Hey everyone,
this is the space where we can discuss about your characters for the upcoming campaign. If you want, dot in the gameplay thread to make this thread appear in your campaign tab.
Happy Gaming!
Hey everyone,
Still early in the character creation process but...
I'm thinking of a paladin of Iomedae from a fallen noble house that is long past its glory days. My PC may have been adopted by a monastery/church and is only now learning of his family's history.
I'm leaning towards human but could also go tiefling.
Do you think the above story line will get muddled with a tiefling paladin?
Should I stick with a human paladin?
EDIT: I've briefly perused the tiefling entries and, having never played one, decided this is probably a very good AP for it.
So I'll be stretching my roleplaying muscles and play a tiefling paladin.
I'm counting on Giuseppe to not let my PC forget that he is a second class citizen. :)
Just a note from me: do not decide your character yet. Everyone still needs to see what the others want to play too. I believe that discussing the options available before choosing would be good.
Just a note from me: do not decide your character yet. Everyone still needs to see what the others want to play too. I believe that discussing the options available before choosing would be good.
Ok, then. I will hold off on further research until the other players have their say on what they want to play.
BTW, how many players are there?
Hi everyone,
Excited for the opportunity to play this AP. From reading some of the background, I have two character concepts floating in my brain.
The first is human, a grizzled old paladin of Iomedae. He took the oaths at a young age, not knowing that the rule of Thrune would last. Since then, he's struggling with his oaths and his loyalty to Cheliax. He most certainly does not want a revolt, but has (dwindling) hope that the country might right itself, somehow. In the meantime, he tries to do the best he can. It's a gritty character with a real chance of falling and having to get back up. Fighting style would be sword and board, with a focus on shield slam if I can create a feasible build from that.
The second concept is a devil-kin tiefling, cleric of Shelyn. Downtrodden, considered ugly and with low self-esteem, she's turned to the teachings of Shelyn as a matter of personal salvation: she really wants to believe that there is beauty in everything, because that would mean that she would have some redeeming qualities as well. This character would start out quite 'low', with lots of opportunities for personal growth. She'd have average to low Charisma. That means channeling won't be too powerful. She'd rely instead on good casting, and decent martial ability.
Fabian, I noticed that out concepts overlap a bit (both the paladin class and the tiefling race). I suggest we wait until the fourth player has had a chance to share their ideas, and then discuss how we might shuffle things around to get four distinct characters, that we're each happy with.
Fabian, I noticed that out concepts overlap a bit (both the paladin class and the tiefling race). I suggest we wait until the fourth player has had a chance to share their ideas, and then discuss how we might shuffle things around to get four distinct characters, that we're each happy with.
Yeap, agree.
Let's wait a bit before going down too far.
Just so we all know what Giuseppe wants, I think it's the following:
- one PC from each of the four 'classes' (martial, skilled, divine, and arcane); and
- one from each of the 'typical races' (human, tiefling, and halfling) and a fourth PC would preferably also be a human but there seems to be some flexibility there.
Is this correct?
As you said Fabian! ;)
Thinking it over, I could probably play a tiefling wizard as well so if no one wants the arcane role...
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Hey! I gave Giuseppe a sort of tepid yes on his invite at first, but the more I think about it the more excited I am for this. :)
Based on the game I'm in right now, I think I want to play a character that 1) has arcane capabilities and 2) plenty of knowledge skills. So that means bard or wizard.
For race, I like tieflings, but it sounds like there are already multiple people who are thinking of that, so I'll leave it to others.
The concept I'm most interested in right now is a conjurer wizard focused on devil binding. Not an Asmodeus worshipper, but someone who thinks that they have the discipline it takes to control fiends and bend them to the aid of mortals and Westcrown without falling prey to diabolical influence. Of course, whether they can resist that corruption and temptation is yet to be seen. ;) With a Lawful Neutral alignment, they could go in for the Diabolist prestige class. I think a human from a noble or at least comfortable merchant family background makes sense for this kind of character.
I don't have nearly as concrete an idea for a bard, but playing into the opera scene seems like a pretty rich vein for connecting to the city. A historian bard could be fun, especially if they wanted to get in touch with the Pathfinders. Perhaps a halfling who covers up their digging into a forbidden part by playing the fool.
Giuseppe, how would you feel about an older character? With both of these characters, I think I'd like to start off at least middle aged. I'm not looking for any mechanical bonuses our anything, but I think it would root the character in the city's history in a way that would be nice for either concept. In Pathfinder Society, for example, you can make a character in any age category (besides venerable) with no stat adjustments. Do you think that's something we could do here, or work out something else?
Ok, that seems to be the four players.
