I just ordered the print version of the Pathfinder beta version rpg. There are just too many good reviews on the pathfinder rpg products to pass this up and ive trusted the people at paizo for years in their customer service and excellent products. I got 4E while i was in Army training and it frankly seems lame and i played 3rd edition and 3.5 since it first came out. So im gonna put my hand into Pathfinder as a second rpg to dabble in while my D6 Fantasy campaign is resting. I love old-school DnD as 2nd edition has always been my favorite edition and what started me roleplaying, and the Pathfinder rpg seems like good old-school swords and sorcery. Am i right in this assumption?
I always preferred 3e over 2e, because of the rules, which are, in my opinion, so much better.
3e still has some areas it can be improved on, and PF RPG has been doing a good job so far of improving on them.
Pathfinder RPG is still basically like 3e, and is meant to be a revision to 3e rules, just like 3.5e was. Things mostly work as they did before, there are no really fundamental changes.
To summarise the changes:
Races: many races got a number of new abilities, usually to bolster them in their classical roles. For example, elves now get some boons that help them be wizards. One change is that all races (including half-orcs) now have a net +2 to ability scores. For example, elves get +2 dex, -2 con (as before), but also +2 int; humans and half-elves get +2 to whatever they want. Another is that all races can now choose between 2 favoured classes (and humans/half-elves can choose any one class). Instead of avoiding XP penalties for multiclassing (which has been done away with - multiclass however you want!), favoured classes grant you a small boon (1 extra HP or extra skill point) per level.
Classes: There's some general changes (like marrying HD to BAB: weak - like wizard - is d6, medium - like rogue - is d8 and strong - like fighter - is d10, with the barbarian being the d12 exception here. Other than that, a lot of the classes got some boosts to make the classes more balanced against each other. Beyond that, many classes now get to choose among several abilities, so you can customise the classes further, or at least get more abilities, so there are no "blank levels". Finally, most classes have some incentive to keep playing them to the end - usually a powerful "cap-stone" ability gained at level 20.
Skills: The skill system has undergone a simplification: You don't get x4 skill points on 1st level any more, and max ranks for a skill is now equal to your class level. This goes for class skills and cross-class skills, so the old half-ranks and calculations about max rank are gone. Class skills you have ranks in get you a +3 bonus (which brings you to the old values for class skills). If a skill is class skill for any of your classes, it is class skill for your character.
Beyond that, a lot of skills have been consolidated to get a slimmer skill list. For example, Gather Information is now part of Diplomacy, and Hide and Move Silently are now Perception (which also incorporates the other senses)
Feats: The big change is that you get more of them: You gain a feat at every odd level (1st, 3rd, 5th...). A lot of feats have changed (though I must say that a couple of them are really not to my liking and I'll keep using the 3e versions). In addition, there are a number of new feats in there.
Combat: The biggest change: The diverse mechanics for different manoeuvres used in combat - grapple, bullrush, disarm, trip, overrun, sunder - have been replaced with one universal mechanic: Combat Manoeuvres. Every character has a Combat Manoeuvre Bonus (CMB) which he rolls against a DC determined by the enemy's CMB, and if he succeeds in that check, he'll accomplish his goal, be that getting the enemy off his feet, getting his sword out of his hands, restraining him, or whatever.
Turn undead has also been changed to Channel Energy, which damages undead and heals the living (if positive) or vice versa (if negative). The old turn mechanic is gone (and good riddance, if you ask me - it's one of the few things I had to look up even after years)
Magic: Schools (for specialist wizards) and domains (for clerics - and now, in a limited fashion, even for druids, if they choose to) work differently now. In addition to granting fixed spells as bonus spells at specific levels, they also grant one at will ability at first level and some other special powers.
Also, sorcerers get something similar to this: Bloodlines. Every sorcerer chooses a bloodline and gets bloodline powers, bloodline bonus feats, and bonus known spells.
Spells: A number of spells have been adjusted. There are some common themes here: Immunity spells (death ward, mind blank) now only grant a bonus to saves against those things; death spells deal damage, albeit massive damage, instead of outright slaying; and some of the most powerful damage spells have secondary effects now (the two I can think of right now are firestorm - which sets targets on fire - and polar ray - which drains dex).
