Freedom Reign

Game Master Wivvy

UPDATED

====PCs Alts part built or done====
Lady Rosalyn Luminass GM Pandorica -> NG Monk18/Cleric18 built and done
Flori The Fabulous Dave Young 992. -> Slayer 18/Sorcerer 18 built and done
Graah! Rigor Rictus -> LN Male Goblin Alchemist 18 / Gunslinger (Pistolero) 16 / Monk (Monk of the Iron Mountain) 2 Alt built
Sazzat Tamm JoshB. -> 18th Rogue / 8th Ranger + 10th Horizon Walker. Alt built
Decthacion Alhasinin Steven T. Helt -> gestalt swashbuckler 18, magus (black blade) 18 Alt built

===Built and posted in Recruitment thread===]
Klor Kragsson Edward Sobel -> fighter (weapon master) 8/ stalwart defender 10 | rogue 16/ barbarian 2 - [PC done back story link also posted]
Team Charisma Vrog Skyreaver - bard | Paladin of Irori\oracle
Kawai fnord72 -> Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Evangelist 10//cleric 18

Back story posted in Recruitment thread, Will make crunch if picked
The Grey Spectre! Monkeygod -> Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)/Magus(Kensai) full 18
James Bonfire trawets71 -> Ranger/Bard [not 100% on this]

[Can't find this complete submission sorry]
Norathior Dragonflyer1243 ->
Dudley Benfare drbuzzard -> fighter18/paladin (oath of vengeance) 18/gestalt 18 ?

Other players who have shown interest

AceDiamond ->?
rorek55 -> Paladin 18/ fighter 18 ?
Lord Foul II -> Magus/Arcanus ?
meeko ->monk/Druid ?
Flori the Fabulous -> sorcerer, Bloodrager.?
Iron Vagabond DM ->True Nutral Necromancer?
grimdog73 ->slayer/sorcerer ?
Joshua Hirtz -> Huntsmaster (Inquisitor) 8 / Evangelist of Erastil 10 | Zen Archer (Monk) 18.

players who have dropped out

Seth86
Iron Killer
Rynjin

NOTE: I will add to this list and please point out to me any one missing or any mistakes. :)

I'm going to be a Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)/Magus(Kensai) full 18 levels in both, whip wielder(It's the sig weapon of MA, think Zorro basically).

Combat will be lots of movement, tripping and disarming, I might even go the Dimensional Agility tree route, since I have a LOT of feats, thanks to both Swash and Mag giving several bonus ones.

I enthusiastically endorse Monkeygod's cbharacter idea. I know we essentially have the same base classes, but I think it's be cool to see how different the two characters can be.

Thanks Steven!

Looking it over, I believe I have 15 feats in total(9 base, 3 from Swash[loosing one due archetype], 3 from Magus) so its very likely I will go the Dimensional Agility tree.

Me too, Monkeygod has a good reputation for making very interesting PCs, I have never known one of his PCs be dull and like me he has a high post rate, I think his may be higher in fact :P

Wivvy, I am curious if you'll allow this more cerebral, and quicker Sylph

+2 Int, +2 Cha

Native Outsider(Air)

Medium Size

Normal Speed

Standard Languages

Quick Reactions

Elemental Affinity(Air)

Fast

Total RP= 9, which is 3 more than the standard Sylph.

Me too, Monkeygod has a good reputation for making very interesting PCs, I have never known one of his PCs be dull and like me he has a high post rate, I think his may be higher in fact :P

I shall refrain from comment at this point in time on the subject

GM Pandorica wrote:

Me too, Monkeygod has a good reputation for making very interesting PCs, I have never known one of his PCs be dull and like me he has a high post rate, I think his may be higher in fact :P

I shall refrain from comment at this point in time on the subject

Ed, you realize this is, in fact, a comment, right?

Didn't know you had issues with me...

actually I don't have issues with you.

and yes I know that was a comment.

Pandorica, I mentioned that I'm putting together a sorcerer//arcanist. I didn't expect the deadline to be so soon, but I hope to finish up on gear and spells before the final bell.

