If the group ever move through this passage, I am planning a point soon where there is some downtime, it might be a good point to introduce a new character.
What do you mean "if" we move through this passage? Don't you mean "when" we move through this passage? ;-)
Welcome back, Arctaris... glad you're feeling better.
And ADMAE, I have no words... you know what I mean... Wishing you all the best in these tough times.
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I managed to figure out what the password was, although I no longer have access to the email address for the account.
I do have the time and, barring an kicks in the teeth from life, I would be very happy to rejoin the game. I'm open to introducing another character (a rogue-type character seems to be lacking), or taking the reins of Alton once more, as the group and Brashen prefers.
I hear you there Rags; I've tried to get at least some of my old group back together, but it just doesn't seem to work out.
Cool! I'll give Brashen first refusal in regards to the character, since I invited him to join the game and take over Alton.
He's a bit slow at checking the discussion thread, so I might need to tap his shoulder elsewhere...
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What do you mean "if" we move through this passage? Don't you mean "when" we move through this passage? ;-)
If the group ever move through this passage, I am planning a point soon where there is some downtime, it might be a good point to introduce a new character.
Just that it's taken a few days to move a couple of feet ... I think all these traps have made you all (perhaps justifiably) paranoid.
Thanks TB; I've missed adventuring with Keildrithe.
And yeah, if Brashen wants to continue playing Alton, I'm fine with that. I'm happy just to be playing again.
Should have checked the discussion thread earlier, with lots of news, good and bad happening.
Welcome back Arctaris, would be great to have you back in the game either under control of Alton or as a new addition to the party.
And I was very sorry to read your news ADMAE; I can only imagine how you must be feeling at the moment.
Just a reminder that I will be away, without internet access, from September 13-18. Also, the last two weeks of September are going to be very hectic, work-wise, with long work days/nights. So my posting may be erratic, possibly even non-existent during that period.
Moth, feel free to DM NPC as required!
Cheers!
What's the general consensus on my playing Alton again? Should I start thinking out a new character (which I'm fine with, if Brashen prefers)?
I am away on my buying trip for a few days, so DMPC me until I return on Tuesday.
That's what I've been thinking, and as I've said I'm perfectly fine playing a new character; I've been tossing ideas around in my head and I have a concept for a rogue that might be fun to play.
Heh, I'M just glad to see you back Arc! :)
Thanks man, its good to be back. I've missed this group and the game in general a lot.
Hey sorry for the lag.
I would think it might make more sense for Arctaris to take over Alton again, but really its your choice. Id be happy either way.
I enjoyed playing Alton, but I also think that the concept that I have could be fun, so I'm really fine with either option.
Since we seem to be in need of a rogue, I was thinking of something of a former agent of the church, probably trained as a spy and assassin who had gone rogue on a field assignment. As I envision her now, sort of a shy and somewhat awkward character who I think could bring some interesting interactions to the party (good interesting, not disruptive psycopath elements xP). I will type up a more complete version of that character concept so that the group can decide what they'd prefer, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow, after I turn in the paper that I should be working on right now.
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I enjoyed playing Alton, but I also think that the concept that I have could be fun, so I'm really fine with either option.
Since we seem to be in need of a rogue, I was thinking of something of a former agent of the church, probably trained as a spy and assassin who had gone rogue on a field assignment. As I envision her now, sort of a shy and somewhat awkward character who I think could bring some interesting interactions to the party (good interesting, not disruptive psycopath elements xP). I will type up a more complete version of that character concept so that the group can decide what they'd prefer, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow, after I turn in the paper that I should be working on right now.
Sounds cool mate.
Oh and good luck with your paper.
Thanks, the paper and associated presentation turned out pretty well, surprisingly enough XD
Here's my basic concept for the rogue. I'll flesh it out more if I play her instead of Alton.
Personality Anastasia is quiet and rather shy. She isn't terribly socially adept in most situations, leading her to feel awkward, out of place, and contributing to her lack of confidence in anything that doesn't involve quietly killing someone or gathering information. She tries to remain a decent person, despite her guilt over some of her actions.
In her dreams, Anastasia remembers her father's kind face at her bed-side, singing her to sleep with his lullaby while he watched over her with tired, sad eyes. Those were the days, before her father died under mysterious circumstances while away from home. After that, the young girl experienced a dreary childhood of being shuffled from Artonite orphanage to orphanage, always living as the quiet loner and observer who never quite fit in. When the masked Artonite priests offered the shy girl a chance to join their order and get out of the orphanages, she jumped at it.
