Nice. Can't wait to see the build and background.
@Pfarna: I wonder if they reuse names because the assume that if you have something like the ACG you would never choose the archetype or if you don't have it you wouldn't know it was a choice? Maybe it really is hard to find new good words that match the concept? I am a fan of Picaroon or Skallywag for pirates but I don't know that a class named that would attract many positive feelings. Heh.
@Wolfwaker: Sounds good on the character, no worries on needing time. Interesting choice on the kukris, I'll be sure to find lots of things immune to critical hits to throw at you. I kid. As to the siege weapon issue it is assumed that absent firearms that ballistae and such are used in ship on ship scenarios...and magic, lets not forget all the terrible magic. But I believe your current ship has...two ballistae at present...
@All: Three items:
1. Infamy/Disrepute. I like Voodoo's proposal. Its simple, easy to track and leaves most of the mechanical bits up to narrative interactions based on skill result. I too chafe at the PC suddenly casting wind gust. Either there is someone around to cast it or not...why have another *thing* that does that? It seems like a beta attempt at Fame/Prestige which is funny because I actually like the flavor of that system.
My biggest critique would be that a group particularly geared to this system would be able to acquire lots of gold that might distort WBL...I'll be honest in saying that I haven't generally seen this as a problem per se.
I think I have been lucky in ending up with groups that tend to find plenty of fun ways to spend money that don't directly relate to character power. Additionally I have noted many treasure ideas in the APs and elsewhere that serve as add ons to the ship (magical masts, figureheads, etc.) SO...I think even if you got more money you could sink it into things that would mirror some of the ideas from the infamy/disrepute as physical changes to the ship...which I like mechanically.
So I am fine to run with Voodoo's set up and see where it goes. I also like that it seems more alignment neutral, which I appreciate.
2. Guns. I'm a fool and I like them. I especially like them with pirates. But I'm sensitive to the critiques of their presence in fantasy and the PF implementation in general. So...I am game to have them show up in special circumstances or more commonly if there is interest but I will leave it to you guys to tell me what you would prefer.
3. Maiming/Injury. My previous game had agreed to this for critical hits. I think it is a good idea flavor wise. Any issues with this?
I have never been a big fan of guns/gunslingers in fantasy, but it is up to everyone else.
No problem with the injury/maiming.
I'm sure the designers weren't initially thinking new class and the name was fine for the archetype. TBH i'll have to see how these new classes work. I'm very happy with the archetypes and concerned that we may be headed for the land of 3.5 rules bloat... pessimist, I know.
WW- you do know that paired kukris is Lamashtu's calling card, no?
Yes, two ballistae listed on the MP. You can use the statted ship on the campaign page if you like DCD. I do like the Fire as She Bears rule set much better than that offered in the S&S Player's Guide.
I haven't really had much chance to check I/D on the loot end. My Freeport players are much more interested in harassing people than robbing and even the money they get goes straight into The Vault and they never spend it. Nutters.
No prob with rare guns.
Crit/Maim- I've kinda went back and forth between applying maiming to crits or applying it to -hp. I don't know which happens more. I usually record each time that I go negs as a scar on my PC and by 10th I have maybe 3-4. It doesn't feel that I've had many more crits than that. I ask my player if they want to lose a limb when they are critted. One passed on a wooden leg though he's a crippled oracle. A shark chomped him and I thought it would have been suitable. The other took a hook when he got critted trying to grab back his boarding axe from an asylum inmate. That was pretty awesome.
WW- you do know that paired kukris is Lamashtu's calling card, no?
Ah yes I had forgotten about that. That is sorta funny.
Wolfwalker - rather than the old standard of dual kukris, you could have fun. Take dual light picks with x4 crit. I will get Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting next level and in two levels, at Swashbuckler/5, will have Improved Crit with my cutlass. It will be fun to transfer lots of crits to you. You could also take a bigger weapon like a heavy pick and a shield. Really depends on whether you want to be dex based or strength. With the damage increase, the 4x transferred crits will only get more fun (for us, not the DM).
Swashbuckler is pretty much a dex focused class, so I don't have a choice to go with the big damage weapons.
Really depends on whether you want to be dex based or strength. With the damage increase, the 4x transferred crits will only get more fun (for us, not the
You guys can do whatever you want. Especially in games like this, I believe in "you get what you give". As your reputation grows certain foes will adjust their tactics, in my mind it is insane to think otherwise. Transfer crits away just dont be surprised when you are attacked by a bunch of maneuver specialists who try to seperate you constantly.