Here's what I gather, please correct me if I'm wrong:
Fabian, tielfing paladin or tiefling wizard;
Iff, human paladin or tiefling cleric;
mechaPoet: human conjurer or halfling bard; and
Xynen: halfling rogue (1st) or cleric (race?).
I was looking forward to a tiefling but if I switch, everyone gets one of their options. So..., how's this?
Fabian, human paladin;
Iff, tiefling cleric;
mechaPoet: human conjurer; and
Xynen: halfling rogue.
I'm, of course, open to other options...
Hi, mechaPoet. /waves
That sounds good a good starting point, Fabian. I'll dig further into my cleric concept. Maybe I can change it to human without too much impact.
Some questions for Giuseppe:
- Would you consider having two tieflings?
- How does the devil-kin tiefling work under our Vintage rules? Does it need the Fiendish Heritage feat? If so, will the 'Variant Tiefling abilities' table also be used? Does it only change the stat modifiers, or also the SLA and skill bonuses? (From what I've gathered, there's multiple incarnations of those rules, and the part with the skill modifiers and alternate SLA's came later)
- I've been looking at the cleric's skills. 2 points per level seems quite low for fleshing out the character, unfortunately. Might be a reason for me to stick with human, for the extra skill point. Alternatively, would you maybe consider the background skills option from Pathfinder Unchained (even though it clashes with the Vintage concept)?
Giuseppe, how would you feel about an older character? With both of these characters, I think I'd like to start off at least middle aged. I'm not looking for any mechanical bonuses our anything, but I think it would root the character in the city's history in a way that would be nice for either concept. In Pathfinder Society, for example, you can make a character in any age category (besides venerable) with no stat adjustments. Do you think that's something we could do here, or work out something else?
Middle aged is fine. Also, if you want to use the stat adjustments, you can do so, I'm not against it. But it's optional: if you want to stick with the usual stats and play a middle aged character without stat adjustment, that's fine too.
1. Would you consider having two tieflings?
2. How does the devil-kin tiefling work under our Vintage rules? Does it need the Fiendish Heritage feat? If so, will the 'Variant Tiefling abilities' table also be used? Does it only change the stat modifiers, or also the SLA and skill bonuses? (From what I've gathered, there's multiple incarnations of those rules, and the part with the skill modifiers and alternate SLA's came later)
3. I've been looking at the cleric's skills. 2 points per level seems quite low for fleshing out the character, unfortunately. Might be a reason for me to stick with human, for the extra skill point. Alternatively, would you maybe consider the background skills option from Pathfinder Unchained (even though it clashes with the Vintage concept)?
1. I would definitely consider having two tieflings. As I wrote in the Character Creation Document, the fourth party member's race allows some freedom of choice.
2. The rules for variant tiefling heritages were featured in the Tiefling of Golarion article from Council of Thieves and then expanded in Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of fiends. Although the latter isn't legal for our game, the first source is.
Variant Tiefling Heritages
Most tieflings possess a fixed variety of ability scores to reflect their fiendish heritages, regardless of the actual source of their foul traits. GMs might grant their tiefling NPCs or players variant ability modifiers based on their foul ancestries. At the GM’s choice, such heritages might be determined deliberately or randomly, and may come with their own distinctive abilities or traits selected from the following charts. PCs who wish to have greater control over these modifiers may take the Fiendish Heritage feat.
Devil-Spawn Tiefling: +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma. Stalwart and conniving, diabolical tieflings know the discipline and might of Hell’s legions.
Let's roll to see what you'd get.
That would be a qlippoth-spawn tiefling (bleah).
So you'd need the Fiendish Heritage feat to get your Devil-Spawn Tieflin. I think that since tiefling are pretty powerful if compared to the other core races, using a feat to select your heritage would balance things.
FIENDISH HERITAGE
You possess a strong tie to your fiendish ancestors,
granting you favorable abilities.
Prerequisite: Tiefling, must be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: Your fiendish bloodline proves particularly strong, being tied to a specific race of fiends. Rather than taking a tiefling’s usual racial ability modifiers, choose one of the tiefling heritage modifiers presented on page 64. In addition, you may roll on the Variant Tiefling Abilities table three times and choose the most favorable ability.
The Variant Tiefling Abilities table may be used. If you take the Fiendish Heritage Feat, you may roll on the Variant Tiefling Abilities table three times and choose the most favorable ability.
3. I know, clerics are pretty low on skills, as Paladins and Fighters are. Anyway, I wouldn't allow Pathfinder Unchained rules. If you want to stick with a human, you could also use your previous concept for the human paladin: I think that it would work equally well with a battle cleric anyway.
OK, so it's not as clear cut as I would have thought.
No background skills and Fiendish Heritage feat for devil-kin.
Ok, how's this...
