Freedom Reign

Game Master Wivvy

So many fun choices. I think I settle on one and then I find another...

Ivknow what you mean, druid/monk rogue/fighter inquisitor/gunslinger... All are calling to me.

Or waitnfor it.... Fighter/barbarian!

Monk18/Cleric18 I kept it simple, also She is not walking around with an whole Army of constructs, Fill-millers, mounts etc. What you see is what you get with Rosa.

Now she is all but done, few items left, a small Demi plane and spells, but she is there, Back story in place as posted. I made her now so she can fit any group, her core is combat healer, front like fighter, diplomat, she can also, teleport, planshift, Gate to party to places like other planes. I think now she is a real asset to any group, She is not just support.

I am now going to look at what other have built to see the fun they are having.

PS
Your going to love the way she opens a trapped and locked door.
One Ring of Telekinesis 75,000gp + one Adamantine Encased steel Icosahedron [ball] 225lb 5500gp And you have Rosa with a massive D20 that she uses on doors like that, it even has odd runes on each face. hehe

I'd rather just unlock it.

Disable Device Anzir: 1d20 + 29 + 1d6 + 4 ⇒ (11) + 29 + (3) + 4 = 47

Being able to roll 1d6+4 forInspiration for free on all sorts of skills is rad. When I hit 20 I'll be able to do 1d6+5 for free on every Skill and Ability check in the game.

BUT ITS A BIG D20!! come on you have to love that idea, :)

O ye sorry meant to add she can do that 860ft away, while flying over head, where as you my skilled little chum, have to be next to the door. Or with in as we say the BOOM! range of the second trap, hehe

...and it's the second mouse that gets the cheese...

But on the other hand, where exactly do you keep that metric crapload of giant metal novelty door knocker?

I'd see the first trap, second trap, and every subsequent trap coming, don't you worry. =)

Between Trap Spotter and a Take 10 Perception of 43 (plus 1d6+4) I've got it covered.

I'd see the first trap, second trap, and every subsequent trap coming, don't you worry. =)

Between Trap Spotter and a Take 10 Perception of 43 (plus 1d6+4) I've got it covered.

GM you taking note, NO trap this Pc cant fine

hehe

You DO realize that there is a spell called Acute Senses and as a potion, the lvl 16 alchemist can make it permenant?
Did that with a crazy goblin once >.>
At lvl 18, 50+ perception is very possible, and not that difficult.

So since i am struggling to figure out what to turn my Claptrap into, i am defaulting to the Burning Intelilegence for now.
And i realize that rynjin is building an alchemist/investigator
I am building a goblin alchemist/investigator or gunslinger or bard
Rigor Rictus is building a goblin alchemist/gunslinger
:s
Whats your thoughts on character overlap while i figure this out?

You DO realize that there is a spell called Acute Senses and as a potion, the lvl 16 alchemist can make it permenant?

Did that with a crazy goblin once >.>
At lvl 18, 50+ perception is very possible, and not that difficult.

Not difficult at all, yeah. I have 20 Wis (from my +6 Headband), max ranks, and the Half-Elf's free Skill Focus, and thassit. If I'd gone whole hog on Eyes of the Eagle and some other stuff, it could get crazy. But trap Perception DCs cap out at 34 by RAW, so it'd take a MASSIVE DC boost on the part of the GM to challenge most high level PCs. The main thing there is I can't be caught off guard by them by forgetting to say I'm searching.

My 13th level Nosferatu Inquisitor already trumps this handily, unbuffed (+47 bonus).

I plan to make something like Displacement permanent rather than a slight Perception booster, however.

Actually I forgot to factor in Trapfinding's +9 there, so that'd be 52 on a Take 10.

So since i am struggling to figure out what to turn my Claptrap into, i am defaulting to the Burning Intelilegence for now.

And i realize that rynjin is building an alchemist/investigator
I am building a goblin alchemist/investigator or gunslinger or bard
Rigor Rictus is building a goblin alchemist/gunslinger
:s
Whats your thoughts on character overlap while i figure this out?

Skill overlap is unavoidable. I currently have all the Monster Knowledges, Disable Device, Stealth, Diplomacy, and a smattering of other skills.

Combat overlap is likely to be a non-issue. I'm focusing on using a Rapier for melee, and Bombs for ranged if it's necessary.

Rictus(?) is making a "One big hit" Alchemist with guns and a Bomb, and you are doing something I can't recall. Probably not a problem.

There's also the sad fact that not everyone is going to be chosen, most likely.

