Hello,
I am playing a druid for the first time since my first character over 20 years ago and I wanted to convert my favorite spell from back in the day to pathfinder and wondered if I could get some input. The spell is "Puffball" and was in The Complete Druid's Handbook. I asked my DM if I could convert it and he said yes. I could be a little OP but I would argue that Color Spray can be OP in certain situations. I would like to try and leave it a first lvl spell.
Here is what it is as written in 2nd edition:
Puffball (Alteration)
Sphere: Plant
Range: Touch
Components: V,S,M
Duration: 2 rounds/level of caster
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 1 mushroom, etc.
Saving Throw: Special
A character who casts puffball on a normal mushroom, truffle, or toadstool (up to 6 inches in diameter) transforms the fungus into a magical puffball, which the character may drop or throw. The DM should decide what type of roll, if any, is required to hit the target (Strength, Dexterity, etc.) See the DMG, pgs. 62-63, for rules on grenadelike missiles.
The puffball bursts upon landing, releasing a cloud of spores 10 feet in diameter. Those caught in the spore cloud must save vs. poison or suffer an attack of coughing and choking. Victims can make no attacks and lose all dexterity bonuses to Armor Class and saving throws. The cloud dissipates in 1d3+1 rounds; residual effects still afflict character one round after they escape the cloud or it fades.
The spell's effects do not affect undead or similar nonbreathing creatures. If no one throws (or drops) the missile by the time its duration expires, the enchantment is lost.
The caster sprinkles the material component-a pinch of ground puffball-over the fungus to be enchanted.
Translated into Pathfinder-ese (without making any special effort to balance it for power), it would probably look like this:
School conjuration (creation); Level: Druid 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, M (a mushroom / toadstool)
Range: See text
Effect: cloud spreads in 5-ft. radius.
Duration: 2 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see text; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns a fungus into a throwable splash weapon with a 10 foot range increment.
The fungus must be thrown as a separate action after casting the spell. If it is not thrown before the duration expires, the enchantment is lost.
The thrown fungus creates a cloud with 10 foot diameter where it lands. The cloud lasts 1d3+1 rounds but can be dispersed after one round by any strong wind.
The cloud is visible but does not block vision. Living creatures in the cloud become nauseated on a failed save. This condition lasts as long as the creature is in the cloud and for one round after it leaves. Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn. This is a poison effect.
Awesome, thank you. I understand that nauseated is a little brutal for a first lvl spell (I don't know if there are any in the game that cause it) but I am underwhelmed if I have to drop that to sickened. How OP would you rate this as you wrote it? I believe in creating a spell doing things like rolling to hit and stuff works in your favor does it not?
So some feedback; The spell as translated is hilariously OP at level 1.
Some problems:
1. It affects an area, like sleep, but it has a standard action "cast time" (you can pre-cast it and then throw as a standard. It has no HD cap. It also creates a long-lasting battlefield hazard.
2. Compared to color-spray it can be used from a safe range instead of being 15ft from your target.
3. Nauseated is not as strong as sleep or unconscious; but a sleeping ally's friend can wake them.
If I wanted to keep this at level 1, I'd limit it to affect only the target that it hits with nausea for one round and make it and adjacent targets sicked for 1d3+1.
I'd also probably not separate the cast and throw actions. It's sort of needlessly finicky and encourages the druid to cast the spell and then give the mushroom to a more martial ally.
What about making it a splash weapon working similar to the smoke from the Pyrotechnics spell/ environmental smoke? It's what the effect of the original spell most reminds me of.
The main target becomes nauseated for 1 round on a failed fort save. The puffball spores apply a -2 to str and dex to the target and anyone within the splash radius for 1d3+1 rounds on a failed fort save. The spell would have the poison descriptor and would not affect creatures that do not need to breath.
Is it so overpowered as I wrote it?
It takes two standard actions to activate - given its short duration, casting it before combat would effectively require the advantage of surprise. This makes it less convenient than Sleep, Color Spray, Grease, etc.
There are two dice rolls to be made before it can work - one to hit the right area, and then a saving throw against nausea. Given cover and range penalties, you could easily miss the target area, perhaps even nauseating your allies.
A nauseated creature could retreat. In a corridor situation, the only way to follow them would be to go through the cloud yourself. (And in a non-corridor situation, it provides very little battlefield control.)