Fabian, tiefling paladin;
Iff, human cleric;
mechaPoet: human conjurer; and
Xynen: halfling rogue.
I'm Ok taking the Fiendish Heritage feat for the paladin; the CHA penalty is no fun but I'll roleplay around it.
Thoughts?
I like that party make up as listed above, definitely an interesting dynamic. Working on my rogue throughout the day will have something of a concept by tonight or tomorrow morning.
I'll wait to hear from mechaPoet and Iff to make sure they are OK with their class/race before going too far into my PC.
Giuseppe: I know you said we'd start in about a month; does this respond to you getting ready or for us to finish our PCs?
Game on!
Thanks for the answers, Giuseppe. I don't think I'd be comfortable with my concept of the grizzled Iomedaen in this group as a cleric. That would probably give too much overlap with Fabian's paladin. My preference would be for characters of two different faiths. Having two tieflings as paladin and cleric might work as well, but could become a bit awkward in the social department (especially with a halfling rogue, and 'only' a wizard as human).
With that in mind, I've been thinking about my cleric and about a specific background to flesh out the earlier concept. I have pieced something together that could work as a human character, and I'd like to share. It's building on quite a few tropes and I'm worried that it might be too 'corny'. On the other hands, they're tropes because they work, and I have a fondness for sticking close to the classics.
Background
Our would-be cleric had little to complain about when she was young. With a famous Wiscrani actor as a father and a gifted violinist as a mother, she would spend her early years listening to them both rehearse, safe from the dangerous times in the outside world. She liked to sing along with them, and her parents encouraged her, claiming a bright future in the operas. This all changed during one fateful week, when she was [seven?]. First came the fire, which torched their house and left the little girl with ugly burn marks. The next morning her father sent her away to an aunt, without explanation. A few days later, her parents vanished without a trace. To make matters worse, her aunt then dumped her in an orphanage, claiming to have urgent business in Egorian. Confused and lonely, left in a harsh environment, the young girl became convinced that her family abandoned her because of her scars, that they couldn't face the fact that she would never be on stage, ugly as she had become.
Regardless of the real reasons, the girl grew up having to fend for herself, growing up lonely and bitter. While [singing to herself/playing the violin], she was noticed by a kind priest of Shelyn. He took her under his wing and introduced her to the temple and to Shelyn's teachings of beauty and love. The young woman was reluctant and skeptical of this attention, but found some solace in the warmth of the temple attendants. She's just started on the path to healing, to building confidence in herself and in reconciling with her past.
Starting motivation
There's still plenty of variation possible in motivation, depending on what the others would pick. This would be solidified in which campaign trait to choose. I could see Conspiracy Hunter, with perhaps some recently uncovered information that there's more to her parents than she knew. Child of Infamy would fit as well, as could Westcrown Firebrand (the latter resulting in a stronger character and motivation right from the start).
Giuseppe, maybe you could provide some information in this regard. Could you give an indication of how the campaign will start? Should we know each other beforehand and have a clear motivation to be 'heroes', or will there be some galvanizing event to bring us all together and on the adventuring path?
Mechanics
Mechanically, I would maybe pick the Charm and Luck domains, and try to invest in Bluff along with Diplomacy. The glaive seems like an obvious pick, with a small investment in physical skills (Str 14, Dex 12-14, maybe with Combat Reflexes) to add some martial capability for the early levels.
@Iff: Good start!
@Giuseppe: yes, I would also like to know what the 'hook' is for the start of the adventure.
When I take the Fiendish Heritage (for devil-kin), do I roll for the alternate traits?
Is there a way to replace some of the racial traits for something more appropriate for the PC? For example, I would like to replace the 'skilled' and 'fiendish sorcery' traits?
Could 'fiendish sorcery' be reskinned and be allowed to work for the CHA-based paladin abilities (i.e., lay on hands, divine grace, etc.)?
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I am quite happy with the human conjurer idea. I think she'd be an older lady (around 60), a proud member of the old (pre-Thrune) nobility. After losing much of her family's power, not to mention quite a few family members, she may be having a crisis of identity concerning the worth and power of her bloodline. So, proud Chelaxian that she is, she has sought out alternative avenues to power and prestige. If the upstart House Thrune can deal with devils, then so can she!
I'm not sure how she would connect to the other characters, but i can think if some hooks.
She could reasonably have been aware of Iff's cleric's parents, if her family was a noble patron of the arts. That could engender some sympathy for their daughter, as someone who is all too familiar with broken families.
If Xymen is open to it, her family could have once employed (if not owned) a halfling rogue or their family at some point. Of course, they wouldn't be now, as the crumbling estate has had to go through some significant downsizing.