I kinda dropped the deadline on everyone pretty quick, and I certainly don't want to lose any possible players this quick. So if real life gets in the way and anyone can't get it done by Tuesday then I'll be happy to postpone it a day or two. Anymore wouldn't b fair to the other.applicants though.

-Posted with Wayfinder

EDIT I see now on the wings... soooo. since crafting is OK can non-casters get extra money to equal out equipment? I would say if you are a non-caster gain an extra 350,000 gold since casters with item creation feats are getting tons at half price.

In that fain do we get a free feat for each crafting one we have taken, seems fair.

rosa: when I was calculating your equipment (at normal market value) I stopped at about 900,000 and still had more to go. using crafting skills is one thing it throws off the calcs by a few hundred at best. but using item creation feats we are looking at close to double what we have to work with.

Only add the number GM in brakes [xxxgp] at the top of each slot and area.

I was calculating on what it would cost me to buy not the cost for you to craft.

As for the free feat, why would you get that. Basicly you took a feat and doubled your wealth. Others could drop a feat for the same thing or just eliminate pre game magic item crafting

Also did you add the additional cost for multiple items in the same slot

Edward Sobel

Edward I asked the GM clearly of we could and he said yes, I am sorry Edward if you are unhappy with his ruling there is little I can do about it. PM the GM, all I asked and at a ruling.

If now you want that ruling changed than a lot of players will have to rethink and remake their PC builds from the ground up. With the deadline so close do you want to ask for that?

If you get what you are asking for of course we should have a free feat per crafting feat taken. The game designers made it so that crafting classes can craft as a counter for that class vs power of others. A lot of the magic items used are for magic classes so that can stand with fighter and other such classes at high levels. You want to give that away and not hand anything back.

Then what IF my pc dropped the crafting feat, we my PC get that extra cash you talked of? See its not that simple.

All I am saying is to seek change this late in the application my be more problematic then you may realise.

Finally Edward this is a Gestalt game, there is salubriously nothing stopping you taking a crafting class on one side of the Gestalt so you to can make thinks. Many others I feel will be making that call.

I hope you see my point of view on this. :)

As for
>Also did you add the additional cost for multiple items in the same slot

Yep cost added as per the +50% rule per item when crafting, So crafting cost +50% as per the +50 of cost rule. Also checked the cost per item and CL level as well. :o)

PS
Don't forget everyone GM added some house rules along with yes to crafting.

A: 2 extra skill points per level
B: 2 extra feat to start with
C: Max HP
D: 2 traits / 3 if a drawback taken.

How about we see who is picked and the do equipment.
If someone can craft then we all get it crafted.

Casters already blow away martial after level 10. There were several sacrifices I made on equipment due to money

>Casters already blow away martial after level 10.
Tell that to the Goblin Gun slinger that just put down a CR25 baddy with 500+ DMG in the 1st round. My PC dos not even come close to that.

>There were several sacrifices I made on equipment due to money
We all have, I am still paying full price for rings/rods and weapons, I would have loved a ring of Telekinesis but at 75,000gp the cost was to high. Why did I want it for my PC, because she can pull you out of harms way at 750' and heal you.

Edward all I know is I asked the GM and the GM said, crafting yes.
Others have as well, and so like them all I did was built my PC knowing I had a green light with that after I asked about it. Your PC as I said Edward is yours, your call on not being a Casters/crafter class on one side of your Gestalt. I really do not see why those who have should be penalized because you made a call on your PC. If your asking that every one now NOT get list their PCs magic items until after they are picked. Wow that is one big old ask there Edward. Looking at some of the PCs already made others have got stuff set up and listed. If you wish to hold off adding magic items to your PC until your PC is picked, that again is your call. As I have said all I did was apply crafting as per the GMs ruling. I hope you see my point of view here. :)

As said Goblin Gunslinger, I'd like to weigh in on that topic.