In think we have like two paladins as well in the making, Them saves just need to be had. Wil to Saves is a real boon for that class.
I think my PC is safe in the fact she can if the GM lets, bring you back from the dead. I was in another game where a group of 20s levels where in a temple (me as well) and got hit by a swarm of MAGA Dragons + Anti magic field, and on going planer banishment. My PC could get out because it could just fly real fast and got past the locking doors. Two of us made it from that death trap. The rest all had to be reasserted V my PC, O the XP cost was mean I tell ya.

A great game system called HeroWars had a good way to deal with high skills. Every +20 become what was called a mastery, so +47 would be
7-2Mastery or 7w2

You could only try some thing if you had more Mastery then it.

A 7w3 lock would auto beat a 7w2 Lock pick skill, But others could aid, adding to your Skill level and so bust you to that w3 you needed.
Ever Mastery other had in lock pick could add +1 to your count to beat the lock. It meant that even with overlap where all the PCs had high lock pick skills IT was useful to have them so one player could with help beat a lock beyond their skill even with a d20 added. GMs then would place challenges just beyond the skill of a single player but not beyond the skill level of the group as a hole. It really dos encourage team play and cooperation's even with a group of skill monkeys.

I think i need to redo my idea i mean why rogue... who needs them. Pathfinder eliminated the need for the class.

And good riddance.

Though by Gestalting with certain classes, you can be a real meat grinder.

Take Scout Rogue.

Combine with Beast Totem Barbarian.

Pounce for delicious full attack, plus full Sneak Attack damage on each hit.

I personally think that pathfinder should have made something like any trap or lock above a certain dc is impossible without trapfinding ability

No matter what the bonus you have is and then up the rogue bunus to add your full level to the skill check

Also all magic traps can only be disabled by the same ability

Well. As mentioned my idea is a full bab plus a huge/gargantuan companion and a summoner eidolon as a caster as support

Just trying to add to conversation :P

I don't like the idea of only one class being able to do something so simple. No other class in the game has such a specialized skill for such a basic thing, not even magic is limited to one class.

That's what skills are for, representing what you're, well, skilled at.

Class abilities should ENHANCE your base abilities, not be something you require to use them in the first place.

I think I'm going to go Sorcerer/White Mage for my build. Though if it looks like more martials than mages apply, I'd consider Brown-Fur Transmuter to share some buffs. Mostly, I think I'd like a supporting mage for the most part.

Also, seeing this is a gestalt game, I'd be remiss if I didn't share this with anyone who was entertaining the notion of bloodrager.

well as it is now, all other classes can eliminate traps better that the rogue even with trapfinding.

also as far as other class thing you mean like the weapon specialization feat train? limited to fighters only.

also as it is now trapfinding is the first thing to dump with almost every rogue archetype...why...because even Paizo thinks it is an unneeded ability.

Weapon Specialization doesn't lock out any actions. It's +2 damage, not exactly game changing.

And Trapfinding IS mostly unneeded...however I don't think that's why most Rogue archetypes trade it. It's probably because Rogues only have 3 class features. There's not much to trade.

Actually weapon training+gloves of dueling is what makes a fighter deadly at high levels (though really you need to factor in weapon specialization, greater specialization, focus, greater focus, and weapon training to really get the scale of it). When built to take advantage of all their tricks, a high level fighter has +8 to hit and +10 damage over most others (yes, other classes can take focus and greater focus, but I find it to be rare since they usually don't have the feats to spare). +8/+10 is whole lot better for offense than Mighty Rage (which translates into +4/+4, though it can be more with 2 handed weapons of course).

The real key to Barbarians trumping fighters is the rage powers. Those are so good, that it doesn't take much for someone to make a barbarian exceed a maximized fighter. I've got a 17th level fighter from PFS that I'm still playing. He's quite dangerous in his own right, but I have dragged out every trick in the book to keep him competitive. I've pumped the AC and saves as hard as I can, while still keeping up the damage pretty well. Even for all that the party Barbarian/Bard with minimal optimization is possibly more effective, and I almost doubt I could take him in a straight up fight. If I made a barbarian to the same level of optimization, I could curb stomp my fighter.

With Witch Hunter and a Courageous weapon (equivalent "Feat" and magic item cost as Weapon Focus/Greater and Wepaon Spec/Greater, plus Gloves of Dueling), Barbarian comes out to +7/+19 for to-hit and damage at 20th.

At 20th the Fighter wins on damage due to his capstone (+1 crit multiplier and auto-confirming raises DPR by hundreds), but pre-20th the Barbarian wins flat out.