And thus began her training as one of the Church's Inquisitors, ruthless interrogators, assassins, and secret instruments of the Church's will. Years went by as she learned the art of espionage and assassination, to which she took readily with her quiet and observant nature. Finally, she was dispatched to the Lichford region to aid the local Church in any way necessary, which lead her attention to a case involving a group of particularly dangerous heretics and criminals who had repeatedly escaped capture and defied the Church's will. The more she learned of their plight, the more the junior Inquisitor's doubts over the morality of her position grew, and upon questioning one of the surviving troops involved in the most recent unsuccessful attempt to apprehend the outlaws, her sympathy with the increasingly heroic sounding outlaws combined with her guilt over some of the actions performed in the name of Arton drove her to a crisis of faith in the Church. And so the young woman has sought out this party of outlaws, wishing to confront them and in doing so, resolve her crisis of faith.
Thats my basic idea right now; just let me know your thoughts on it and whether or not I will be playing Alton again.
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Sounds awesome Arctaris, go for it.
As for Alton, it sounds like both of you are ok with either playing him or playing another character, so if you’ve got a concept you’re happy with, feel free to develop it and make the new character.
Also, we were going to switch to the Pathfinder rules at the next level up – would this suit you?
Cool, I'll probably edit the backstory and put a profile together for her within the next couple of days (by the way, when should I be ready to introduce her?)
The final, printed version of the rule set? I don't think I have anything beyond one of their pdf playtest editions, due to a lack of spare cash as of late. I'm fine with the alteration either way, but I may need a little assistance leveling up if I don't have the pertinent book.
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Cool, I'll probably edit the backstory and put a profile together for her within the next couple of days (by the way, when should I be ready to introduce her?)
The final, printed version of the rule set? I don't think I have anything beyond one of their pdf playtest editions, due to a lack of spare cash as of late. I'm fine with the alteration either way, but I may need a little assistance leveling up if I don't have the pertinent book.
It's all available for free online here.
You can also buy the core rule book as a PDF for $10 I think. The hard copy book is pretty expensive.
Ok, awesome. What level of character should I create, and when should I have it ready?
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Go for level 3 for the moment, once the group leaves the tomb and gets to a safe point or just makes camp I’ll look at xp and what level everyone is and maybe get you to adjust this.
I’d say we’re still at least a week or two (quite probably more) away from the point I would want to introduce a new character, and everyone else has time to level up and / or convert. Take your time.
Damn...and I just cleared my level 3 rogue's profile not 20 minutes ago >.<
Alright, I won't lose any sleep over it for the time being. And speaking of sleep...
Hey Moth, Laithe's XP is 5,450 following the level drain.
XPs on Keildrithe's sheet should be correct and up to date (did not suffer a level drain).
Hey Moth, Laithe's XP is 5,450 following the level drain.
Ditto.
What are you going to do with EXP when you swap to Paizo Pathfinder, fast, normal or slow?
Do you want us to start conversion now, or at the camp, I am being a bit dense.
Altons at 8500
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Hey Moth, Laithe's XP is 5,450 following the level drain.Ditto.
What are you going to do with EXP when you swap to Paizo Pathfinder, fast, normal or slow?
Do you want us to start conversion now, or at the camp, I am being a bit dense.
We'll probably use slow progression, but I'll give xp based on 3.5 first (soon!), then everyone work out if you level up, we'll convert to Pathfinder at whatever level your character would be in 3.5 after getting this xp, then work out what your new XP total should be ... if that makes sense?
You can start now if you like (might want to wait a short while until I give xp though), although I am planning to post some conversion notes for those who might be less familiar with PAthfinder (probably Ash and Brash) or for those with trickier bits and bobs to convert. Kajetan will probably be relatively straightforward though.
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For those without a copy of the Pathfinder rules, the full System Reference Document is here. You can download a 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide here (if I got this link right).
If you follow the conversion guide closely it tells you pretty much everything you need to change if you are changing from Core 3.5. Non-core stuff gets a bit trickier in some cases …
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Alright, I don’t think Kajetan has anything too tricky going on. Let’s assume for simplicity’s sake that his constitution damage has been healed by the time we really get going again.