Now, I'm in the process of rebuilding and trying to diversify my abilities a bit, because it is more than clear that I got a little carried away when optimizing for nothing other than damage. That does have a tendency to result in a bit of a one trick pony... I'm doing a few things like trying to buff my Int score to get more Extracts, and gain the Infusion discovery to make them useful to the group, to be more of a team player, while dropping the confluence of damage exploits all simultaneously applied to one character.

All that being said, even as a non-caster, in a gestalt game, at 18th level, even I thought it would a major oversight not to have crafter feats on board, and got the ones I could via the Master Craftsman feat. The feats needed to perform your own crafting are an investment, and represent their own strategic importance to a character, and have been balanced against the concerns of the rest of the character. If you feel that you are left out not being able to get them, take the Master Craftsman feat, and invest in Craft Wondrous Object. About 3/4 of my magical gear expenses came from that category, and having those feats gave me the majority of the savings you mentioned, even as a non-caster.

Since it was asked, the reason my character sheet says Paladin 18/Figthter 18/ Gestalt 18 is an artifact of how the add on to Hero Lab does Gestalt characters. I could just as well edit that part out of the character sheet to make it more straightforward I suppose.

people are very contentious about this thread. a few thoughts:

when characters take crafting feats in game they don't get twice the magic items. character wealth by level remains the same from one character to another. the advantage of the feat is complete control over what your items do. when creating high level characters from scratch, it's best to ignore item creation feats, or to allow creation feats and restrict other player purchases to published magic items.

variants of existing items should be fine, and combination of items in the same slot should be fine as long as the player pays the extra gold to make it work. but unusual or unique magic items or what the seats are for.

as far as casters leaving melee characters behind, let's just stop talking about that. not only is it not true, but complaining about the system isn't enjoying it. the least fun thing in Pathfinder his hearing people complain about classes balance or other features. if you can't make a certain kind of character affective don't play it. a good GM finds an opportunity for every player to shine.

finally, whatever that no comment comment was, at least the GM deserves an explanation. if one of us has a problem with playing with someone else in this thread, the GM should know so we can make an informed decision. right?

Eh? People with Item Creation Feats DO get twice the items. Because it halves the cost of them. You get more bang for your buck. Twice as much, in fact.

I'll agree caster-martial disparity discussions don't belong in a Recruitment thread (Not because there isn't one...there clearly is if you've ever played above 10th level with someone who knows how to play, but because it won't change anything here), but that statement was flat out wrong.

This is what I was talking about when I said I wasn't feeling this group. Generally in these Recruitments, people make their characters, present them, and leave most debates by the wayside.

I've never been in such an argumentative Recruitment thread. Everybody here seems incapable of holding their own opinions without being at odd with the other players. If I (one of the more opinionated and argumentative people on this board) can participate in a Recruitment without (for the most part) nitpicking everyone's Feat and class choices to death because they chose to go with a less powerful option, so can everyone else.

Geez.

Which is too bad, the game itself sounded fun. If everyone had done as usual and just made the characters they wanted to and would find fun, and not worry about what everyone else does and does not have, this whole process would have gone a lot smoother for everyone involved.

Finally settled on a class combo and backstory,

Alchemist (vivisectionist) 18 /machine-smith 8 /transmecanical ascendant 10

He's also got a homoculous with a pair of cobra constructs that he keeps wraps around his arms

Character wealth by level is an assessment of overall wealth. It is the value of the things your character can carry and fit into relative game balance. It is not a number of gold pieces you get to spend on things. As such, you don't get double the gold just because you have a crafter feat.

Now, Wivvy might want crafters to function like that, and players would be silly not to take him up on it. So it can be house ruled, but considering the difference in Decthacion if I gave him Craft Wondrous, the game can't survive or offer challenges if we have double wealth for one feat. It will be hard enough to challenge gestalt characters to being with.

I'm actually trying to calm down the arguments. Folk can have any input they want, but please don't think of me as contentious. The arguments will slow down when everyone feels like they're playing by the same rules.

Sorta, game balence also assumes a certain amount of feats
For cmpairison look at those few magic items that grant the Benifit of a specific feat
They're expensive.