Not trying to threaten or anything just want to be clear that I have every intention of hqvibg the world/AP respond to you and whatever shenanigans you get up to.
I was more pointing out that we would have 2 dex based melee characters. It works either way, just depends on whether he wants to go the two-weapon route, or some big weapon. Either way he will pair well with me and we will jointly hold the ship while the more intellectual members of our party blast whatever is before us.
Pfarna, I'm definitely going the 2 weapon route. The double d6 (d8 at 5th) damage is too tempting to pass up and the free Weapon Focus helps make up for the -2. I'm not a finesse build though, I have 15 DEX and 14 STR. I was excited about putting Keen on my kukris with my special ability to get a 15-20 threat range. That is a pretty awesome idea though, so I am thinking seriously about it. I don't think it will change anything else in my build though, they are both 1h light weapons.
Captain, no problem, I would expect nothing less.
I don't mind guns at all (so long as they don't overpower all other weapons), gives a nice pirate flavor.
WW- you do know that paired kukris is Lamashtu's calling card, no?
Didn't know that. Maybe pick is better flavorwise although I liked the idea of him having a bunch of different knives (cold iron, silver, etc.) stashed on his body. Maybe if I get maimed I can get a pick hand?
Dual light picks can be used two handed. You can also use a light/heavy pick combo with 2-weapon fighting. If you want to save the feats, Heavy Pick/Shield is a good combo for a front line fighter.
However, make your character however you want, I was just putting forth that my Swashbuckler is a solid front liner, but excels at teaming up with another damage dealer.
For a little further info - Voodoo, DM Devon, Sooty and I are in another campaign together. In that one we have me, a pure archer (ok melee at best), Sooty (a conjurer mage - probably the only character that really fits the normal character (melee/skill/arcane/divine) category), DM Devon (a rogue working on getting some melee skills so that the rest of us do no get overwhelmed by hordes of monster), and Voodoo (the evil DM). The last character in that campaign is a Bard with knowledge skills out the roof, and fighting skills that are good if you want to slow, but not stop a weak enemy for a round or two.
So, we are all familiar with working around non-standard builds.
Normally I might save the feat and use a bigger weapon but the warpriest rules (free weapon focus and d6 damage (increasing with level) make it attractive to dual wield the same weapon. Don't worry, I can get plenty of damage if I use my ability to give it flaming/shock/etc. I just hope I don't have to fight too many skeletons. ;-)
Captain: some clarifications...
Warpriest says I can use my fervor to cast a spell I have prepared on myself as a swift action, no somatic components, no AoO. At first I thought that didn't use up the spell (just the fervor) but I guess it uses the spell too, right?
I want to take Eldritch Heritage (arcane) to get a familiar (archaeopteryx). At level 5 (since it operates at level-2) it can deliver touch spells--I assume that would work with cleric spells right? (Thinking that would be handy for healing in combat.) Does that work? Can I cast a healing spell at the start of combat and have him deliver it later (as long as I don't cast something else)?
And can I safely assume my familiar can do various tasks, respond to commands, etc? Or do I need to use the rules for teaching tricks to animal companions?
Anyone: thoughts on channeling (postive vs. negative energy)? I don't get as much as a cleric and I have to give up 2 uses of fervor. Some of the variant channeling rules are neat but I'm not sure if they are worth giving up the normal channel. I could do 1/2 damage normally but 1.5x to aquatic types.
Captain: some clarifications...
Warpriest says I can use my fervor to cast a spell I have prepared on myself as a swift action, no somatic components, no AoO. At first I thought that didn't use up the spell (just the fervor) but I guess it uses the spell too, right?
My understanding from the boards and beyond is that was the intention. Super fast/safe casting but you still exhaust the spell.
I want to take Eldritch Heritage (arcane) to get a familiar (archaeopteryx). At level 5 (since it operates at level-2) it can deliver touch spells--I assume that would work with cleric spells right? (Thinking that would be handy for healing in combat.) Does that work? Can I cast a healing spell at the start of combat and have him deliver it later (as long as I don't cast something else)?
