Question: Since the claws are natural weapons, can I make two attacks anyway as a full round attack at full BAB and no TWF penalty? If I remember correctly, claws are primary attacks and both hit using full BAB. I just would not get iterative attacks at higher levels.
|
Question: Since the claws are natural weapons, can I make two attacks anyway as a full round attack at full BAB and no TWF penalty? If I remember correctly, claws are primary attacks and both hit using full BAB. I just would not get iterative attacks at higher levels.
Unless the GM has some different/house rule, natural weapons are completely different from TWF, in a way that in a full-round action you can make ALL your primary attacks at your full BAB and ALL your secondary attacks with a -5 penalty.
You can also combine your weapon attacks with natural attacks. In this case, you take no penalty in your weapon attacks, but all your natural ones are considered secondary (with the -5 penalty).
I thought so. So I don't need Swift Claws Maneuver unless using manufactured weapons.
|
|
I thought so. So I don't need Swift Claws Maneuver unless using manufactured weapons.
Discipline: Thrashing Dragon (Strike); Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Duration: InstantDESCRIPTION
The Thrashing Dragon disciple's skill with his dual weapons allows him to strike with practiced speed and alacrity, allowing him to make an attack with two wielded weapons (or unarmed strikes), using the same attack action. Creatures with more than two arms may still only strike with two wielded weapons.
Unless I'm looking at the wrong maneuver, there is nothing mentioning you not taking twf penalties. This maneuver allows you to make two attacks, with two different weapons, using just a single action, thus allowing you to take a movement action, and then use this maneuver to make two attacks, as if you had taken a full-round action.
This is true for both weapons and natural attacks. If you had two weapons, you'd still take twf penalties, since nowhere mentions you don't take them. The benefit of this maneuver is its action economy, not the removal of penalties.
Both claws are primary attacks. No penalty when using Thrashing Dragon. Go to town.
|
|
One of the authors of the book said you don't take the penalties.
Well, this is why I don't like 3rd party material. IMO one should not have to look in different sources to discover what was the developer's intent of a particular rule. If it exempts you from the penalty, it SHOULD have been mentioned in the power.
Nevertheless, it still gives you the ability to attack twice with the same standard action, so it is still viable.
Also the design quality is inconsistent - though arguably current Pathfinder stuff is of inconsistent quality as well. I'm not super-concerned about it at this time, I don't put it in the category of "this is the one broken trick that will be used to win every fight" or "you must take this or you are clearly making the Wrong Choice."
Yeah, I was thinking of retraining that level as barbarian. The whole reason I took it was so Cassandra, who cannot ride a horse, would not hinder the party in exploring forest hexes and be slightly better at archery since I have to wait a lot longer just to get rapid shot. 7th level at this point. I want boon companion at 5 which is when I get one.
|
|
DM, two things before I post:
1st, I forgot to add the inspire courage bonus to Carinna's last attack, so she should have dealt 1 more damage (every point counts in this tricky situation!)
2nd, does the brown wall would provide her total cover against the arrows if she moved 1 south? Just trying to know exactly what is terrain here because in 1 or 2 shots she might be dead.
I think the owlbear will take precedence. I back up and out of line of fire to guarantee that.
The brown walls are wooden and full height - if you are on one side and someone else is on the other, you do not have line of sight or effect to each other.
(Been swamped at work. Apologies, I'll probably be spotty for a bit, between work and the upcoming holiday season.)
Carinna still hasn't gone.
I'll retcon or bot if needed, though she's unlikely to kill the commander in one shot. (She might get the black-haired guy with piercings.)
"Unlikely" is not "impossible," it turns out.
Last few days have been pretty crummy -- sorry for the wait.
DM moved Telmarni into that spot already.
Telmarni's pissed that the Stag Lord shot her sister in the face. :)
I'm at my in-laws for the holiday, should be home in 2 days!
There's a little wrap-up to do, after which we should decide how we want to recruit 2 replacement players (for Kava and Telmarni's spots).