He’ll pick up an ability increase (+2) of your choice (and don’t forget that he’ll also get his fourth level ability increase back again if you took it back when he lost a level – that goes for everyone who suffered level drain), and will get some extra hit points (and some more hit points and/or skill points depending on how you choose for favoured class).
Check that all your spells are still right as far as level and such (I think they are, not too many changes to low level spells). You can take a bonded item if you like (let’s pretend you had it all along or you can make it an item you have found at some point during your adventures) OR if you prefer a familiar we can work one in to the story very soon (and you will get it for free, no cost involved).
Don’t forget your new school powers.
I think the only tricky thing is the bonus feat you have (the fey bloodline). You can either keep it and get the bonus spells as we worked out before OR you can ditch it (I’ll allow you to keep the first and second level spells you already gained though) and replace it with another feat or with two traits.
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The above goes for anyone who now finds they have a feat that doesn’t gel too well with the Pathfinder rules. Feel free to choose a new appropriate feat (just let me know what it is) or you might instead want to choose two traits. You’ll find a link to download the PDF document describing traits and how they work here.
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Alton is one of the trickiest ones, as he is a swashbuckler, a non-core class that doesn’t have a direct equivalent in Pathfinder. You might have a bit of rebuilding to do.
Brash, you have two real options – you can either change to a Core Pathfinder class (or multiclass); fighter, rogue or fighter/rogue probably make the most sense, but something like ranger could possibly work too (after all, Alton is a two-weapon fighter with good combat abilities and quite a lot of skills – that could actually work quite well).
OR I can post a fan conversion of the swashbuckler to Pathfinder rules. There are a couple floating around, I think they are quite good in some cases (there is one in particular I am thinking of) but it potentially changes quite a lot about how the swashbuckler abilities work, so it will still probably require quite lot of rebuilding.
What would you prefer?
In any case, as a halfling you get an additional +2 bonus to charisma, and you might want to check the other halfling racial traits in the Pathfinder SRD to see if anything else has changed.
I think (this is a big I think):
The advanced players guide has an option to create a swashbuckler as one of the class options.
Off the top of my head I think it is a rogue. Let me see if I can find the correct section.
I am well up to speed on the Pathfinder rules as it is all we use now (and we only play core rules, despite a few of us having the Advanced Players Guide).
With regards to the bonus feat:
Fey Bloodline (B) (Does not work unless I take a level of Sorcerer, but I will add the spells to my book when I am entitled to learn them as part of my normal allotment)
You are descended from a Fey creature, including a Dryad, Grig, Pixie, etc.
Pre: Able to cast Impromptu Arcane spells and Able to summon a Familiar
1. You cannot learn spells that create or control undead. These spells are removed from your spell list.
2. Add the following to your Known spells:
1. Detect Secret Doors 2. Glitterdust 3. Tongues 4. Hallucinatory Terrain 5. Seeming 6. Mislead 7. Sequester 8. Otto’s Irresistible Dance 9. Wail of the Banshee
I am not getting any benefit from this feat at all, it is a relic from when the original creator of Kajetan started him as a sorcerer. All I have been doing is ensure that I select the relevant spells when I am entitled to. We kept it as the Fey part was heavily written into Kajetans back story, but to be fair I have not been role playing that part at all and instead concentrating on the thirst for knowledge angle.
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Nicolai will get his human +2 bonus to any one ability score, plus his bonus hit points or skill points for favoured class (assuming he chooses sorcerer – I don’t see why he wouldn’t!) and a bit of a hit point boost for going from d4s to d6 hit dice.
Things are probably pretty straight forward for Nicolai until we get to feats – there it gets complicated.
He has a bonus feat that gives him celestial bloodline. He also has a feat that gives him a familiar (not quite sure why this is listed as a feat, isn’t it a standard sorcerer ability in 3.5 to get a familiar? Or did we swap that ability out with something else, then give the familiar back as a feat … not sure …).
Anyway, feats that give bloodlines have been replaced by Bloodline class abilities in Pathfinder. So, you can either lose the Celestial Bloodline feat and all benefits associated with it, and replace this with the Celestial Bloodline class ability and all benefits associated with that. Keep the Summon Familiar feat (I assume this is a non-core 3.5 feat?) to retain Wijk-An.