I'm going to be honest that this raises some flags for me mechanically but the concept is interesting. The conceit here being that basically you magical attachment to the animal qualifies in the eyes of your god for the purposes of being a "wielder" of his/her/its power. I can find mental justifications for it both ways but I tend to land in the "we might as well try it" camp...so we might as well try it. As long as we see eye to eye that if things go super silly and I ask to re-assess you are willing to do so.
And can I safely assume my familiar can do various tasks, respond to commands, etc? Or do I need to use the rules for teaching tricks to animal companions?
The basic conceit for familiars is that their enhanced intelligence makes tricks "moot" but there are a few tricks that would (in my mind) still be hard to wrap your head around with no training. So I say that at this point with its Int being what it is that you aren't really going to have an issue unless you try something particularly sophisticated (mostly the DC 20+ tricks) might require an int check from the familiar. Telling it to get "help" is within the realm of empathic understanding, telling it to "entertain" or "bombard" without training might require it to stop and "think" about it.
If that seems fair it makes sense to me, I don't want to see you sink the skills in something that won't have lasting value and the thing gets smarter and smarter...
Anyone: thoughts on channeling (postive vs. negative energy)? I don't get as much as a cleric and I have to give up 2 uses of fervor. Some of the variant channeling rules are neat but I'm not sure if they are worth giving up the normal channel. I could do 1/2 damage normally but 1.5x to aquatic types.
My personal observation is to set it to positive and then let it fade into obscurity. I don't think it is worth sinking the feats into as a WP (otherwise go cleric then go nuts) and without things like selective channeling, the default of positive has more day to day utility as a boon to the party and/or the crew of your ship. My 2 CP anyway. Not to mention that you could choose to spontaneously cast inflict (and thereby fervor inflict) and then channel positive.{or vice versa} Those two set of choice are not linked from my reading of the class. Fun for neutral WPs.
Wolfwaker here, I like this avatar. Crunch is mostly done but I didn't get a chance to finish this weekend. Trying to come up with a good backstory.
Sorry, I don't want to hold us up. I'm having trouble coming up with a reason he would be devoted to Gozreh and also a pirate. I guess he was saved from a shipwreck or something. His family was killed by sahaugin and he dedicated himself to fighting? He is a Mwangi from Sargava and took up piracy to fight the colonials? Because they were despoiling the land? Maybe he was a slave in the mines somewhere (explains the picks) and now he only wants to be under the open sky? Any thoughts?
Also some of the Mwangi worship an amalgam of Desna and Gozreh called Shimye-Magalla. Should I go with that or just make it Gozreh for simplicity?
The god of storms and the goddess of surf and waves. He reveres Gozreh and asks for favorable winds and weather for his ship, (does it really matter that it is a pirate ship?) and adverse winds and weather for his adversaries. I think it makes a lot of sense.
He could have been raised near the shore and thereby devoted himself to this nature god.
------
Perhaps he was a Mwangi warrior who was captured and enslaved and forced to work in mines on one of the islands. He escaped and joined a pirate crew where he learned the importance of the winds and the waves. This learning instilled in him a religious fervor for the storms and sea, but still his warrior training always is there.
I like it, that fits with what I was thinking.
Excellent, sounds good. Now that I no longer wish to do great harm to my computer or the Paizo site I will get a post up in the next 24 to "set the stage". Feel free to roleplay before and around that post.
Captain: some clarifications...
I want to take Eldritch Heritage (arcane) to get a familiar (archaeopteryx). At level 5 (since it operates at level-2) it can deliver touch spells--I assume that would work with cleric spells right? (Thinking that would be handy for healing in combat.) Does that work? Can I cast a healing spell at the start of combat and have him deliver it later (as long as I don't cast something else)?
I'm going to be honest that this raises some flags for me mechanically but the concept is interesting. The conceit here being that basically you magical attachment to the animal qualifies in the eyes of your god for the purposes of being a "wielder" of his/her/its power. I can find mental justifications for it both ways but I tend to land in the "we might as well try it" camp...so we might as well try it. As long as we see eye to eye that if things go super silly and I ask to re-assess you are willing to do so.
I forgot to reply to this earlier. OK with me.
I was wondering if I could take Aquan as my bonus language, seeing as how he serves an aquatic themed god.
Q may have known Sooty in Ilizmagorti- seems we have 2 short people on the run.
It's prob a good idea to think ahead about dealing with underwater action. I'm thinking we may need a wand of touch of the sea as party gear so it doesn't take up most of my spell slots. The duration is going to suck though.