My first option is to recruit from people you folks already know and enjoy, if we can't get two from there, to go back to the list of people who applied, if we don't like anyone from that list we go to a reopened recruitment.
Any suggestions from people you know? :D
http://paizo.com/people/Zedth
A DM in another game and doing a fantastic job. Might want to be a character too.
http://paizo.com/people/Arythain/campaigns
Same as above.
http://paizo.com/people/Galorit/campaigns
Excellent player from a previous game that is currently on hiatus. The game I mean. Good track record for consistency.
|
|
Yup, if the wolverine comes closer, we attack, if he remains distant, we could talk to him perhaps. Carinna and Cassandra probably don't know about it, but Korinne might be smart enough to imagine something is amiss...
A wolverine on the walls... could it be a druid with wild shape and spider climb?
Could be.
I was out visiting family, and wound up away an extra day, so I'm hoping to update again either tonight or tomorrow.
Ok, recruiting! I know of nate lange, he may be worth a ping. I don't know the people suggested by Cassie, but Zedth seems all right? Solid writing, at least, seems familiar with the systems in a good way. If they're up for team play those two may be worth a shot.
Anyone else have any feelings one way or the other?
Zedth might be a no go. Just had a child and had to close the campaign he was running.
Well, in that case, I'm inclined to extend an invite to nate lange, and to Galorit, who's in another game that I'm also in. That ok with everyone?
Well, they're not nameless, but they don't really have extraordinary classes, levels, etc. Topper Red (because he has red hair), Fat Norry (who's really fat), you get the idea.
My favorite part is how much character you give the NPC's. I like it when the decision is hard to cut them loose, have them join or exercise our charter given right. But I can also understand not wanting to have to play and account for all of them. Throwing Tiger and ?Akiros? in to the ever expanding party on top of Vance and Hatch might be more than you bargained for. Phenomenal job on them. Especially Vance coming in with the save on the swashbuckler dude. Don't push it so far it becomes work. I like this game.
It's fine, the kicker is that when you guys get Leadership, a lot of these dudes & dames will likely become followers, if you want them. Folks like Tiger and Akiros can become cohorts - Tiger, incidentally, is a level 1 slayer, not a warrior like most of the other bandits. If you want to wake them up and learn their stories, you can. If you would rather just put them into the gaol until you decide what to do with them, that's fine too.
Also, since I haven't heard any opposition, I'm reaching out to nate and to Galorit.
Also also, I can't take all the credit for Vance's amazing shot. The natural 20 was the whim of the die roller! But Vance will tell you that he was just that good. :)
Hello everyone! Thank you for the recommendation, Cassandra- your words are flattering. It's good to see you again, and I find it funny that your DM ended up being in another game with me.
I toyed with the idea of reading through the gameplay thread, but I think it would actually be more fun to come in on this blind. I've never been in a Kingmaker game before, so you'll be able to fill me in on juicy bits in character. I do have experience with the downtime mechanics though, and can put those to great use (I like to use spreadsheets).
What kind of character are you all looking for to fill out your game?
I have a character from a defunct game that is perfect for this setting- Vallen Silverclasp, a dwarf cleric and craftsdwarf (architecture, masonry, engineering, etc... great for building towns!) Further down the road he would be good for making magical items most likely.
He's a bit weird because he's focused on high skill points instead of divine spells, and he's also about as brave as a rabbit with agoraphobia. Vallen does a lot of hand-wringing and worrying, but he's dependable, and I will probably retool him to give him access to firearms so he can hide behind a boomstick. :D In any case, his personality is written out, which I find to be the most difficult part to create.
If that doesn't tickle your fancy I wouldn't mind playing a Ninja, Zen Archer, or Unchained Rogue maybe, but it will take me longer to come up with a character concept.
