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Sometimes, I have need of a weaker version of a creature. The "young" template doesn't quite do it.
I'm thinking about standardizing something like this:
Creatures with the diminished template are weaker than the ordinary variety.
Quick Rules: -1 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; -4 to AC and CMD; -2 hp/HD.
Rebuild Rules: AC modify natural armor by -2; Ability Scores -4 to all ability scores.
Are there any emergent issues with this? Anyone else been doing it?
Sometimes, I have need of a weaker version of a creature. The "young" template doesn't quite do it.
I'm thinking about standardizing something like this:
Are there any emergent issues with this? Anyone else been doing it?
Creatures with the diminished template are weaker than the ordinary variety.
Quick Rules: -1 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; -4 to AC and CMD; -2 hp/HD.
Rebuild Rules: AC modify natural armor by -2; Ability Scores -4 to all ability scores.
I've done this before occasionally (also it's -2 on all rolls, but I assume it's a typo by the OP).
You have to be pretty careful, though, especially at low levels. This doesn't modify special qualities at all, and it only modifies the damage on special attacks like breath weapons insomuch as it lowers the DC, so if the creature got its CR due to insane specials and relatively weak combat stats, it may turn into either a glass cannon (relatively unaffected powerful special attack, much lower AC and health) or an impenetrable chump (unaffected DR or defense that is unlikely to be penetrated by the PCs, like a Diminished monster with DR against 1st-level PCs, but with worthless attacks).
It usually turns out fine though, and you can usually apply it to combat brute monsters with no stand-out special attacks or defenses without a second thought.
Sometimes, I have need of a weaker version of a creature. The "young" template doesn't quite do it.
I'm thinking about standardizing something like this:
Are there any emergent issues with this? Anyone else been doing it?
Creatures with the diminished template are weaker than the ordinary variety.
Quick Rules: -1 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; -4 to AC and CMD; -2 hp/HD.
Rebuild Rules: AC modify natural armor by -2; Ability Scores -4 to all ability scores.
I thought about something similar recently, but I thought it could be done using things already in the game like age categories, those would of course represent monsters that had perhaps gotten on in years. For something that had contracted a disease and was running its course you could apply whatever disease it had contracted and run it like it was slowly degenerating to the disease. The other though I had was something like a crippled monster, reduced in movement and perhaps physical stats.
Diminished seems very nice though, pretty much the opposite of whats already available to buff and fills the gap between normal and young (which has its place, but not all the time). I just wonder what you use it to represent, I guess it could be all of my suggestions or just a 'runt of the litter' type situation.
Diminished seems very nice though, pretty much the opposite of whats already available to buff and fills the gap between normal and young (which has its place, but not all the time). I just wonder what you use it to represent, I guess it could be all of my suggestions or just a 'runt of the litter' type situation.
Well, not all creatures have young. Constructs, or in the case I've run up against, animate dreams, both seem kind of weird with the young template...
The other thing is, while advanced is 100% beneficial, the young template is not 100% detrimental. So I think there is a role for a diminished template.
Maybe this is something Paizo would like to include in the Bestiary Volume III?
BTW, Spell Resistance is another thing to consider. I would actually rework the SR when applying the diminished template to account for the decrease in CR as per the monster creation guidelines.
Don't get caught up in the terminology. A "young" stone golem is simply a lesser stone golem. Not as powerful as the standard.
Don't take the Young template at just that word. Young is also used for smaller. "You can also use this simple template to easily create a smaller variant of a monster." It could have been called Young/Miniature, but the mechanics of it work or what it needs to do.
*ninja'd*
The big difference between a Diminished Template and the Young would be the size change. Over all I agree. Young does a fairly good job of making a "smaller" version of a monster but not necessarily a weaker one.