Need help: NPC Champion of Irori


Advice


Trying to create an NPC monk/paladin Champion of Irori as a boss for my PCs. I used to have a pretty good grasp on this PrC -- there was a pretty good Guide a couple of years back -- but then they nerfed Crane Style and I sort of lost interest. But I think it's still really flavorful and I want to lay some smites on my evil PCs, so let's try it.

The PCs are 9th level and are pretty optimized. But the NPC will have allies and minions, so APL + 3 should be okay. That's 12th level. Human, 25 point build, NPC WBL.

As I said, my PCs are pretty optimized -- some really high ACs and DPRs -- so feel free to just munchkin the hell out of this. Bonus points if you can add some fun style chain so he can throw the PCs through walls or bull rush them or something.

Thanks very much in advance,

Doug M.


Here's a first try (using vanilla monk, not unchained). It's a start, but I'm pretty sure the hive-mind can do better.

Champion 0.1:
A 25 point build with racial and level boosts gives Str 16, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 14. He'll go Pal 2, Monk 3, CoI 7 with no other dips.

Heroic NPC gives me 21,000 to play with. Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 is 5,000, Headband of Mental Prowess +2 (Wis and Cha) is 10,000, and Ring of Ki Mastery is 10,000... it's cheating a bit but, hell, he's a boss.

Feats, he gets seven. The three Crane Style feats? Still good here? Then Osyluth Guile, it's just too good to pass up. (He has studied the evil ones in order to turn their techniques against them!) Weapon Focus (unarmed) and that leaves two. Open to suggestions here.

Now: on a plain vanilla attack, he'll flurry like a 10th level monk +8/+8/+3/+3. Add (+2 paladin BAB +3 Str +1 Amulet +1 WF) and that becomes +15/+15/+10/+10, for d10+4 damage. Not horrible, but no great shakes for a 12th level character. But smiting, now. Smiting, he hits at +18/+18/+13/+13 for d10+13. That's much better.

AC: 10 + 2 monk AC bonus +2 Dex +5 Wis is 19, which is pretty pathetic. But when smiting he gets another +3 against the smite target. And with the Crane Style feats and three ranks in acrobatics, he can boost his AC by +5 at the cost of taking a -1 on to hit rolls. With Osyluth Guile, he can boost that by another +3 against one target. So he can have AC 24 against everyone, and AC 30 against the smitee. He has a friendly spellcaster who can throw Shield, Haste, and Protection from Evil, so given a few moments to buff he'll have little trouble getting those up to 30/36.

In terms of saves, I'm seeing Fort +15 / Ref +12 / Will +18.

This doesn't actually seem overpowered but his ability to smite all the ding-dong day makes him an interesting foe for evil PCs. Thanks to the ring smiting only costs 1 ki point, and he has 10 ki points. So he's actually in decent shape for going toe-to-toe with evil melee types.

Hive mind? What think you?

Doug M.


[sfx: crickets] Well... I guess I can go with this build, but it seems like there's still a lot of room for improvement? Also, the CoI used to be a hot hot topic here, but in the last couple of years everyone seems to have lost interest. (You nerfed Crane Style, Paizo! You blew it all uuuuppp!)

So maybe it'll help to focus on some specific questions.

1) Has anyone tried a CoI build with an Unchained monk? Doesn't seem much different except you have to take one more monk level (because the Unchained gets Still Mind at 4th level instead of 3rd) and you're trading a slightly weaker will save for slightly better BAB.

2) Has anyone tried one with the Tortured Crusader? The TC uses Wis for his paladin powers instead of Cha, which makes a CoI build much less MADdy. The only drawback is that you need to take the second level of TC to get the attack/AC bonus, and it's not like taking a second level of paladin is going to cripple you. Also, you get a bunch of extra skill points (which you'll need) plus that cool Second Chance ability, which is basically a poor man's Contingency spell. And if you're playing Unchained, more points in Wis cancels out your Will save issue. Really, this look like pretty much pure win.

3) Okay, so what about styles? A CoI doesn't *need* to use styles, of course. But they're a fun cool thematic thing for a monk. Is Crane Style still worth taking? And if not, what else is out there that's worth our time?

Thanks in advance,

Doug M.


1 & 2: No I haven't.

With a sad AC snake style is a possibility. Against the action advantage of a full party it's not a big deal though. Snake fang/sidewind demonstrate swift action congestion, forget that idea.

Azata style might seem like you should be chaotic but it's not a requirement. Not that you care about azata style itself but azata mischief could be useful.

Crane style isn't good but it is possible.

Swordplay style with a temple sword might work. An unchained monk can flurry with one and a tortured crusader could afford the Int, though it makes you MAD again.


I think Serpent Style is consistently undervalued -- one of my PCs has been using it very effectively for a while now.

Azata style, huh. The problem I see here is that you need to eat an AoO to get that free trip, and the whole point of the build otherwise is to bounce around using Mobility (and, presumably, Acrobatics) and avoid AoOs. It's sort of self-contradictory. Which I guess makes thematic sense...

Swordplay style is actually quite good! Thank you! Yeah, the problem is definitely the &^$(%ing Combat Expertise feat tax. (I have not been following the playtesting but //oh man// I hope they got rid of that in Second Edition.) Funny thing is, the bonus here would stack with Osyluth Guile, allowing you to crank your AC into the stratosphere... if you could afford a 13 Int *and* a decent Cha bonus *and* still be a monk. Good fun if you have 30 build points to play with. Even without that, to go up this feat chain you need a 13 Int and you have to spend six feats. It's pretty nice once you get there, but a 12th level human will have expended all but one of his feat slots.

Doug M.

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