If Fabian's tiefling paladin was abandoned by a noble house, who's to say that the paladin and the conjurer aren't cousins? Perhaps neither of them are particularly aware of this. I feel we may run into some conflicts when it comes to how a paladin feels about working with a Diabolist, but hopefully we can come to an agreement to minimize friction. I'm planning on a Lawful Neutral alignment, for what it's worth.
As far as mechanics go, I suppose that Augment Summoning would be the go-to feat for a conjurer. I am a little concerned about how to do that in PbP well. I can of course provide ample links and such for summoned creature statistics. I'm more worried about making more work for Giuseppe in terms of adding creatures to the map and such. I don't know if it would be a hassle. I could instead focus on the other conjuration spells, with the occasional planar ally or planar binding.
Interesting choice to go for a devil-dealing character, mechaPoet. Should lead to some interesting roleplay opportunies. I do hope you'll consider having a generally 'good' outlook on the world? Otherwise this might lead to some tension within the party, I'm afraid.
Giuseppe would of course have the ultimate say in this, but I think PbP would be a good environment for summoning, in general. Your time rolling attacks for monster would not detract from anyone else's time, as it would in a face-to-face game.
Giuseppe would of course have the ultimate say in this, but I think PbP would be a good environment for summoning, in general. Your time rolling attacks for monster would not detract from anyone else's time, as it would in a face-to-face game.
For what it's worth (I know Giuseppe will have the final say); below are the rules for 'summoners' in the PBP games I DM:
- only summon 1 creature per spell (i.e., forget the options of 1d3 or more creatures); and
- only one spell active at any time.
While I realize that this nerfs the 'summoner' to some extent, you don't know what sort of havoc four to six new creatures (two 1d3 spells) wreak on the battlefield until you have to suddenly DM for these extra creatures.
Game on!
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My conjurer definitely has the potential to be a bit sinister and cause some tension. I am hoping to avoid the worst of that in the following ways:
-Emphasizing her allegiance to Cheliax, but especially Westcrown, because it has been her family's home for generations.
-Taking an attitude toward devil-dealing that does not worship or admire devils, but instead sees them as means to an end. She may not share, say, a paladin's concern regarding trafficking with fiends, but I think she is still wary.
-Having her be old nobility, but not being a huge jerk to other races because 1) her old school manners don't allow for being really rude and overt with it, 2) she's conscious of her own fallen position in society, and can maybe start to empathize with the powerlessness of people lower in Chelish heirarchy, and 3) this is one of the things I can most directly control about her interactions with other characters, and I don't want to subject our tiefling and halfling characters to an unmitigated torrent of hatred every time I want to ask them something.
For summoning, I think keeping it to one summon per spell sounds like a fine option. I can also be sparing with it, as that Spell Focus (conjuration) can do a lot for me with other conjuration battlefield control spells (grease, glitterdust, etc.).
Giuseppe: I know you said we'd start in about a month; does this respond to you getting ready or for us to finish our PCs?
Kind of both. You'll need a lot of time in order to complete your readings, I suppose! After all, I'm aiming for well detailed characters and I absolutely need that you actually read the preliminary sources before creating your characters, so I believe that rushing too much won't be useful. Besides, I also need that time because my other campaign must end in order for me (and Iff and Mechapoet) to be ready for a new one.
Thanks for the answers, Giuseppe. I don't think I'd be comfortable with my concept of the grizzled Iomedaen in this group as a cleric. That would probably give too much overlap with Fabian's paladin. My preference would be for characters of two different faiths. Having two tieflings as paladin and cleric might work as well, but could become a bit awkward in the social department (especially with a halfling rogue, and 'only' a wizard as human).
With that in mind, I've been thinking about my cleric and about a specific background to flesh out the earlier concept. I have pieced something together that could work as a human character, and I'd like to share. It's building on quite a few tropes and I'm worried that it might be too 'corny'. On the other hands, they're tropes because they work, and I have a fondness for sticking close to the classics.
Background
Our would-be cleric had little to complain about when she was young. With a famous Wiscrani actor as a father and a gifted violinist as a mother, she would spend her early years listening to them both rehearse, safe from the dangerous times in the outside world. She liked to sing along with them, and her parents encouraged her, claiming a bright future in the operas. This all changed during one fateful week, when she was [seven?]. First came the fire, which torched their house and left the little girl with ugly burn marks. The next morning her father sent her away to an aunt, without explanation. A few days later, her parents vanished without a trace. To make matters worse, her aunt then dumped her in an orphanage, claiming to have urgent business in Egorian. Confused and lonely, left in a harsh environment, the young girl became convinced that her family abandoned her because of her scars, that they couldn't face the fact that she would never be on stage, ugly as she had become....