So all things being equal, the Barbarian is better for 99% of the game.

ok quick question.. I may be doing it right but I'll check, how does prestige classes work with gestalt?

for example fighter/rogue even though the prestige class is primarily fighter can I level the prestige class on the rogue side?

Yeah. You can trade out any one of your classes for the PrC.

The Gestalt rules preclude classes like Mystic Theurge, however.

I've dropped my original idea and decided to go with a different idea. I'm looking at going with a master of the sky slyph druid/monk. While he is not helpless in melee combat, he definitely prefer using his Wushu Darts while darting around, and above, the field with his aerial companion.

Wivvy, do you mind if we reflavor abilities, equipment, and the like?

Witch hunter is target specific. If you happen to be fighting a non spell caster, that doesn't help you much. As is the case with fighters in general, they are equally good in all cases, without duration limits. In specific circumstances, and in limited durations, other classes will often exceed them (smite, favored enemy, etc). As I mentioned, a good CAGM build will bury a fighter when it comes to DPR in actual practice. You just have to be able to live through it.

Must admit I'd never heard of that courageous weapon trick. That's neat. Just a bit bitter than furious at high levels.

Witch hunter is target specific. If you happen to be fighting a non spell caster, that doesn't help you much.

At low levels, yes, but I challenge you to find a Bestiary creature who has ZERO SLAs, Spells, or Supernatural abilities (because remember, it works on all 3) past about CR 13, maybe even earlier.

It's hard. There's maybe one creature per CR that doesn't.

I'd call that more "situationally nonfunctional" rather than "situationally useful". It's on more often than Precision damage is, which is still pretty often.

Even if you're just fighting humans with class levels, unless they're a Fighter, a Rogue, or NPC classes, they have SOMETHING magic from a class feature.

Must admit I'd never heard of that courageous weapon trick. That's neat. Just a bit bitter than furious at high levels.

Best combined WITH Furious. With both you're still on track with the normal Enhancement you should have for the price, and you get an immediate +1 to your Morale bonuses.

Anywho, what character were you putting forward? I was thinking about changing my guy since we have a massive overabundance of Alchemists. Was thinking of playing something like a Bloodrager/Sorcerer (or Arcanist?) or some sort of super blaster caster. Something like Sorcerer (Crossblooded Orc/Draconic) 1/Admixture Wizard 18/Slayer and Arcane Trickster X could be badass.

Yeah. You can trade out any one of your classes for the PrC.

The Gestalt rules preclude classes like Mystic Theurge, however.

I asked the DM about prestige classes, because the gestalt rules never explicitly say that these classes are banned, just that they could cause problems, and he said that they were allowed, just so you know.

BRB rolling up a Wizard 10/Cleric 10/Mystic Theurge 10/Whatever second class I want

Gestalt tends to exclude classes that allow you to basically progress as two classes at once. This includes Mystic Theurge.

My character is a page or two back. He's a paladin/fighter chackram thrower tank. Not a very common build. He can front line with the best of them, but provokes out to 15' and has his first range increment at 30'. Ac is in the 50s' and saves are very high. Of course with lay on hands and mercies, he can also fix a lot of difficulties he might run into.

I just realized the Counterspell exploit from an arcanist doesn't work with Parry Spell. I was so hoping to have that work out. Probably would still take PS, but dang.

Could we have a 3.5 feat? Because if we can I'd like to use a character I used up to 4th level, that I could advance to this level,
He was a kensi/blade bonded magus/ weapon master monk, who had mad skills with a katana,

dotting with a bard | Paladin of Irori\oracle. Should have him posted within the next couple of days.

I shall henceforth be known as "Team Charisma".

Could we have a 3.5 feat? Because if we can I'd like to use a character I used up to 4th level, that I could advance to this level,

He was a kensi/blade bonded magus/ weapon master monk, who had mad skills with a katana,

NO 3pp so the GM said, I think he wants core only, I feel and I could be wrong here, that he will be considering core much more than 3.5 other 3pp builds. At 18th level it is every every easy for 3pp and 3.5 to brake a game bad, I have seen it often LF2

Lord Foul II wrote:

Could we have a 3.5 feat? Because if we can I'd like to use a character I used up to 4th level, that I could advance to this level,

He was a kensi/blade bonded magus/ weapon master monk, who had mad skills with a katana,

NO 3pp so the GM said, I think he wants core only, I feel and I could be wrong here, that he will be considering core much more than 3.5 other 3pp builds. At 18th level it is every every easy for 3pp and 3.5 to brake a game bad, I have seen it often LF2

You are not the GM I was asking the GM

Any Paizo for classes, races, and anything else. As a general rule, I say no third party, but feel free to run it by me unless it involves a completely different rule system such as Psionics. Also, no Synthesist summoners, and no Immortal Spark.