We're at the point where the group might be able to recruit some support roles via NPCs, though of course having a PC do the job is often advantageous. Note that we don't have a dedicated healer and because Korinne gets her ability to cure from an arcanist ability, she doesn't have cure light wounds on her normal spell list and thus can't use a wand of that spell. (She just has the ability to temporarily add the spell as if it were so that she can cast it - a fine but important distinction.)
We also don't really have anyone who can deal with traps. Cassandra is reasonably good at stealth and a strong fighter so having a roguish "stealth buddy" might be a good fit with her.
Note that if you play a dwarf cleric there is a question of where you'll fit in the kingdom roles - for instance, the state religion is unlikely to be dedicated to a dwarven god. Also, much of Kingmaker's kingdom-building takes place in forests, plains, and swamps; there's almost no mountain terrain, and not 'til much later.
The up side is that it will provide a nonhuman ally and a lot of strong support magic for the group. KM campaign building also allows for a discount on build costs of structures if you have powerful construction magic (fabricate, wall of stone, etc.), so this could be a huge help in kingdom-building. Also, you would be in-theme with some powerful domains such as Artifice and Rune.
If you want to be really focused on skills and not fighting as a cleric, you might try the cardinal archetype, which gives you low BAB, limited armor, and one domain, but in exchange gives you a ton of skill ranks and more class skills.
In terms of other alternatives that you mentioned:
• Ninja or Zen Archer: You'd need to work out why you've come all this way from Tian Xia, and decided to get involved in the politics of this region. Could be interesting but also means that there would be cases of cultural clash or "Why does my character care about this?"
• Unchained Rogue: No problems with this, though it's so broad that you could do a lot of things with it.
You make a very compelling case for me to go ahead with Vallen. Really the ninja and zen archer were off-the-cuff, I didn't even think about how it would suck to justify their presence.
As for Why, it's easy for me to imagine him being simply hired by whomever is sending you all out to establish this kingdom in the first place, or as you put it, acting as a racial liaison or perhaps a "gift" of support to the new kingdom. When the beautiful walls and perfectly laid out streets start springing up, the Dwarfs wouldn't mind taking credit, eh? In fact, in Vallen's previous backstory, he had always dreamed of designing an above ground city, which is technically unlimited in space unlike the subterranean.
The terrain itself isn't a bother. He likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. Priority heals to whomever gets the reference.
Wow, thank you for showing me the Cardinal archetype. I thought I had combed all of the cleric archetypes long ago, but I was wrong! This may be perfect for him. Losing spontaneous casting hurts, but nothing leaving a few spells slots open can't solve.
The question is exactly how useless he'd be in combat. I was originally thinking Cleric and picking up Artifice (Construct) and Black Powder Inquisition for his domains, giving access to firearms. But why would he hate magic? That's silly. It's really just an excuse to round out his damage, which I could accomplish by just going Earth domain for Acid Dart. In conclusion, crossbows were invented for a reason, and at some point maybe Vallen can build a golem with a ballista arm and he can ride on its head.
As for your trap problem, what do you think about the Nimble Fingers, Keen mind trait Jesse?
Hello Korinne! Thank you for telling me the general alignment. I will have to think about that as well. Vallen could easily swing to neutral good with a few tweaks, but I might also leave him as is just so the group has a goody-two-shoes foil. ;)
So, the cardinal archetype is really designed to be a support caster who is also a politician, but you can easily turn those extra skill ranks into different class skills if you use a trait to gain a new class skill, like the one you mentioned. Nimble Fingers, Keen Mind is associated to Brigh, the god of artifice, who is generally perceived as a construct and is thus a deity appropriate to humans and dwarves alike - a reasonable bridge between those worlds, so to speak. Brigh is, however, Neutral in alignment, so if you wanted to fit with the good intentions of the party you'd be Neutral Good. This would also create some interesting RP opportunities because Kingmaker tends to push heavily for Erastil as a patron of the party's lands, and as the god of rustic community living, Erastil doesn't really see eye-to-eye with Brigh. They aren't enemies, they just don't have a lot in common.
