Edit: added some backstory and description to Wren's alias.
1) You guys know my friend Mark Garringer then, eh?
4) Will any of you yahoos be at PaizoCon this year?
5) Bold Strider, it seems that you lead a very interesting life.
1) I've only met him in person once but he plays in my Shattered Star game via PbP, which has been going for almost two years now (we're 2/3 of the way through book 4 now).
4) Too far for me but I usually make it to GenCon. Only 45 minutes from Bloomington. A bit farther now that I'm in Madison.5) Yes, yes he does. He left out the part where he was living in Japan for a while.
Re: spoiler: I absolutely agree about your comments about the rogue. The same also applies to the monk I think. It's one of the reasons why the announcement about the Core Campaign made me say, Oh, I definitely want to make a core-only monk (and a halfling at that) just to prove that it can be done, that it can be effective, and that it can fun.
Good man! IPAs are the worst.
1) I have no idea who Mark Garringer is, but I'm sure EF is more in tune with the local PF crowd.
2) I actually hated my first geuze. Of course, my friend started me off with Oude Boon Geuze instead of easing me in, but since then I have developed a passion for them.
3) I'd love to see more United States sours. Bruery puts out brilliant beers, but I can't 1) get them reliably and 2) pay $15-$20 for a bomber all the time.
4) Haven't ever been to a Convention: Paizo, gaming or otherwise. Might go to GenCon this year, but I might also be in Cambridge.
5) I've been told that, but I honestly just try to be open to new things and people seem to respond to that. I went to Japan on a company's dime because I hadn't found what I wanted in a summer legal internship and decided to stay in Bloomington. Two weeks into summer break I get a call that I am needed in Tokyo and it was paid for.
---
I'm taking this out of spoilers because I think everyone here is interested in our conversations, thus the spoiler is unnecessary.
I agree whole-heartedly with the unbalanced idea. I have never* sat down at a table and thought that I would TPK. I still have never TPKed. I have also had parties with some of the most talented PFSers that have failed, though this might be because EF and Bramnik played dumb. (*cough* Hinojai *cough*)
*This excludes the VERY first game I played with my level 1 Zen Archer, my friend's level 1 witch and a father and his two sons who all three played Int/Cha heavy Lore Oracles with flavor spells and negative Dex/Str and crossbows.
I do disagree about the rogue, however. I was talking with EF about this the other day as I am trying to make a Core Rogue. The Core Rogue is completely terrible in design. One good save, 3/4 BAB and this new thing* in Talents.
1) There are exactly four good talents and I don't mean power-gamer good. I mean better than nothing. These are Combat Trick (Take a feat), Weapon Training (Take a feat), Finesse Rogue (Take a feat), and Resilience (Don't die once a day). The other five options are awful. Rogue Crawl - You can move while prone; it provokes. Stand Up - You can stand up as a free action; it provokes
2) Rogues have come away from this terrible start with immense profit. Ninjas are the masters of Sneak Attack and everything a core rogue can want for combat efficiency. Scouts give reliable SA with all the classic Brute ideology. Archetypes and expansion of Talents has helped the Rogue become a powerhouse on par with every other martial, imo.
3) Is it easy to role play a Rogue? Sure. Was the original iteration of Rogues pretty bad? Definitely. Am I still going to rock the s$++ out of it in Core? You betcha. That being said, I will admit that Core Rogue is pretty bad balance-wise to the current iteration.
1)I'm in the same PbP and also met Mark at GenCon last year. I also live in Indiana. Grew up in Indy, but live in southern IN at the moment.
2) I had really hoped to make it to PaizoCon this year, but alas, I won't make it. Having lived in Seattle for three years, I really want to make it back out there. (For the record, I live vicariously through your PaizoCon blog every year, Pain. It always makes sad I'm not there.)
1) We still haven't met, Tek!
2) You have a blog?!
1) We still haven't met, Tek!
I know! I need to get up to B-town sometime, soon. Actually, I'll be up there tomorrow for the basketball game (wife's company tickets), but we're just running up for dinner and the game with her sister and husband.
2) You have a blog?!
Technically it's a thread on the boards.
|
|
2) You have a blog?!Technically it's a thread on the boards.
Yeah, it's not really a blog as so much as a badgering of those yahoos who attend Paizocon that sucker ask politely to contribute to their experiences at PaizoCon.
Probably not worth reading now unless you were going to attend, but I do manage to drink myself silly for 3 days straight while gaming all the while.
If any of all y'all can come this year, please do.
Where are you going to dinner? My dad and uncle (among other relatives) are coming down and getting Nick's before the Oaken Bucket. I will not be attending the game, but I will be playing Sink the Biz and getting crazy drunk.
|
|
Where are you going to dinner? My dad and uncle (among other relatives) are coming down and getting Nick's before the Oaken Bucket. I will not be attending the game, but I will be playing Sink the Biz and getting crazy drunk.
What is this in reference to? PaizoCon or GenCon?
/me confuzzles.