There's a new subschool: Transmutation [polymorph] and the old polymorph spells have been replaced by a number of spells that allow specific creature types in specific sizes (like medium dragons or tiny to huge animals). They don't give you a carte blanche for any abilities and powers the target might have. Instead, they state what abilities you can potentially get from the transformation, and how strong. Also, you don't get the critter's ability scores anymore, but a fixed set of modifiers depending on your spell. Wildshape uses these new spells as a basis
One thing of note is the Cleric's Triumvirate: Divine Favour, Divine Power, Righteous Might: RM has been weakened a bit (there's a dex penalty now, which makes sense for a size boost), and the new Divine Power's bonuses no longer stack with Divine Favour. DP no longer changes your BAB, but gives you a flat bonus to attack and damage (+1 per 3 caster levels) and an extra attack (that works like haste and doesn't stack with haste)
Running the Game: XP tables have been changed (by necessity, since they cannot use the old tables in the 3e books, but the numbers work out the same), but there's now 3 progressions: Fast (like 3e's progressions), medium and slow (where characters take longer to level up)
There's more, but those are the things I feel are most important. I like most of the changes, since previously weak or boring choices are now stronger and more interesting, while a couple of classes that were too strong (cleric and druid) got toned down a bit.
Note that the game's not finished yet - we're in Beta Test Phase right now. That means the final game will be different. And our Input can make a difference! (I had more than one of my posts on the boards replied by the designers with things like: "this sounds interesting, I'll definetly look into it" or even with "I don't like the way things were, and your ideas are pretty close to my own thoughts. Expect something very much like this to be in the final game". And I'm really not the only one with such posts - not by a long shot.
Got any great ideas about how to make the 3e better (without making it a different game)? Don't hesistate to post them!
Note that the Pathfinder Beta Rules are available as a free PDF (complete with very detailed bookmarks - right down to every skill, feat, spell, and magic item). It's the same as the print version. Also, there are a couple of web enhancements so far, available as PDFs, too: One with additional spells and magic items, one with Prestige Classes. There's also a number of board threads by Jason Bulmahn where he gives us some updates and extras, many of which may very well make it into the final version: A new version of rage powers for Barbarians (doing away with the point costs from Beta and simply being usable one per rage round, if they're not always active), a rework of the Paladin (mainly tweaking smite evil and lay on hands), as well as a number of feats, many of which are especially for fighters.
These changes sound very promising! Im pumped to get the beta playtest. What about the fluff? Does the actual setting have that good old-school fantasy feel?
These changes sound very promising! Im pumped to get the beta playtest. What about the fluff? Does the actual setting have that good old-school fantasy feel?
Note that the RPG is almost completely independant from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. All the book will have are the 20 major deities from Pathfinder (because they can't use the PHB ones) and maybe some minor stuff (like a couple of Pathfinder Chronicles weapons like the starknife).
But YES! The Pathfinnder Chronicles have the good old-school feel, while at the same time feeling refreshingly new!
Sick of goody-two-shoes drow who neglect their evildoings for nekkid frolicks in the forest? Pathfinder Drow are the real deal: thoroughly evil, demon-worshipping bastards!
Sick of settings that are engineered to spare a timid 5-year-olds any shocks? The Chronicles, with the setting books, adventure modules, and Adventure Paths, have enough mature themes to make it seem like a world that actually needs heroes rather than cartoon characters.
Also, the Pathfinder Chronicles support a wide range of play styles: You can play classical fantasy, high fantasy, urban fantasy, horror, crazy technology stuff, frontier region exploring, chthonic explorations of realms that are way beyond the human mind to grasp, vikings, pirates, whatever you want.
The races all have their niche and are a great combination of the classics with new elements to make them seem at once fondly familiar and excitingly new. And that goes double for gnomes! Oh yes! Gnomes aren't just beardless dwarves here!
And this goes for monsters, too. Wanna have interesting goblins? Pathfinder Chronicles is your world! There's a book - Classic Monsters Revisited - that has the most awesome descriptions of goblins, ogres, trolls, orcs, bugbears etc (10 monsters in total). For an example about goblins, go here (look for "Reinventing The Wheel").
There will be follow-up books, the ones about Dragons and about Dungeon Denizens already announced and in the making.
I generally suggest reading the blog, as it has lots of tidbits of information about the setting, as well as a lot of awesome art!
So the actual Pathfinder RPG product wont have any setting-specific material? As a standalone rpg I figured it would also include the campaign setting. Im on a very tight budget and i dont want to buy a bunch of other books and guides. That's why i dont like DnD! Im not into the continual barrage of material every month. I really liked Arcana Evolved because it was a standalone ruleset and setting in one single book. Will pathfinder rpg be like that or will i also need to get pathfinder chronicles products to supplement it?