Also remember that the cardinal archetype only gets one domain. To be honest I think it probably gives up too much for what it gets (basically, gain 4 extra class skills and 4 ranks per level, while losing moderate BAB, shields, medium armor, one domain, AND spontaneous healing), but you could take Black Powder Inquisition. That, in turn, would lock you into doing gunfighting, which then means you are almost certainly stuck locking your feat choices into Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Reload - because the only way you'll hit things with a low BAB and mediocre Dex is to be making ranged touch attacks with your gun.
It's thematically very interesting but may be an uphill battle to feel like you're contributing a lot, is what I'm saying. If you find the role more important than doing lots of damage or having really strong domain powers and healing, then I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Another alternative is to take the Iron Priest archetype. This one still gets two domains (so you could have Artifice and Black Powder Inquisition) and doesn't give up armor or BAB, plus it has a different skill selection that includes Disable Device as a class skill. You keep the spontaneous casting, and you can still heal with channeling, you just also gain the ability to heal constructs with channeling (and lose the ability to harm undead).
If you go the Iron Priest route, you could still be a cleric of Brigh, but you might be a cleric of a different god, such as Torag or even Abadar or some other civic or construction-based god. While the archetype was originally made for the Iron Gods AP and was designed for cultists of computer-machine-gods, it is also a great archetype for dwarven craft-priest types. The downside is not nearly as many skill ranks as the cardinal. You could slightly offset this with the open minded feat, which I would allow.
One last thought: At a future date it might be good for someone to do magic item creation so that the party isn't held hostage to what's found in the AP. This could easily be a cohort from someone's Leadership, though.
Cloistered cleric.
Marginal - 4 skill points but loses actual spell progression and has really crummy weapon skills. (Maybe less of a hindrance if using Black Powder Inquisition.)
Another hidden advantage of playing a Dex dwarf with a gun is that you don't have to care about strength. Your movement won't be modified by armor or encumbrance anyway and you'll be trying not to be in melee combat.
You can use the Open Minded feat + favored class bonus to get 4 skill points/level (+2 background skills, which should get you Craft and maybe Knowledge [engineering]), since you won't be doing as much melee and you can probably skate by without using your favored class bonus on hit points (especially since the dwarf bonus to Con helps there too).
|
|
Welcome to our group, Galorit! I have thought about your dilema, and I have a couple suggestions opinions that I hope will help you.
Cardinal Archetype: Even if it appears to be weak on paper by comparing what he loses and what he gets in return, lets instead look at what it still is, comparing it to a wizard...
.Both will end up with similar number of skill points, same BAB, Reflexes and Will saves. The cardinal will still have better Fortitude, better hit points, and the ability to use light armor.
.Regarding class features, I believe a domain is slightly inferior to a school specialization (both give two abilities and bonus spells, with the difference that in the wizard case, it is an open slot), but the channel energy is pretty good in comparison to the bonus metamagic feats.
.Regarding the spell list, I believe it is somewhat equivalent, since the wizard list is more versatile, but the cleric has access to his whole list.
In the end, I believe the cardinal is still a pretty decent choice, but you'd have to imagine/play him as a wizard, and not as a cleric... for example, you don't really try to make your wizard effective in combat with weapons.
Healer and Skill-monkey needed: I'd like to remember you that we are down to three players, and we are looking for two more... I believe there is no real need for you to try to fill the two roles by yourself. Also I'd not really worry about your dwarf being able to deal damage, since by supporting/buffing our more combat oriented PCs, you'll for sure deal more damage on the long run.
Possible combination of Cardinal and Forgemaster: If our GM is feeling generous, and considering he already gave his own opinion that the cardinal gives away too much, perhaps he would allow you to use both the Cardinal and the Forgemaster archetypes. Generally it is not possible to take both, since both of them modifies the same ability (the one that restricts you to a single domain), but since the Forgemaster restricts your choice even further by forcing you to take the Artifice domain, and the Cardinal might be on the short side of power, the GM would allow it... I believe it would be quite fitting with your idea.