Out of the Sun teamwork feat


Rules Questions


Out of the Sun wrote:

You and your allies use the sun’s glare to your advantage.

Prerequisites: Bluff 3 ranks, Stealth 3 ranks.

Benefit: When you hit with a melee attack, you can attempt a Bluff check as a move action to feint. You do not gain the benefits of this feint; instead, if you succeed at your Bluff check, an ally with this feat who is adjacent to you or your opponent gains the benefits, such that the opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) against your ally’s next melee attack against that opponent. This attack must be made before the end of your ally’s next turn. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your Bluff check in bright light. This bonus increases to +4 in natural sunlight. You cannot use this feat in dim light or darkness.

Special: If you have the Improved Feint feat, you can feint with Out of the Sun as a swift action after you hit with a melee attack.

How would this teamwork feat interact with the following two feats?

Greater Feint:
You are skilled at making foes overreact to your attacks.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.

Benefit: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his Dexterity bonus against your next attack.

Normal: A creature you feint loses its Dexterity bonus against your next attack.
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Out of the Sun grants the benefits of the feint to your ally, but Greater Feint changes the benefit of feint to a penalty suffered by your opponent.
If I feinted for my ally while possessing Greater Feint, what would happen?

A) Only my ally would benefit from Greater Feint.
B) Everyone, including myself, would benefit from Greater Feint.
C) Everyone, excluding myself, would benefit from Greater Feint.
D) Greater Feint wouldn't affect Out of the Sun, so nothing would change.

Distracting Cloak:
When you attempt a Bluff check to feint, you can use your cape to create a diversion instead of denying your opponent his Dexterity bonus to AC. Compare the result of your Bluff check against the feint DC of each opponent that can see you (DC = 10 + the opponent’s base attack bonus + the opponent’s Wisdom modifier, or 10 + the opponent’s Sense Motive bonus if he is trained in Sense Motive and this bonus is higher). You can attempt a Stealth check to hide from any opponent that you successfully feint against in this manner, even if that opponent is observing you. If you do not have cover or concealment against any of these targets at the start of each of their turns, they automatically spot you at that time.
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Would Distracting Cloak interact with Out of the Sun at all? And if it would, in what way?


Bump.


Looking at it, I think it depends if the following statement is specifying what the benefit is or if it's merely a reminder statement.

Out of the Sun wrote:
if you succeed at your Bluff check, an ally with this feat who is adjacent to you or your opponent gains the benefits, such that the opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) against your ally’s next melee attack against that opponent. This attack must be made before the end of your ally’s next turn.

For comparison, feint states

Bluff: Feint wrote:
You can also use Bluff to feint in combat, causing your opponent to be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC against your next attack.

IMO, the following interpretations make sense.

1) You give up the benefits of your feint and grant a benefit to your ally as outlined by the feat. So, Situation D.

2) You give up the benefits of your feint and grant them to your ally. So, Situation A.

I don't think distracting cloak interacts with out of the sun. Both abilities essentially alter the normal benefits of your feint and grant a different benefit.


1) The victim loses their Dexterity bonus to AC against all attacks from until the beginning of your next turn. That part's not really any different from a normal use of Greater Feint. Only your ally gets the bonuses to hit.
2) Difficult to say what they meant. Since it says "such that they gain the benefits", I'd rule that your ally could attempt a Stealth check to hide.

(Edit because reading.)


Thanks for the responses.

Since Greater Feint makes the target lose its Dexterity bonus against all melee attacks by anyone, I wondered what would take priority:
Greater Feint or Out of the Sun.

Personally, I think it would make sense if it's treated as a normal feint which only your ally can benefit from. At the very least, the feinter should never be able to benefit from it since it's a teamwork feat.
So every alternative except B seems logical to me.

As LordKailas said, it's unclear if the description of Out of the Sun specifies the benefit, or is reminding us of it. Seems like a lot of superfluous text for a company that normally is very tight with the word count.

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