I'd like to swap my idea from chef to engineer, since that seems like it'd be easier to fit him into a "from Earth to Golarion" story if he were involved in Mr. Grigori's coupe attempt. Would also cover reasons why he's magically inclined and why he'd pick up Sacred Geometry.

Done with feats and 600k of gear. Gotta pick up spells and finish a few things. Hopefully, that pushes me into the extension, at least, but I should be done by midnight I think.

Sure, Foul. They were less expensive in 3.5, generally only costing about 5k for skill feats and 10k for combat feats.

But feats built into magic items aren't great design, and we're playing gestalt characters, so making sure we don't break the game further is on us. : )

Just a slight slant to some of the posts, please don't confuse argument/disagreement with open and frank discussion, if you note how me and Edward talked we both went over a number of options and points of view. This in of itself is a discussion not a out and out argument/disagreement. We are both concerned about the same thing. 'Balance' and not having a 'broken' game from the get-go. Other here seeking to be in the game have also voiced the same view. This I grantee you, we are all by the feel of thing in agreement over.
I do see Edwards point of view on this, in a discussion one must. It dos look like he is being penalised for not having a craft feat. My PC has one, other have taken more. Not having access to that for a PC can be a hard hit. Then you worry about keeping up. I made a PC that I feel has balance. My big worry now is having to remake my PC now so close to the deadline, but I would if others felt my balance was wrong.

Edward came up with the idea we hold of items, I have another what if any party that gets picked, has known each other for sometime or had time to craft for others. In that way Craft feat players could have made/can make items for the none craft feat players, thus removing the problem all together.

However that would mean players dictating to the GM pre game/in game setting stuff, that myself I do not feel 100% comfortable about doing, but it offers a fix that could work.

:)

Feat selection so far for The Grey Spectre:

Weapon Focus(Whip), Bonus for being a Kensai

Weapon Finesse, Bonus for being a Swashbuckler

Weapon Specialization(Whip)

Greater Weapon Focus(Whip)

Greater Weapon Specialization(Whip)

Improved Trip

Greater Trip

Tripping Strike

Improved Disarm

Greater Disarm

Combat Reflexes.

Nine down, Eight to go, lol.

UPDATED

====PCs Alts part built or done====
Lady Rosalyn Luminass GM Pandorica -> NG Monk18/Cleric18 built and done
Flori The Fabulous Dave Young 992. -> Slayer 18/Sorcerer 18 built and done
Graah! Rigor Rictus -> LN Male Goblin Alchemist 18 / Gunslinger (Pistolero) 16 / Monk (Monk of the Iron Mountain) 2 Alt built
Sazzat Tamm JoshB. -> 18th Rogue / 8th Ranger + 10th Horizon Walker. Alt built
Decthacion Alhasinin Steven T. Helt -> gestalt swashbuckler 18, magus (black blade) 18 Alt built

===Built and posted in Recruitment thread===]
Klor Kragsson Edward Sobel -> fighter (weapon master) 8/ stalwart defender 10 | rogue 16/ barbarian 2 - [PC done back story link also posted]
Team Charisma Vrog Skyreaver - bard | Paladin of Irori\oracle
Kawai fnord72 -> Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Evangelist 10//cleric 18
Jon Cage Lord Foul II -> Alchemist (vivisectionist) 18 /machine-smith 8 /transmecanical ascendant 10

Back story posted in Recruitment thread, Will make crunch if picked
The Grey Spectre! Monkeygod -> Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)/Magus(Kensai) full 18
James Bonfire trawets71 -> Ranger/Bard [not 100% on this]

[Can't find this complete submission sorry]
Norathior Dragonflyer1243 ->
Dudley Benfare drbuzzard -> fighter18/paladin (oath of vengeance) 18/gestalt 18 ?

Other players who have shown interest
AceDiamond -> sorcerer/arcanist
rorek55 -> Paladin 18/ fighter 18 ?
meeko ->monk/Druid ?

