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I think one of the goals for PF2 was to make it easier for new players to learn the game and to create characters. After hours of reading, I've found this is not the case. I don't think there is any easy answer for this, but one thing I've found is that ancestral feats are an impediment to the character creation process for new players.
I've been going through character creation with two groups of people who are new to RPGs. I am not new to RPGs however and have been playing 40 years and Pathfinder since release.
One of the goals for PF2 was simplification and streamlining for people who were new to the game. I found that there are too many choices to make at 1st level and ancestral feats definitely contribute to that problem. I feel that it would be easier to be more like PF1 and just give default ancestral TRAITS based on the race and not give the player the choice. And for the more advanced player, have Ultimate Race where you can swap things in and out.
I also feel that Ancestral Feats should be much more front loaded.
I find it really strange for an ancestry to become more and more like that race as they level. Why would they get more elven (if anything they should be less)? It’s very strange to be gaining hereditary and biological traits, like dark vision, over time.
Finally, if you take a PF1 Elf and convert it to PF2 with the same traits, the elf would need to be level 13 to get the 4 feats that were given to the PF1 Elf at level 1. Level 13! This is true for all of the races. Why have the races been nerfed?
I guess basically what I’m saying is that I much prefer how races/ancestries were done in PF1. You had the basic options for new players and for advanced players you had Ultimate Race. It worked.
If we keep ancestral feats, can they be an advanced option where we only start getting them at level 5 and beyond?
Also, if you can’t use a General Feat to gain an Ancestral feat, could we called them something other than feats?
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I agree. I think there can be too much choice. I think ancestries should remain of the PF1 style with maybe some feats for L5 and above if you still required feats. The L5 feats and above should be decently powerful and thematic.
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I find it really strange for an ancestry to become more and more like that race as they level. Why would they get more elven (if anything they should be less)? It’s very strange to be gaining hereditary and biological traits, like dark vision, over time.
Finally, if you take a PF1 Elf and convert it to PF2 with the same traits, the elf would need to be level 13 to get the 4 feats that were given to the PF1 Elf at level 1. Level 13! This is true for all of the races. Why have the races been nerfed?
I guess basically what I’m saying is that I much prefer how races/ancestries were done in PF1. You had the basic options for new players and for advanced players you had Ultimate Race. It worked.
If we keep ancestral feats, can they be an advanced option where we only start getting them at level 5 and beyond?
Also, if you can’t use a General Feat to gain an Ancestral feat, could we called them something other than feats?
I agree with pretty much all of this. There's too many feats. Feats have always been my least favorite part about making Pathfinder characters and now it feels like it's become the engine for character creation.
I really don't like the idea of races evolving over time. It doesn't make a lot of sense. The fact that the biological traits are mostly hereditary feats makes this somewhat better--but it still feels weird. And yeah, I can see how it could add complexity for new players.
Plus I'm not a fan of how a lot of the sensory abilities for gnomes and elves boil down to strange invisibility detection powers, rather than what they really should be--getting the Alertness Feat.
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Ancectry/race is really written bad in PF2.
Things that were default for certain races for 40 years now come with training?
IF you need to look for nice racial feats and what to get at lvl5,9,13,17 look at 3.5e book "Drow of the Underdark".
That is how you develop your default racial features via bonus feats.
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Ancectry/race is really written bad in PF2.
Things that were default for certain races for 40 years now come with training?
IF you need to look for nice racial feats and what to get at lvl5,9,13,17 look at 3.5e book "Drow of the Underdark".
That is how you develop your default racial features via bonus feats.
I mean hell, Paizo can just look at the race feats that were in PF1. They could have just separated that category of feat out into its own section that doesn't compete with core abilities like they do in PF1 and I don't think anyone would have had an issue with that. Instead they stripped stuff out to give it back to us in a trickle.
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Personally, I'm comfortable with staggering ancestry benefits over a few levels; what I'm concerned about is that a great many level 1 ancestry feats provide benefits that don't make sense to the *player* at the start of character generation. Obviously this will iron out with experience, but it's incredibly intimidating for a new player.
Example: Human gives the choice of a General or Class feat at level 1 - but I don't know what my options are yet (I may not have decided on a class at all). I can power through, but this means a lot of my choices are suspended until later steps are resolved. This is not great design
I can power through, but this means a lot of my choices are suspended until later steps are resolved. This is not great design
Oh a ton of stuff is backwards. I pretty much started with "class" then puttered around on race for a bit, did the forced stat adjusts, noted down the 5 free boosts I had, then moved on to HP (which is in two different steps...) and skills.