OR, choose the Arcane Bloodline (which has arcane bond as a class feature – so you can retain Wijk-An that way), ditching your Summon Familiar feat, and keep your Celestial Bloodline as a feat, along with all the benefits that this 3.5 feat grants you (I don’t suppose its impossible for a sorcerer to have two bloodlines…)
Spell Hand, Sudden Still and Celestial Sorcerer Lance are not core 3.5 feats, nor do they have a Pathfinder equivalent (as far as I know), but I’m fine with you retaining them as-is if you like.
Eschew Materials is a sorcerer bonus feat in Pathfinder.
So, as you potentially have a lot of feat changes, let’s review how many feats the new and improved Pathfinderised 5th level Nicolai should have:
At first level: he gets 4 feats or 3 feats and two traits (one for first level, one for being human, Eschew Materials as a bonus sorcerer feat and one feat or the two traits as a bonus for this campaign); at third level he gets one feat; and at fifth level he gets one feat. So that is 6 feats or 5 feats and 2 traits.
Other than that, check your spells known and spells per day and I think you’re pretty right.
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I think (this is a big I think):
The advanced players guide has an option to create a swashbuckler as one of the class options.
Off the top of my head I think it is a rogue. Let me see if I can find the correct section.
I don't have the APG, but if you could check it out and let us know, that could help!
With regards to the bonus feat: Fey Bloodline
I am not getting any benefit from this feat at all, it is a relic from when the original creator of Kajetan started him as a sorcerer. All I have been doing is ensure that I select the relevant spells when I am entitled to. We kept it as the Fey part was heavily written into Kajetans back story, but to be fair I have not been role playing that part at all and instead concentrating on the thirst for knowledge angle.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Go ahead a ditch it, feel free to replace it with a more relevant feat or two traits.
I think even with Kajetan's orginal player that background choice did not really become a feature of the character, it was quite hidden.
Swashbuckler:
A paragon of mobile swordplay, the swashbuckler is a rogue who focuses almost exclusively on honing her skill at arms and perfecting daring acrobatic moves and elaborate flourishes that border on performance.
Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, the swashbuckler may select one martial weapon to add to her list of weapon proficiencies. In addition, she may take the combat trick rogue talent up to two times. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Daring (Ex): At 3rd level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 morale bonus on Acrobatics checks and saving throws against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels beyond 3rd. This ability replaces trap sense.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the swashbuckler archetype: offensive defense, positioning attack, powerful sneak, and weapon training*.
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the swashbuckler archetype: crippling strike*, entanglement of blades, and redirect attack.
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Swashbuckler:
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks ADMAE.
So Brash, that is an option for you for Alton – convert to rogue and then swap out the indicated class features in the spoiler above to create a swashbuckler archetype rogue. Of course, a rogue isn’t going to have the base attack bonus or hit dice of the 3.5 swashbuckler class, but sneak attack (which in Pathfinder works on a much wider range of opponents than in 3.5) and those sweet rogue talents can go some way to compensating for this.
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Keildrithe, you’ve got your +2 to any ability score, your favoured class bonus (presumably for your bard levels) and a fair few changes to how your bardic class abilities work.
You’re the only one in the group who has chosen to multi-class so far. One of the state goals to the changes to classes in Pathfinder was to make staying in one class (rather than multi-classing) a more viable and fun option. As such, if you’d prefer to swap your ranger level back to bard now that we’re changing rules sets you are welcome (entirely up to you).
Your feats will require some changes: Remember Toughness works a little better now in Pathfinder. Negotiator didn’t make it into Pathfinder, but I see no reason you couldn’t use – I’ll allow it, unless you want to swap it for Alertness or Persuasive. Extra Music can be swapped for Extra Performance. I can’t recall what Focused Performer does – you can keep it if you like (assuming it still makes sense in Pathfinder) although it may be at odds thematically with your Versatile Performer bardic class feature … swap it out if you prefer. Remember that Track is a bonus feat from ranger, so if you do decide to go full bard you will lose this one (unless you want to take it as your fifth level feat anyway of course).
You’ll need to reduce your number of 0 level spells known. I can’t remember the details of Songbird or Minor Disguise, you might need to check that they still work ok in Pathfinder if you wish to keep them.
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The major non-core thing with Laithe is of course his Shapeshift variant class feature. In terms of converting and continuity of story, the simplest thing would probably be just to retain this completely as is for Pathfinder. It replaces the Nature Bond and Wildshape class features of the Pathfinder druid.