I no swim good, Sooty has the spell, Pfarna prob will need it and maybe WW.
Next the question about breathing underwater: 4 scrolls of water breathing @ 375?
Any other group gear?
We could get potions or scrolls of Aboleth's lung (2nd level druid spell for gillmen) if those are allowed. I am getting a wand of alter winds.
Aquan is okay and, i'm willing to say someone ran into aboleths lung for potions/wands...finding a scroll would be more difficult but i'm willing to let you roll for it
Also some of the Mwangi worship an amalgam of Desna and Gozreh called Shimye-Magalla. Should I go with that or just make it Gozreh for simplicity?
The Bonuwat specifically worship Shimye-Magalla. They are also excellent sailors so plenty of opportunity for them to join a pirate ship.
Gozreh's got a reputation for indifference so mixing that with a little of Desna's luck might not be a bad thing. I don't think anything has really been written on Shim-Mags though.
Also some of the Mwangi worship an amalgam of Desna and Gozreh called Shimye-Magalla. Should I go with that or just make it Gozreh for simplicity?The Bonuwat specifically worship Shimye-Magalla. They are also excellent sailors so plenty of opportunity for them to join a pirate ship.
Gozreh's got a reputation for indifference so mixing that with a little of Desna's luck might not be a bad thing. I don't think anything has really been written on Shim-Mags though.
therefore whatever you say about it must be true!
It’s generally known that Shimye-Magalla reflects Gozreh’s female aspect—that which matches the capriciousness of the sea—and pairs it with Desna’s love of travel, freedom, and the stars by which the Bonuwat navigate. Beyond this, however, many of the big questions such as who’s actually granting spells to the goddess’s adherents—continue to go unanswered by outsiders.
And knowing is half the battle.
I wonder if Sooty could just procure some Aboleth Snot-
** spoiler omitted **
And knowing is half the battle.
Nice, Mark. Where's that from?
Sargava, The Lost Colony - one of the older Player Companion books.
As an FYI, I may have limited ability to post until Saturday. I will probably get some time in, but will be on the road for work and have a very busy schedule which is likely to greatly cut into my posting time.
How do we work that mechanically? Can I use items attuned to either deity? Both favored weapons (or pick one?)? Can I pick Blessings (like Domains for Warpriests) from Desna also?
Build is ready but I may want to try a different blessing from plant.
Can I use items attuned to either deity
Yes
Both favored weapons (or pick one?)?
Pick
Can I pick Blessings (like Domains for Warpriests) from Desna also?
Yes
Sounds good. I'm wondering if I should but my bonus feat into longbow (weapon focus) or ballista (proficiency). I'd like to be able to attack effectively at range. I know we have a grenadier already.
Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot is much more important than WF. WF gives out +1 attack with just longbows. PBS gives +1 attack and +1 damage if <30' with all ranged weapons. Precise shot eliminates the -4 for shooting into combat.
If you are only shooting at long range, then WF might be ok, but really does not seem like a feet you will get that much use out of.
For the record I detest EWP, its a trait at best as far as I'm concerned, so I will wave the proficiency requirement and bump the skill requirement to 3 for Siege Engineer if that is of interest. Using that sort of thing is rare, I think a feat covers it. I like a lot of things about 3/3.5/PF but the notion that weapons would be so generalized by class/type and then suddenly super finite for marginal gain boggles my mind. If Firearms require only one feat, I am not charging more than that for anything else.
Seconded that the road to Precise might be a better investment than WF.
Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot is much more important than WF. WF gives out +1 attack with just longbows. PBS gives +1 attack and +1 damage if <30' with all ranged weapons. Precise shot eliminates the -4 for shooting into combat.
If you are only shooting at long range, then WF might be ok, but really does not seem like a feet you will get that much use out of.
Good points, but for warpriests, taking Weapon Focus automatically gives you sacred weapon status with that weapon (you start with your deity's favored weapon plus one free weapon focus), allowing you to use your level rather than BAB (so an extra +1 now on top of the feat bonus, +2 after 5th level) and letting you for several minutes a day add a +1 magic bonus, or flaming, shock, etc. Also my air blessing lets me ignore range penalties a few times a day (this is with any weapon) so it would be a pretty nice package.
Re: shooting into combat, if they are on deck I'll be right there in melee. If there's a big kraken or something off the bow (or another ship) I can shoot at it.