Just a few considerations on my part. First off, the beginning is very promising and I'm looking forward to learn more about her, is she's gonna be your definitive choice. I do appreciate the background hook left behind, and can already see myself using it.
Giuseppe, maybe you could provide some information in this regard. Could you give an indication of how the campaign will start? Should we know each other beforehand and have a clear motivation to be 'heroes', or will there be some galvanizing event to bring us all together and on the adventuring path?
The campaign will start with your character being recruited by someone who thinks you - along with your future peers - have the talent to aid Westcrown.
Knowing each other beforehand could result in some strong hooks and RP opportunities, and while it is strongly encouraged by me, I must recognize that this is not always possible, so my advice is to create as many preexisting relationships with other PCs as possible, without feeling forced to do so when it is not plausible.
When I take the Fiendish Heritage (for devil-kin), do I roll for the alternate traits?
Is there a way to replace some of the racial traits for something more appropriate for the PC? For example, I would like to replace the 'skilled' and 'fiendish sorcery' traits?
Could 'fiendish sorcery' be reskinned and be allowed to work for the CHA-based paladin abilities (i.e., lay on hands, divine grace, etc.)?
What do you mean here by alternate traits? Do you mean tieflings' physical features?
No reskinning for fiendish sorcery. In fact, I believe that tiefling is a sub-optimal choice for a paladin as it is, but I'm especially wary about changing races to allow players class to fit them well. In the past, this created a lot of problems for me, so I'm not going to repeat it.
Consider your options carefully. A tiefling paladin is strong character concept, but could also result in a too-weak character, so think carefully about it.
I am quite happy with the human conjurer idea. I think she'd be an older lady (around 60), a proud member of the old (pre-Thrune) nobility. After losing much of her family's power, not to mention quite a few family members, she may be having a crisis of identity concerning the worth and power of her bloodline. So, proud Chelaxian that she is, she has sought out alternative avenues to power and prestige. If the upstart House Thrune can deal with devils, then so can she!
I'm not sure how she would connect to the other characters, but i can think if some hooks.
She could reasonably have been aware of Iff's cleric's parents, if her family was a noble patron of the arts. That could engender some sympathy for their daughter, as someone who is all too familiar with broken families.
If Xymen is open to it, her family could have once employed (if not owned) a halfling rogue or their family at some point. Of course, they wouldn't be now, as the crumbling estate has had to go through some significant downsizing.
If Fabian's tiefling paladin was abandoned by a noble house, who's to say that the paladin and the conjurer aren't cousins? Perhaps neither of them are particularly aware of this. I feel we may run into some conflicts when it comes to how a paladin feels about working with a Diabolist, but hopefully we can come to an agreement to minimize friction. I'm planning on a Lawful Neutral alignment, for what it's worth.
As far as mechanics go, I suppose that Augment Summoning would be the go-to feat for a conjurer. I am a little concerned about how to do that in PbP well. I can of course provide ample links and such for summoned creature statistics. I'm more worried about making more work for Giuseppe in terms of adding creatures to the map and such. I don't know if it would be a hassle. I could instead focus on the other conjuration spells, with the occasional planar ally or planar binding.
Very good start Mechapoet! I like the idea of a devil-binder and the overall concept of an older character, but I would like to share some considerations:
- Maybe you can reconsider your age. A woman in her 60s is maybe too much for adventuring. I fear that it would make some situations not realistic enough. Maybe loweing that age a bit, let's say 50 years or so, would make the things much more plausible.
- Make sure to have a strong motivation to work for the good of Westcrown. You don't need to be good-aligned, but many of the actions you're going to take part in this campaign are going to be particularly good, so you should ensure that your PC has enought motivations to follow the party in those adventures.
- As far as conjuring goes, my opinion is as follows: I'd like to try it and see how it works for me. If it's too burdening for me, I'll let you know. But I don't like the idea to prevent you from selecting one of the most powerful options for a mage just because it would add a bit of work on me. So, again, let's try it and see how it goes before we decide anything. If it will be too much of a stress for me to handle all of those summoned creatures, I'll let you switch your feats and so on.
When I take the Fiendish Heritage (for devil-kin), do I roll for the alternate traits?
Is there a way to replace some of the racial traits for something more appropriate for the PC? For example, I would like to replace the 'skilled' and 'fiendish sorcery' traits?
Could 'fiendish sorcery' be reskinned and be allowed to work for the CHA-based paladin abilities (i.e., lay on hands, divine grace, etc.)?
What do you mean here by alternate traits? Do you mean tieflings' physical features?
No reskinning for fiendish sorcery. In fact, I believe that tiefling is a sub-optimal choice for a paladin as it is, but I'm especially wary about changing races to allow players class to fit them well. In the past, this created a lot of problems for me, so I'm not going to repeat it.