A 5' radius is smaller than the area effect for Sleep or Color Spray (but the same as the area effect for Grease).
Another possible adjustment would be to have it nauseate opponents of up to 4HD, or sicken opponents with 5HD+.
Is it so overpowered as I wrote it?
It takes two standard actions to activate - given its short duration, casting it before combat would effectively require the advantage of surprise. This makes it less convenient than Sleep, Color Spray, Grease, etc.
There are two dice rolls to be made before it can work - one to hit the right area, and then a saving throw against nausea. Given cover and range penalties, you could easily miss the target area, perhaps even nauseating your allies.
A nauseated creature could retreat. In a corridor situation, the only way to follow them would be to go through the cloud yourself. (And in a non-corridor situation, it provides very little battlefield control.)
A 5' radius is smaller than the area effect for Sleep or Color Spray (but the same as the area effect for Grease).
Another possible adjustment would be to have it nauseate opponents of up to 4HD, or sicken opponents with 5HD+.
color spray's power is balanced by being really close to the front line, so a successful save will open you up to a counter attack.
If a nauseated creature retreats, it is out of combat while you fight their allies. If they are alone, then they are not running very far on one move action.
Keep in mind, Sleep has a 1-round casting time, so its pretty comparable with your puffball.
A hit-die cap would make it much more fair. Though I'd probably set it's duration at 1+level then. Personally I like mine and Decimus Drake's version since that is less swingy and remains useful into upper levels.
What about making it a splash weapon working similar to the smoke from the Pyrotechnics spell/ environmental smoke? It's what the effect of the original spell most reminds me of.
The main target becomes nauseated for 1 round on a failed fort save. The puffball spores apply a -2 to str and dex to the target and anyone within the splash radius for 1d3+1 rounds on a failed fort save. The spell would have the poison descriptor and would not affect creatures that do not need to breath.
I should have included that this would be a transmutation spell since you're transmuting the qualities of preexisting fungus. I'm unsure as whether or not it should allow SR but I'm inclined to say no.
Thank you all so much for the input. I tend to agree with Matthew the most, but the again I am biased as I will be the one trying to use the spell. I sent a link to this thread to the DM and will see if he has any input.
|
Translated into Pathfinder-ese (without making any special effort to balance it for power), it would probably look like this:
School conjuration (creation); Level: Druid 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, M (a mushroom / toadstool)
Range: See text
Effect: cloud spreads in 5-ft. radius.
Duration: 2 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see text; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns a fungus into a throwable splash weapon with a 10 foot range increment.
The fungus must be thrown as a separate action after casting the spell. If it is not thrown before the duration expires, the enchantment is lost.The thrown fungus creates a cloud with 10 foot diameter where it lands. The cloud lasts 1d3+1 rounds but can be dispersed after one round by any strong wind.
The cloud is visible but does not block vision. Living creatures in the cloud become nauseated on a failed save. This condition lasts as long as the creature is in the cloud and for one round after it leaves. Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn. This is a poison effect.
As written this spell is WAY TOO OP.
Why? Cos its effectively replicating a 3rd level spell "Stinking Cloud" in the form of a level 1 spell.
It is in fact better then Stinking Cloud as the area is much smaller (and therefore safer for allies) and enemies won't be able to get total concealment at all.
Not to mention its 2 round per level is DOUBLE the duration of Stinking Cloud.
Please seriously reconsider what you are asking for. How fair or fun will it be for your fellow players or the GM to have to face a lv 1 spell with the power of a lv 3 spell? More so given that lv 1 spells can be cast a lot more often?
Stinking Cloud
School conjuration (creation) [poison]; Level arcanist 3, bloodrager 3, magus 3, shaman 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner (unchained) 3, witch 3Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a rotten egg or cabbage leaves)Effect
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; see text; Spell Resistance noDescription
Stinking cloud creates a bank of fog like that created by fog cloud, except that the vapors are nauseating. Living creatures in the cloud become nauseated. This condition lasts as long as the creature is in the cloud and for 1d4+1 rounds after it leaves. (Roll separately for each nauseated character.) Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn. This is a poison effect.Stinking cloud can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent stinking cloud dispersed by wind reforms in 10 minutes.