Ugh I wish I was close enough to go to either convention. Iowa being dab smack in the middle of nowhere. I might try to make Gen con next year. I was going to try to make it this year but the baby will be born about 3 weeks-ish before so shouldn't ditch the wife.
Yeah. Wife > New Baby > GenCon. Oy.
Oaken Bucket is the football rivalry between Purdue Univ. and Indiana Univ. I use it to describe any IU/PU rivalry as most don't have names. Tomorrow there is the annual IU versus Purdue basketball game, which is a big deal to IU and Purdue alums/students.
It has nothing to do with GenCon or PaizoCon.
I'm not sure where we are eating. I think she mentioned Zagrebs or the Lion. I just go where I'm told, as I have no real interest in the game, but my wife is an alumna and always gets tickets at least once a season.
Yeah, baby, I know how that is.....
You'd never live that one down. Having three of my own, I don't think I'd have the energy for GenCon with a 3 weeks new baby. Ugh, sleep deprivation....
Wow. Zagreb's and Irish Lion are nice. Phenomenal food. If you want to party and get down with pizza, strombolis, fries and cheap beer, then you can find me at Nick's!
(Seriously, if you wanna meet, then I will buy the first round.)
Man, I'd love to, but I doubt we'll have time tomorrow. We'll have to leave right after the game. Hour and twenty drive back to Jasper.
I don't mind tossing the spoilers away.
Although I don't think these were meant so much for me, I'll chime in.
1) Don't know him. Haven't met anyone here in real life.
2) My knowledge of beer is very limited.
3) I prefer dark or amber, but drink maybe 1 a month.
4) I would very much like to make it to GenCon one of these years, but the only Con I ever make it to now is Strategicon in Los Angeles (which is 3 different events throughout the year - Orccon, Gamex, and Gateway). However, I only manage to make it to one of the events a year, usually only for a half-day. On a side-note, my circle of friends decided to organize a private "convention" of sorts last month instead of going to Orccon. We booked 2 hotel rooms for 2 nights on a weekend and gamed like madmen.
5) Bold Strider is cool.
@Unbalanced:
Testers are an interesting idea, but I think they are a symptom of something else, specifically the desire to "win" the game. Personally, I think that if you have enjoyed the game you are succeeding. If you fail, but talk about it years later, I think you've succeeded too.
@Regarding Rogues:
I think the game has evolved faster than the rogue class. Up until 3.5, they were king of skills and being sneaky. Now it is too easy for other classes to mimic their abilities (more so with the expanded guides). That said, I don't think they are irrelevant, and a good player of one can offer a lot to a party.
@Pep Talk:
One of the tabletop games I'm in could use one of these talks. Even with a balanced party, we have one player who tends to make very bad decisions, justified as roleplaying, that screw the party and take away from the fun of the game.
|
|
Wren sees how many dwarves he can throw under a bus at once.
* * *
@Torgan: Oh yeah...an Oaken Bucket. I should have known that. It's not a glorious and mighty axe so it's not really worth fighting for. Not that any self-respecting dwarf would quarrel over a bucket...but an axe... ;)
* * *
Interesting thoughts on the rogue, btw. I still think it's a skilltester. You can acknowledge there are better options, but to outright think it's unplayable and awful is a test of skill and confidence. A local VL went straight rogue all the way through Eyes of the Ten. They can be played, they can be successful, they can work just fine.
Anyhoot, I only ask because you might be standing next to an elf rogue right now!! ::shock::
Wren sees how many dwarves he can throw under a bus at once.
It'll probably be a short bus.
..you might be standing next to an elf rogue right now!!
I hope so, because I don't think the Steelkeg's are all that sleuthy.
Whereiswas everyone?
Class.
C'mon dwarvies.
Coming!
Driving three hours to Indy for a kids doc. appt. Now in the process of driving the 2.5-3 hrs back home.
Sweet! How many scenarios did you GM? Or is that from playing?
|
I just played. each game you played you got a token to turn in at the Venture Captain to roll a d20. He has a list of items and boons you could get ranging anywhere from boons to a free inner sea world guide or Advanced class guide, novels and player companions. I was able to get 2 games and last year's Gen con special in with the wife for 6 rolls.
Congrats! That's quite a haul!
Busy couple of days for me in the lab. I'm following along and reading the posts but haven't had time to craft a quality post and keep up with my other games. Jorgan is off searching the room still.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
[dice=Sense Motive] 1d20+1
On a side note, what the piddlespot is this, Torgan!? You have a freakin' positive modifier on a socialish skill, Torgan?
Your munchkin powergaming is making me feel useless. If I wanted to play with broken characters, I would be playing gestalt.
/me ragequits
IKR?
How can I be so good in combat AND have all the social skills? It's sheer lunacy to give rangers this much power.
Apologies for the absence. Sickness overtook me and left me incapacitated for a while.
I can see this game is moving along. I'm at a maize conference through Sunday so my posting will be slow. Please bit me as needed and I'll check in when I get a chance.