To be fair, I hate when some builds are simply not as good as other builds, I like players having their own strengths and weaknesses but not an upper hand. So, I will make it my mission in this campaign to create an even playing field for all players selected. If that means that I feel like a player is a game breaker, then he might find himself facing a demon lord and a couple of dragons all alone if that's what it takes. Obviously I'm not going to sentence someone do death like that, but I WILL make it very challenging to survive for everyone, not just the "weak links". Like I said, my picks will be based more on fluff than on crunch.

My point in this campaign is to make you go "Hell Yeah!" because you just finished a fight that seemed absolutely impossible. Not to make you feel like "Meh, another one bites the dust. Big whoop." Or think "Man, I can't do anything with this guy hogging all the glory. Why didn't make a more powerful player?"

So make a character that's just fun to play, leave the rest to me.

well here is book 2 if anyone is interested in reading it.

On the Devil's Advocate side of item creation, there is something to be said for planning out a group distribution of the item creation feats and duties, and working together to make sure they're covered. However, it does kind of require a pre-established group, and we are not sure at this point what GM Wivvy has in mind. However, with the lone wolf approach, Craft Wondrous is definitely the most versatile and therefore valuable, and the most likely for each player to take. The team that gets together may find themselves a lot less versatile when they discover that 5 of them can craft Wondrous Objects, and yet no one can craft Rings, Staffs, or Wands...

Reading now Edward, you should make this an online book.

Character wealth by level is an assessment of overall wealth. It is the value of the things your character can carry and fit into relative game balance. It is not a number of gold pieces you get to spend on things. As such, you don't get double the gold just because you have a crafter feat.

No, it really isn't. That's why Wealth By Level is listed in gold piece value, not "In gold and items totaling up to this market price and no higher".

Things have a purchase price, which you may purchase with your gold.

The crafting price is half of that.

That is the only real benefit of crafting Feats (which is a doozy). At these levels finding the item you want is trivial (the largest cities have a good chance of having what you need, and you can just have an NPC custom make it regardless), which would be the only other potential benefit.

If they worked the way you say they worked, the alternate rule from Ultimate Campaign would make no sense (each Crafting Feat raises your WBL by 25%, representing your ability to sell magic items in your downtime).

If you're looking for better balance, that rule is probably your best bet. It cuts the benefits in quarter (basically), but applies them across the board for each Feat. So you need 4 Creation Feats to total up to the benefit that Craft Wondrous alone essentially gives.

Here's my character's concept so far. Hopefully, I'm in under the deadline, and can qualify for the extra time to finish fine tuning.

I have my skills almost complete and I can buy a few more items if I'd be considered. And the background's more than a bit rushed, especially compared to Eric's books. Still, please let me know what you all think.

Though in the meantime, I think I need some sleep for tonight.

I don't think I'm going to get my earthling done on time, I didn't expect so much activity over the weekend.

If I don't get an idea in tomorrow, then I'm okay with waiting until the next go around. (I submitted some fluff on a kasatha cleric rogue. I then suggested a modification to be from earth, which I kinda like better.)

So, do we need full character sheet or just the fluff for selection?

Gold, classes, crafting and such, I fully trust the GM to sort all that out. so I will be saying no more on the matter :)

UPDATED

====PCs Alts part built or done====
Lady Rosalyn Luminass GM Pandorica -> NG Monk18/Cleric18 built and done
Flori The Fabulous Dave Young 992. -> Slayer 18/Sorcerer 18 built and done
Graah! Rigor Rictus -> LN Male Goblin Alchemist 18 / Gunslinger (Pistolero) 16 / Monk (Monk of the Iron Mountain) 2 Alt built
Sazzat Tamm JoshB. -> 18th Rogue / 8th Ranger + 10th Horizon Walker. Alt built
Decthacion Alhasinin Steven T. Helt -> gestalt swashbuckler 18, magus (black blade) 18 Alt built
Thomas Rubinski AceDiamond -> Sorcerer (Sage) 18 // Arcanist (White Mage) 18