Ash you might want to take a look at the new Wildshape (and animal companion) rules before you make up your mind. The biggest downside to wildshape for you now would be that you can only do it once per day at fourth level, far less than your current unlimited shapeshift. At fourth level, wildshape would also not improve your combat ability as much as shapeshift does, but it does give you more versatility of form and other abilities. Of course it improves as you go up levels (as does shapeshift). If you did decide to ditch shapeshift, you could also pick up an animal companion somewhere along the way … having said all that it probably fits Laithe’s character, background and story so far better if he keeps shapeshift.
You’ll get a +2 to any one ability score, and favoured class bonus (hit points or skill points). You’ll need to rebuild your skills.
Feats are probably all ok, Toughness has improved in Pathfinder. Quick Reconnoiter is not in Pathfinder, but no reason you couldn’t use it as it is as far as I can see.
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Pharris has levels in the ‘Generic Warrior’ class from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana. French Wolf, it is up to you, you can either rebuild her as a Pathfinder fighter (or some other martial class such as ranger if you think it more appropriate) or it seems very easy to convert the Generic Warrior to a Pathfinder equivalent – essentially it is a fighter and should get all the new Pathfinder fighter class abilities, but, as a Generic Warrior you are not proficient in heavy armour, you choose your class skills and choose your good saving throw (but yours is Fort anyway). I presume your Generic Warrior levels would count as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
Depending on what you do with class, yours should be a straight forward update. Don’t forget favoured class, +2 intelligence for elf (and the impact that will have on skills).
Whether you change your class or not (and this really goes for everyone), I have found it far easier just to rebuild skills from scratch when converting. Remember also that skill synergies no longer exist in Pathfinder.
Here is my level 4 Hit Points:
Woot! To coin a phrase.
With my +2 at 1st and +1 per level after (per the conversion rules) that gives me a huge 21Hit points.
That is with out any from favoured class if I decide to go down that route!
No longer a wimp!
For some reason I have 2 bonus feats listed, but no human feat. So the fey feat can just be dropped.
q1. When you mention allowing us to take 2 traits, which ones are you suggesting? There are the ones from 3.5 which had an advantage and a disadvantage and there are the ones available as a free pdf on the Paizo site, which are effectively half feats? Or can we choose from both lists?
Kajetan is finished apart from one feat/two traits, the favoured class choice and extra languages.
Changes:
1) Hit points go to 1d6, so I gain 4 HP by 3rd level and rolled a 6 above, so 21HP at 4th.
2) I now need two opposition schools, so I have chosen to add Abjuration to Evocation.
3) I have decided that the arcane bond makes more sense for Kajetan as it helps to keep him distinct from Nicolai. I have yet to choose a bonded item as my initial thought was Journal, but then I realised it is not on the list. I will now probably go for amulet, as this could of been hidden under clothing all this time.
4) Swapped Spell Mastery Feat for Eschew Materials, as it makes more sense for the characters back ground of being able to cast spells.
5) +2 for being human went into intelligence.
q2. I currently speak Lorin, Atuscan, Halfling, Karandic. I should know another one just because of the raised intelligence from 1st level and I can learn another one at 4th when I increase my intelligence. I have added Thuringian from the starting list of Lorin languages, but are there any suggestions for the 6th language please?
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I appreciate all the effort you have put into this converting Mothman. I'll try to do this justice in the next few days but I'm pretty stacked out.
Pharris is undergoing a crisis of confidence in her fighting skills so I'd like to give this a bit of thought, especially as I had planned her to take the route of Generic Warrior with sneak attack. The problem for me is that the party needs a front-line fighter. Hmm.
Cheers
Grrr! Rassin-Frassin' Post-Eater-Monster!
:P
Short version, I will start transposing Nicholai asap.
I had a thought as to where I might take the character, but it is still in transit, (I have had other ideas since we've been playing) and can/will drop any non-PFG core feats/spells/etc if you wish.
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I appreciate all the effort you have put into this converting Mothman. I'll try to do this justice in the next few days but I'm pretty stacked out.
Pharris is undergoing a crisis of confidence in her fighting skills so I'd like to give this a bit of thought, especially as I had planned her to take the route of Generic Warrior with sneak attack. The problem for me is that the party needs a front-line fighter. Hmm.
Cheers