But given Dread Captain's offer, I guess I will take the Siege Engineer feat (and shift my skill ranks), unless we have a couple of people already who can use those weapons.
I'd like to clarify if the Air Blessing (no range penalty for 1 minute) will work with a ballista and whether the ballista is eligible for sacred weapon status (normally granted by anything I take weapon focus in).
Interesting, I did not realize that any weapon with WF counts as a sacred weapon. The real questions is whether it is worth taking this at level 1. You really do not get the damage bonus until much higher level. The other benefits are nice, but it is the incremental damage that rocks. Especially when dual wielding small/light weapons (kukri, picks, daggers, etc).
Still, without Precise Strike, you are going to be -4 firing into combat. Taking WF in Ballista or some similar weapon is an interesting thought though.
Yeah, the increased damage from the sacred weapon would not matter at all for the ballista, but I could make it flaming. I guess +1d6 isn't that big a deal on 3d6. Making it keen might be interesting. Still, that is a ways off. How exactly does the ballista work, the head of the crew needs to be proficient? Would we have someone besides our grenadier who can operate them?
The attraction of the bow is +2 to hit now and an extra +1 at 5th, plus possible magical enhancement.
Maybe I should give up the 2 feats for the familiar. I thought delivering healing spells would be a nice capability. I guess we already have a bird for scouting.
Actually, FLAMING BALLISTA + BOAT = BIG PROBLEMS
Mhmm I see the way that sacred weapon is laid out, interesting.
You may be right Shaso, that in most circumstances you won't need to worry about the precise shot penalty.
As to the issue of sacred/air blessing and the ballista. Yes and yes. Note that you won't elicit AoOs either...so...if you ever need to shoot someone point blank there is that LOL
Ballista typically need a team of two to three but only the shooter needs the proficiency. Sooty (if he ever actually shows up) might not be able to shoot it at all without the Siege Feat or some other proficiency, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that in pirate waters this is something that can be found on the occasional mid level NPC. IF it is the common way to fight ship to ship, circumstances dictate that a few folks tried to get trained on it. Maybe they are the poor souls who wasted a feat slot on EWP. Silly bastards...
are you coming in at level 1, Shaso? oooh, old school...
Should say level 4.
As a note, Shaso, you can put anything you want on the same line where you type your Class/Level. I use [ooc] and include HP, AC, saves, perception and init so that the DM and I can easily find them. You do not have to, but I think you will find it makes finding key things like this much easier.
I say let's just keep going sans Sooty for now and keep him aboard as an NPC Gunnery Sgt/Engineer. Dorf can always jump in when he returns.
Pfarna, thanks. I knew about that and I will add it when I get a chance. I've been busy with work and kids basketball is in full swing AND I'm starting to exercise every day (blood sugar too high!), so apologies for the slow start and continual changes.
May lose the familiar to get more weapon skills. My other new character has an owl so I can try out those tricks with him.
No problem, ready to move on. We can DMPC him for a while and then he can jump in. With the three of us, we have ok skills (Quillin high Int, me 4/6 skills per level), healing, good melee, arcane spells, and decent divine spells. We are missing trap finding, but I can always grab that next level by taking a level of Slayer.
I understand the kids taking up time. My two are on the local ski racing team, so it is out the door Saturday and Sunday at about 7:45 to make it to the slopes when the lifts open, and then don't get home until the sun is going down.
That's neat...where do you live? The only skiing anyone can do around here (Alabama) is on the water. Although is cold enough for snow skiing right now.
I still am mulling over the last couple of feats. May just take weapon specialization (pick) for the +2 damage and the siege engineer. One day it will be fun to take weapon focus: ballista (needs a magic ballista or me to be at +2 sacred weapon to make it Keen).
One day it will be fun to take weapon focus: ballista (needs a magic ballista or me to be at +2 sacred weapon to make it Keen).
A part of me really wants to make that happen for you...something about a warpriest sailing the high seas with his ballista of smiting amuses me.
On the kid front I can't imagine more than one. My son is smack dab in the middle of 3 and he alone is my Everest. I've never understood the notion of loving something so much that makes you so angry but now I get it.
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My first kid is coming in July...scary.
Hey..you set sail without even inviting me ye swabs
There's going to be a keelhauling..
[whispers] I don't know who she is.[/whispers]