===Built and posted in Recruitment thread===]
Klor Kragsson Edward Sobel -> fighter (weapon master) 8/ stalwart defender 10 | rogue 16/ barbarian 2 - [PC done back story link also posted]
Team Charisma Vrog Skyreaver - bard | Paladin of Irori\oracle
Kawai fnord72 -> Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Evangelist 10//cleric 18
Jon Cage Lord Foul II -> Alchemist (vivisectionist) 18 /machine-smith 8 /transmecanical ascendant 10

Back story posted in Recruitment thread, Will make crunch if picked
The Grey Spectre! Monkeygod -> Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)/Magus(Kensai) full 18
James Bonfire trawets71 -> Ranger/Bard [not 100% on this]

[Can't find this complete submission sorry]
Norathior Dragonflyer1243 ->
Dudley Benfare drbuzzard -> fighter18/paladin (oath of vengeance) 18/gestalt 18 ?

Other players who have shown interest
rorek55 -> Paladin 18/ fighter 18 ?
meeko ->monk/Druid ?

My submission is back on the first page (at least how I have things set up.) It has a short background, and the stat block.

UPDATED

====PCs Alts part built or done====
Lady Rosalyn Luminass GM Pandorica -> NG Monk18/Cleric18 built and done
Flori The Fabulous Dave Young 992. -> Slayer 18/Sorcerer 18 built and done
Graah! Rigor Rictus -> LN Male Goblin Alchemist 18 / Gunslinger (Pistolero) 16 / Monk (Monk of the Iron Mountain) 2 Alt built
Sazzat Tamm JoshB. -> 18th Rogue / 8th Ranger + 10th Horizon Walker. Alt built
Decthacion Alhasinin Steven T. Helt -> swashbuckler 18/magus (black blade) 18 Alt built
Thomas Rubinski AceDiamond -> Sorcerer (Sage) 18 /Arcanist (White Mage) 18
James Bonfire trawets71 -> Ranger 18/Bard 18

===Built and posted in Recruitment thread===]
Klor Kragsson Edward Sobel -> fighter (weapon master) 8/ stalwart defender 10 | rogue 16/ barbarian 2 - [PC done back story link also posted]
Team Charisma Vrog Skyreaver - bard | Paladin of Irori\oracle
Kawai fnord72 -> Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Evangelist 10//cleric 18
Jon Cage Lord Foul II -> Alchemist (vivisectionist) 18 /machine-smith 8 /transmecanical ascendant 10
Dudley Benfare drbuzzard -> fighter18/paladin (oath of vengeance) 18

Back story posted in Recruitment thread, Will make crunch if picked
The Grey Spectre! Monkeygod -> Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)/Magus(Kensai) full 18

[Can't find this submission on this thread sorry]
Norathior Dragonflyer1243 ->

Other players who have shown interest
rorek55 -> Paladin 18/ fighter 18 ?
meeko ->monk/Druid ?
Rynjin -> Sun Wukong 孫悟空 - The Monkey King

players who have Dropped out
Seth86
Iron Killer
Rynjin

If I have missed anyone or got something wrong, please let me know and I will update the list soon as I can :)

The CRB suggests that GM allow up to 25% additi onal wbl for crafters. But again, it's a gestalt game and we already have higher character wealth for 18th level.

I'm working on James Bonfire and I have a question about animal companions. Do they get full hit points as well?

The CRB suggests that GM allow up to 25% additi onal wbl for crafters. But again, it's a gestalt game and we already have higher character wealth for 18th level.

Right. But it doesn't change how the Feats work, unless the GM changes them (as is entirely within his rights, and perhaps even a great move for a game like this).

Banning Creation Feats is a good way to somewhat even the balance between casters and martials, given a scenario like this where you have essentially unlimited time to craft. The other way to do it is let crafters craft for EVERYBODY (essentially everyone gets what Feats someone has in the party), which would be a huge boost to everyone involved.

Blarg. I've been posting in this thread so much I kinda want back in. There's a lot of people here I'd like to play with (including you).