Consider your options carefully. A tiefling paladin is strong character concept, but could also result in a too-weak character, so think carefully about it.
Prehensile Tail: Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.
Is it Ok to replace fiendish sorcery with prehensile tail?
With regards to changing PCs, I think I'm kind of stuck because, if everyone keeps their current PC concept, it leaves me with a tiefling and a martial class.
Would mechaPoet consider being a tiefling wizard?
Would Iff consider being a tiefling cleric?
If so, I could become a human paladin...
Yep, Tiefling could still work for me.
(Will reply to Giuseppe's info later.)
Just to add to the above and from a mechanical POV...
A tiefling paladin would have to take the devil-kin feat to have +2 CON, +2 WIS, and -2 CHA, which is not optimal but much better than the regular +2 INT, +2 DEX, and -2 CHA.
I'll have to agree that a tiefling paladin will be sub-par, especially since you would have to burn the 1st level feat to obtain marginally better stat modifiers.
The best option for a tielfling PC is to be a wizard or a rogue since you would have +2 INT, +2 DEX, and -2 CHA, without having to burn a feat.
I hate to do this because everyone seems advanced in their concept but do we shuffle things around so we don't end up with a 'sub-par' PC?
Thoughts?
Yep, Tiefling could still work for me.
(Will reply to Giuseppe's info later.)
Are you sure, Iff?
Don't you want to wait until the others express their thoughts?
Well, my initial concept was either the human paladin or the tiefling cleric. In that sense, I'm sticking more true to concept if I make the switch. The loss of a first-level feat doesn't hit too hard on the cleric, especially one not focused on channeling (and not needing Selective Channeling). The stat modifiers of the devil-kin also fit pretty well, and I could easily bend the background I had written to incorporate the tiefling aspect.
If mechaPoet would be interested in tiefling, that's also definitely an option. Xymen switching to tiefling would make less sense, because in that case one of the others would have to switch to halfling.
Furthermore, I believe that Iff's concept would be great with a tiefling (scars just don't do the job as well as a fiendish nature, and those stats bonus are pretty nice for a cleric), while Fabian's would be optimal for a human with ties to an old but long since died noble (human) family.
Furthermore, I believe that Iff's concept would be great with a tiefling (scars just don't do the job as well as a fiendish nature, and those stats bonus are pretty nice for a cleric), while Fabian's would be optimal for a human with ties to an old but long since died noble (human) family.
Ok, then. Thank you, Iff.
I'll go back to my original concept, human paladin from a fallen noble house.
Giuseppe: any particular noble house?
I was thinking that perhaps it could be an existing noble house but my PC sort of revolted and renounced his last name when he figured out that the noble house was 'evil'.
Let me know if you have a preference one way or the other.
Game on!
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I can lower the age to 50, no problem.
I think she will have plenty of motivation to aid Westcrown. Despite the devil stuff, she values her city and its history. All that said, if anyone has any concerns, let me know here or via PM, I'm open to suggestions and want to make this as smooth as possible.
I agree that we can try out the summoning route and see how it goes, Giuseppe. I will do my best to provide stats for all of them when I summon them!
Additional question on noble houses, in the same vein as Fabian's question. The Cheliax: Empire of Devils book lists a number of noble family names in the section on Westcrown. Would any of those be appropriate, or would it be better to make one up?
Cool. The description of tiefling on d20pfsrd had a line that triggered me just now.
"The taint is long-lasting and persistent, often manifesting at birth or sometimes later in life, as a powerful, though often unwanted, boon."
I could see the fire acting as a sort of catalyst, unveiling my character's tiefling nature at once. That would help to increase the shock and add another layer of unknown elements in her parent's decision to drop her at her aunt.
One other thing I'd like to try for this campaign is to keep a diary. In many of my regular campaigns as a player, I've kept a written record. It's probably less useful in PbP (since you can always search the thread for earlier clues and encounters), but I've always felt that it added another layer to the gameplay for me. Additionally, it feels fitting for a girl who grew up lonely. When everything is mostly settled, I'd like to present my background in a series of diary excerpts.
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Mechanically, with the tiefling stat adjustments, I could end up with Str 14, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 10. Since I'll be taking the fiendish heritage feat, I'm also going to roll for the Variant Tiefling abilies, instead of the Darkness SLA:
33: DR 2/silver
54: DR 2/piercing
58: You heal yourself of double the normal amount of damage by resting.
Hmm... Nothing too far 'out there', but certainly decent. I'll probably end up taking the first option.
I also need to work on my PCs, ideas brewing in my head, but I'm 'lazy' when there's no deadline. :)
The campaign will start with your character being recruited by someone who thinks you - along with your future peers - have the talent to aid Westcrown.