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So the actual Pathfinder RPG product wont have any setting-specific material? As a standalone rpg I figured it would also include the campaign setting. Im on a very tight budget and i dont want to buy a bunch of other books and guides. That's why i dont like DnD! Im not into the continual barrage of material every month. I really liked Arcana Evolved because it was a standalone ruleset and setting in one single book. Will pathfinder rpg be like that or will i also need to get pathfinder chronicles products to supplement it?
You'll need to get either the Gazeteer or the Campaign setting (which is mostly a souped up Gazeteer, although I'd recommend it as the extra detail is always invaluable for DMs) to play in Golarion. The other Chronicles and Companions lines are added detail that are great quality but not necessary to play. And the products Paizo have released so far have been much more fluff heavy than crunch heavy so they shouldn't be needed to create a character as much.
Also, Pathfinder is intended to be a replacement for the out of print 3.5 Players Handbook and DMG, which take up enough pages between themselves. Adding in a third setting book would make it even more of a back breaking monster. You can already use it as an improvised weapon as it's about the same size as the Ptolus book.
Thirdly, a creature compendium is released for Pathfinder in July. That would be the Monster Manual equivalent and should probably also be considered for purchase.
So the actual Pathfinder RPG product wont have any setting-specific material? As a standalone rpg I figured it would also include the campaign setting. Im on a very tight budget and i dont want to buy a bunch of other books and guides. That's why i dont like DnD! Im not into the continual barrage of material every month. I really liked Arcana Evolved because it was a standalone ruleset and setting in one single book. Will pathfinder rpg be like that or will i also need to get pathfinder chronicles products to supplement it?
They're pitching in to save the Open Gaming movement. It is a rather large favor they are doing for other OGL developers, trying to ensure that some version of the 3.5 rules stays in print, and legal to license.
I think the best introduction to the Pathfinder setting (which is great, BTW) is to play the Adventure Paths. I started with Runelords in PDF form, and I can honestly say I don't need anything else right now. After playing a single issue of an AP — which includes new monsters, an adventure, items, fiction, geography and primers or the dieties etc — you'll have a good idea of whether you want to continue on in Pathfinder's setting (probably you will).
Does the Pathfinder RPG book support world creation and making your own campaign setting using these rules? Or does it assume you have a copy of the gazetteer or the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting?
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Does the Pathfinder RPG book support world creation and making your own campaign setting using these rules? Or does it assume you have a copy of the gazetteer or the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting?
It's like standard D&D. So it supports homebrew worlds. The only official Pathfinder world references are the deities and their domains, just like in the standard Players Handbook. So it's up to you. You can use the rules to play Greywhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Pathfinder, homebrew, or any other world I've not mentioned.
If you want to play in Golarion, you'd need another book. If you want to continue an existing campaign, or start on another world, these rules allow it. They're intended to be setting neutral as much as possible.
So the actual Pathfinder RPG product wont have any setting-specific material? As a standalone rpg I figured it would also include the campaign setting.
The RPG will already be 600 pages or so. If you add a campaign setting, you'll end up with 800+ pages - which would be even more expensive.
That's why i dont like DnD! Im not into the continual barrage of material every month.
It's not as bad as that: You can get by with the Campaign Setting, or even just the Gazetteer. You don't need the other books.
And It's one of the parts I love about D&D/Pathfinder: you're not tied to a single game world. You can make your own, or buy one out of dozens of premade worlds. Sure, it does cost extra, which is not for everyone, but there's other games that don't do this.
Note that you can use whatever setting you want with PF RPG! Pathfinder RPG is not tied to Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.
If you have old FR stuff, run that. Or Eberron. You could probably even use Diamond Throne. Or make your own.
Does the Pathfinder RPG book support world creation and making your own campaign setting using these rules? Or does it assume you have a copy of the gazetteer or the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting?
As I said: You're totally not bound to the Pathfinder Chronicles game world. Just like with D&D, you can use your own, or take any of the pre-existing D&D worlds - or adapt something else to D&D.
I don't know whether they will have detailed information about world-building, but I guess there will be enough to supplement one's imagination to set it all into PF rules.
That having been said: The Pathfinder Chronicles are awesome. After wizards butchered the Forgotten Realms, it became my favourite setting.
Golarion is very much like Forgotten Realms reimagined from the ground up, with the emphasis on being played instead of what the designers played.