I was kinda bummed when I realized I couldn't mechanically make my Hamatulatsu Master idea work (doesn't stack with Master of Many Styles, and I really want MoMS), unless the GM rules they stack (and would let me back in). The only thing they both change is Bonus Feats (MoMS replaces them with Style Feats and Hamatulatsu Master adds more options to the usual list). Not a particularly good archetype but chock full of cool flavor and some interesting abilities.

I have the build done besides gear if so, and pending the answer to this question:

All right, think I've settled on a character. Monk (MoMS, among other archetypes)/Brawler. Didn't want to fiddle with making the Arcane Trickster thing work, and had some choice paralysis, so defaulted to what I know: Making really good punchers.

Rough backstory involves him stealing the secret techniques of the Hamatulatsu Masters (an all-female order of Monks who devote themselves to emulating the fighting style of Barbed Devils), and being pursued a great many years because of that fact. Eventually, he faked his own death to escape their notice, and laid low for a few years before resurfacing under a new name, upon which he properly began his adventuring career.

So, quick question before I finalize a build, how do you feel about utilizing the Retraining rules in the backstory (with all associated monetary cost, of course)?

There are a number of Qinggong abilities I would like to get, but due to the...odd way the Qinggong abiity chart is laid out (Abilities become available at 4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20...but the abilities you can trade them out FOR only come in at 4/5/7/11/12/13/15/17/17/19/20), it makes many impossible to properly acquire without Retraining. So I'd like to retrain some of my Qinggong choices at level 18 to get the ones I'd like.

In essence, this comes out to a cost of 900 gp per ability. I'd probably want to Retrain at least Wholeness of Body into Dragon's Breath or Restoration (Wholeness of Body appears at 7th, those at 8th) and Diamond Soul into Blood Crow Strike (appears at 13th and 14th).

If so, I can come up with a suitably epic backstory involving high stakes Wuxia-style action, and set my guy up as something akin to the Tiefling version of Sun Wukong (aspirant).

If not, I may drop Monk entirely besides 2 levels and then go Sacred Fist Warpriest for the rest of it for a similar flavor.

What about classes who get crafting feats as bonus feats, between my two classes I have four bonus craft feat (potion, wondrous, arms/armor, construct)

I think one way to make things more fair would be to offer at least some discount to non-crafters, since the crafters probably wouldn't charge party members full price. But on the other hand, martials just need to pick up the Master Craftsman feat to qualify for item creation feats. Depends on if you think a level or a feat is more of a dip.

Assuming he bans them, he could go the PFS route and replace it with Spell Focus or some other thematic Bonus Feat.

I think replacing each with your choice of:

-Spell Focus
-Skill Focus
-Extra X (where X is Bombs, Ki, Performance round, Rage, Whatever)
-Extra Y (Where Y is Discoveries, Magus Arcana, Rogue Talents, Etc.)

Would be more than fair.

I went the Master Craftsman route, and while the feat investment and skill points are expensive, I think it is perfectly reasonable if you want the benefit. I'd wager it is best left alone. Before this whole debate came up, I wasn't aware it was even an issue, I just thought it was the rules...

Let's keep in mind, we get an extra feat, and two skill points a level.

I am not sure how the martial's are complaining that they can't take master craftsman and spend the skill points to craft some of their own gear. Assuming that they don't take a crafting class on one side of their gestalt.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that even if the casters get more gear, and even though everyone sees power-mad min-maxing gestalts, the characters still only get one swift/immediate, one move, and one standard action.

I can craft all the command word items I want, I can still only activate one of them at a time.

Way I see it is:

Some martial characters are making builds that do massive damage.
Some caster characters are making builds that have a lot of magic gear.

both types had to make choices to get where they are.

I do see a lot of martial builds "complaining" that they should get their massive damage and lots of magic gear.

I don't see a lot of casters complaining that they want lots of magic gear and massive damage.

I think this discussion would have a lot more merit if the game was not gestalt, and there were not free feats and skills available.

Let's keep in mind, we get an extra feat, and two skill points a level.

Two extra feats actually. That's enough to take Master Craftsman, and Craft Wondrous, basically for free.