Knowing each other beforehand could result in some strong hooks and RP opportunities, and while it is strongly encouraged by me, I must recognize that this is not always possible, so my advice is to create as many preexisting relationships with other PCs as possible, without feeling forced to do so when it is not plausible.
That works perfectly for me. I could see her being quite surprised and reluctant to be selected, but I'll be sure to include some elements in her background that could draw the attention of such a recruiter.
About connections, we'll see when everyone has fleshed out their ideas. I like the part about mechaPoet's wizard being sympathetic to my priest. I've also thought about including a halfling employee in the household of her parents, of whom she is/was very fond. That might help make her initially sympathetic to our rogue.
Giuseppe, I wanted to get started on the earlier diary entries as part of my character background. For that, it would be helpful to know the year in which the campaign plays. If I guess correctly from the publishing date of the AP, that's 4709 AR?
So it looks like it's human paladin for me...
FLUFF (so far)
- young idealistic man
- fallen noble house (well past their time of influence)
- no one in his current family seems to know or wants to talk about 'the glory days'
- it's been close to a century since his family was in his prime (they lost everything when Thrune came in to power)
- works in menial jobs (stone mason or other manual labor)
- meets old priest while repairing an old church (orphanage?)
- begins his instruction on Iomedae
- slowly taught about his family
- believes he can change things
CRUNCH
With regards to build, what do you guys prefer (longsword is a given for a paladin of Iomedae):
a) longsword, heavy shield, power attack, cleave or
b) longsword, light, spiked shield, two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash.
CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER PCs
Not sure yet.
I don't see any connection with the conjurer. In fact, they may be at odds until the air is cleared between them.
Have ties with rogue and/or cleric from either past work (he's a stonemason) or the work he does in the church/orphanage.
Thoughts?
Repairing an old church sounds like a good way to get into talks with the clergy there, and as a plausible way to get drawn into their faith. My cleric would also have had some menial jobs after leaving the orphanage, so it's entirely possible they would have met 'on the job'. Maybe she was selling food to the workers, or hauling up water and clay from the river.
Crunch would be up to you, but I would personally be more inclined to go with options B. Longsword and shield means you only get the 1-handed bonus from Power Attack, not the +3 damage bonus. More importantly, with a heavy shield you don't have a hand free for healing or casting spells. With the light spiked shield you can cast and lay on hands without having to drop your sword. The TWF setup relies a bit more on Smite Evil, but I'm guessing we'll be dealing with plenty of enemies where that counts. You also have a bit of head-start with the extra feats, since you're human.
As for connection, the fact that she's also from a Wiscani noble house seems the best chance to look. Maybe you have heard about her, or (tried to) talk to her once or twice regarding your family and its history. She either helped you along a bit, or rebuffed you. The latter would set up some nice situation where you can start off quite 'cool', and slowly grow respect to respect each other.
Giuseppe, I wanted to get started on the earlier diary entries as part of my character background. For that, it would be helpful to know the year in which the campaign plays. If I guess correctly from the publishing date of the AP, that's 4709 AR?
Exactly ;)
So it looks like it's human paladin for me...
FLUFF (so far)
- young idealistic man
- fallen noble house (well past their time of influence)
- no one in his current family seems to know or wants to talk about 'the glory days'
- it's been close to a century since his family was in his prime (they lost everything when Thrune came in to power)
- works in menial jobs (stone mason or other manual labor)
- meets old priest while repairing an old church (orphanage?)
- begins his instruction on Iomedae
- slowly taught about his family
- believes he can change thingsCRUNCH
With regards to build, what do you guys prefer (longsword is a given for a paladin of Iomedae):a) longsword, heavy shield, power attack, cleave or
b) longsword, light, spiked shield, two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash.
CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER PCs
Not sure yet.I don't see any connection with the conjurer. In fact, they may be at odds until the air is cleared between them.
Have ties with rogue and/or cleric from either past work (he's a stonemason) or the work he does in the church/orphanage.
Thoughts?
Very good start Fabian. I've got only one suggestion concerning the way your PC has come to be instructed in his faith. It's very unlikely that, after Thrune rose to power, someone would have funded a non-asmodean church repair. Perhaps, it would be best to find something else. As far as I can suggest, an iomedaean mentor is something very difficult to find in Cheliax nowadays. Maybe your PC has discovered a heraldic book about his family glory days, and he found that many of them were Iomedae's faithful and decided to learn more about his faith, acquiring a copy of the goddess' holy book. Perhaps, one of his ancestors might have been one of Iomedae's trusted comrades when the goddes was still a human and he sees this tie to Iomedae as one of the few things he knows about his family. You will have the chance to meet a suitable mentor in game anyway, so it would be ok for your character to have known Iomedae only by her book and willing to learn more about her faith.