He said nothing about core only, in fact he said that everything paizo was approved other than synthesist summoner, most paizo products are not core.

Any Paizo for classes, races, and anything else. As a general rule, I say no third party, but feel free to run it by me unless it involves a completely different rule system such as Psionics. Also, no Synthesist summoners, and no Immortal Spark.

Sorry if that came over wrong, I think its all a misunderstanding, that post was my view on what the GM had posted, that only, Like I said

NO 3pp so the GM said, I think he wants core only, I feel and I could be wrong here, that he will be considering core much more than 3.5 other 3pp builds. At 18th level it is every every easy for 3pp and 3.5 to brake a game bad, I have seen it often LF2

Sorry if I came over wrong. I was never talking for the GM, that was my point of view only. I read the GMs starting post and when it said core Paizo I meant "published Paizo" as in all published Paizo, not 'core' as in races or classes. That Psionics and other 3pp ssytems like 3.5 fell under "other systems" with a default no from the GM. I was trying to help that is all, LF2 We have known each other a long time on here, and your right I'm not talking for the GM, sorry if it came over that way. I'm not saying "don't ask" I just wanted to show a post I thought you had missed. Look I am sorry if my post upset you, honest I was just trying to be helpful to you.

GM my intent was never to speak for you, I think this was just a mistake in communication. Me and LF2 are old mates on here so no worrys :)

Lots of conversation here without the GM's input. We need ya, Wivvy!

For my part, I;d like to see some decisions and some character development instead of people making the case that rogue and fighter are done for. There are other threads (that I shall never attend) for that.

The GM did say anything Paizo, but I think a few 3.5 feats or PrCs that have no Pathfinder analog are worth considering.

Just a bit of friendly back and forth while we spitball characters. I don't like locking in a personality until I know what my character IS.

Sure.

Pretty cut and dry for me. Haughty elven "protector of you mortal types" or glowering "I'm here to bring hell on earth" guy.

I'm thinking I want my character to be an ex-cook who stumbled upon a spellbook after getting fired from the restaurant he helped make famous.

Rosa is the living Echo of a dead god, who died in a pointless war, her aim is to stop conflict of bring about its end quickly.
She is at her core the party healer, and as such as great healing skills and magics. I am thinking of shifting her to NG at the moment as it fits a lot better with her faith and want to join the ranks of the The Empyreal lords. Witch is her epic aim.

Sorry guys I was unable to post for a while but I'm back now. I still have to sift through everything that I've missed, so give me a little time to get back with answers.

One thing that did stand out to me was the issue with overlap. With a party of six gestalts, overlap is almost impossible to avoid. What I am looking for is characters that look like they could make a great party together.

As far as CE goes, if you have the burning desire to play a CE character then I will tell you this: Allies will make you. If you go off alone killing anyone in your path, then you may find yourself very alone and very, very screwed. Still that could add a fun dynamic to the campaign as GM's almost never allow CE.

I'm still thinking. Bloodrager with the Mad Magic feat would make Flori really offensive.

Orc sorcerer, Bloodrager.

She's a little bit country. She's a little bit rock 'n roll.

She's Donny and Marie, and she knows it.

Any evil alignment requires depth and some maturity. Sometimes people play a CE person to cut loose, which leads to them treating the game like a video game. But good roleplayers can pull off an evil alignment in a mixed party.

You told me you liked Decthacion the best, so that's who I'm focused on.

Sorry guys I was unable to post for a while but I'm back now. I still have to sift through everything that I've missed, so give me a little time to get back with answers.

One thing that did stand out to me was the issue with overlap. With a party of six gestalts, overlap is almost impossible to avoid. What I am looking for is characters that look like they could make a great party together.

good to see you back GM, hope all is well. My PC Rosa is built GM and Alt is up, just some squeaking and checking, I think I may drop the ring of telekinesis, and shift her to NG because of her faith. But other than that spells and core PC are there, with back story.

No he gave examples of what "other systems" mean,
If he meant what you said he meant there would no third party that wasn't another system and therefor there would be nothing to ask about.
That said please allow the DM to answer instead of jumping on my posts and trying to present your way as the only way
Given your last post in your own recruitment thread it comes off as rather hypocritical.