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CRUNCH
With regards to build, what do you guys prefer (longsword is a given for a paladin of Iomedae):a) longsword, heavy shield, power attack, cleave or
b) longsword, light, spiked shield, two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash.
CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER PCs
Not sure yet.I don't see any connection with the conjurer. In fact, they may be at odds until the air is cleared between them.
Have ties with rogue and/or cleric from either past work (he's a stonemason) or the work he does in the church/orphanage.
Thoughts?
I think the two-weapon fighting build sounds interesting. While smiting evil, you'll be quite formidable. The main drawbacks would be not having a lot of feats to work with, and having to invest quite a bit into Dexterity. Manageable for a human, but potentially difficult all the same. It depends on how we're generating stats. You'd definitely have to make some sacrifices.
I expect your paladin will not think very highly of my conjurer once he's aware of her abilities. However, I think she'll quite like him! Or at least, she'll respect his noble heritage, and maybe think that his idealistic goodness is simply a phase until he proves himself. I certainly won't be neglecting my ranks in Knowledge (Nobility), so maybe she'll be able to tell him more about his family.
Very good start Fabian. I've got only one suggestion concerning the way your PC has come to be instructed in his faith. It's very unlikely that, after Thrune rose to power, someone would have funded a non-asmodean church repair. Perhaps, it would be best to find something else. As far as I can suggest, an iomedaean mentor is something very difficult to find in Cheliax nowadays. Maybe your PC has discovered a heraldic book about his family glory days, and he found that many of them were Iomedae's faithful and decided to learn more about his faith, acquiring a copy of the goddess' holy book. Perhaps, one of his ancestors might have been one of Iomedae's trusted comrades when the goddes was still a human and he sees this tie to Iomedae as one of the few things he knows about his family. You will have the chance to meet a suitable mentor in game anyway, so it would be ok for your character to have known Iomedae only by her book and willing to learn more about her faith.
I like that idea! So he somehow unearthed a heraldic book about his past and how it was tied to Iomedae. He then has some sort of epiphany and acquires a copy of the The Acts of Iomedae and gobbles up all the information he can get. But he is eager for more.
As long as there is mentor in the AP, then the above would work.
I think I'll go with light shield and longsword with the two-weapon fighting feat. Especially if using lay on hands with a heavy shield would force me to drop my sword (I never realized that). So that's settled then.
@Iff: maybe I can have my PC work or volunteer at the orphanage where you were raised...
@mechaPoet: having knowledge about nobility would certainly endear yourself to my PC so that's probably a great way to make a connection. Hey, how about if my search for my family's past somehow led me to your conjurer who lends my PC a book where his family features prominently. I guess at that point, I don't have to know about your devil-binding side job.
Thoughts?
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I think I'll go with light shield and longsword with the two-weapon fighting feat. Especially if using lay on hands with a heavy shield would force me to drop my sword (I never realized that). So that's settled then.
...
@mechaPoet: having knowledge about nobility would certainly endear yourself to my PC so that's probably a great way to make a connection. Hey, how about if my search for my family's past somehow led me to your conjurer who lends my PC a book where his family features prominently. I guess at that point, I don't have to know about your devil-binding side job.
Casting a spell or doing anything that requires a free hand can't be done with a heavy shield. With a light shield, you can hold things, so the idea is: pass your weapon to your shield hand as a free action > use your free hand to do whatever > free action to pass your weapon back into your main hand. Using lay on hands on yourself shouldn't require anything like that, though, since you're never not touching your own hands.
As far as helping you find your family history, that sounds like a great way for our characters to get acquainted!
Giuseppe: I know you list it in the Character Creation Document but is the Westcrown Gazeeter, found in the Book 1 of the AP, character knowledge or player knowledge?
Do our PCs know that info or is that player knowledge to come up with a better background?
I've gone ahead and made an alias for the campaign. The avatar doesn't really fit what I had in mind, but it'll have to do; it was the best I could find. The character's name is something I'll have to try on for a few days, to see whether I'll like it in the long run. I tried to go for a last name that invoked a bit of 'showmanship'.
The alias also contains the contours of my stats, but as written there, everything is still in flux. Skill points are tight and I'd like to spend some of them to flesh out the character. We'll have to work out between us who will cover which skills. The same holds for campaign traits, sort of.
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For the nobility, I see from the readings that there are several old noble houses in Westcrown. Are any of these appropriate to choose from for my background? Or should I invent my own family name for a fallen noble house?
Iff: for skills, I'm going to be picking up knowledge skills, Spellcraft, and probably some social skills if I have the ranks - likely bluff or intimidate rather than diplomacy.