Butchering axe Boon

[Andrew the Warwitch]

I recently played the scenario that allows one to use the butchering axe. My problem is I am a Titan Fighter/Barbarian and was hoping to eventually make a large butchering axe for his weapon. Is this possible or is he limited to only the axe from the scenario?

[Gary Bush]

You are limited to what the boon allows. If it is sized for medium, that is what you get.

[Nefreet]

The Guide specifies that you may purchase small- or medium-sized versions of Chronicle granted items.

Items of other sizes have different prices, and are specifically labeled as such on the Chronicle (I've seen tiny-, large- and huge-sized gear).

[thistledown]

Don't worry, you're covered. Yes, you have to buy the medium one as written (may not really need dragon bane, but whatever)

Then you get someone to cast enlarge person on you. Then while large, you apply Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers to the axe. Put it in the oven, and the next day you have a large axe.

I'll be doing this trick 3 times to get it up to a Gargantuan axe for my statue to wield.

[Ninjamancer]

James Anderson wrote:

Don't worry, you're covered. Yes, you have to buy the medium one as written (may not really need dragon bane, but whatever)

Then you get someone to cast enlarge person on you. Then while large, you apply Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers to the axe. Put it in the oven, and the next day you have a large axe.

I'll be doing this trick 3 times to get it up to a Gargantuan axe for my statue to wield.

I get how you could turn it large, (even tho it feels a bit iffy on RAI) but wouldn't then you'd be a large size, putting a large item in for it to "grow one size category toward the size of the creature who applied the powder" and since it's already large, it wouldn't grow past that?

[thistledown]

The statue is gargantuan to start with.

[andreww]

I would be curious about where you were getting a gargantuan statue from given no such item is purchasable.

Also, as soon as you let go of the enlarged axe it reverts to being medium.

I have seen people try and pull this sort of nonsense before and have yet to see it actually fly at a table.

[Ferious Thune]

I believe the idea is that it’s a medium axe when you apply the slivers, but you are large, so it makes the axe grow to be large permanently. I don’t know that the effect of the slivers carries over from scenario to scenario. Was that clarified somewhere? And I don’t know about applying the slivers more than once to the same item. I’m also not familiar with where the gargantuan statue might come from.

[andreww]

Ferious Thune wrote:

I believe the idea is that it’s a medium axe when you apply the slivers, but you are large, so it makes the axe grow to be large permanently. I don’t know that the effect of the slivers carries over from scenario to scenario. Was that clarified somewhere? And I don’t know about applying the slivers more than once to the same item. I’m also not familiar with where the gargantuan statue might come from.

I did once see someone try to use stone shape to create their statue. It all fell apart when they couldn't explain where they got the raw materials from (they were in Absalom) or how they had time for the huge number of castings it would take.

Stone shape only affects 20 cubic feat of stone at CL10. Even assuming a gargantuan statue actually occupies a third of its actual space that's 2400 cubic feet.

[thistledown]

Ferious Thune wrote:

I believe the idea is that it’s a medium axe when you apply the slivers, but you are large, so it makes the axe grow to be large permanently. I don’t know that the effect of the slivers carries over from scenario to scenario. Was that clarified somewhere? And I don’t know about applying the slivers more than once to the same item. I’m also not familiar with where the gargantuan statue might come from.

So, my statue is huge, and uses the living monolith prestige class ability to enlarge to gargantuan despite not being a humanoid at the time. (And able to cast it as a SU instead of SP). The general build is discussed here.

For where to get the statue, the most clear-cut answer is a Monster Dummy of a Treant, Cherufe, Nightwalker Nightshade, or Void Yai Oni.
Other alternatives with some interpretations are Acrobat's Pillar, Mock Armor, or (my pick) Masterwork Sentry Mannequin

The Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers were hashed out in the thread about magic item permanency.

[Nefreet]

*imagines a crowd golf clapping together*

[Partizanski]

James Anderson wrote:

So, my statue is huge, and uses the living monolith prestige class ability to enlarge to gargantuan despite not being a humanoid at the time. (And able to cast it as a SU instead of SP). The general build is discussed here.

For where to get the statue, the most clear-cut answer is a Monster Dummy of a Treant, Cherufe, Nightwalker Nightshade, or Void Yai Oni.
Other alternatives with some interpretations are Acrobat's Pillar, Mock Armor, or (my pick) Masterwork Sentry Mannequin

The Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers were hashed out in the thread about magic item permanency.

I feel like I am missing a step here. So you can make your self large, I don't see how your enlarge person is making the statue gargantuan, or how the statue is "coating" the axe?

[TwilightKnight]

James Anderson wrote:

The general build is discussed

I think...

Spoiler:

this would need Paizo support to work. Simply reading the links provided, I see nothing that would lead me to believe this is a legal build/process. So unless there is more details not included in the linked pages or some FAQs or clarifications, I would say no. Course I admit that I did not scour the rules for every word on the matter. Much of the conversation on the subject exists in the advice/rules forums which is a hotbead of assumptions and speculations. If this build ever appeared at my table or I was asked to audit it, I would expect the player to bring it to the attention to the GM/organizer well in advance since they know this is likely to get A LOT of scrutiny and not leaving enough time to thoroughly review the materials is likely to get a simply "no" answer. That being said, I do not want to derail this thread any more than it already is, so I will leave it at that.

[Belafon]

I agree with Bob on this. Let's keep this thread about the original question.

I also agree:

with everything else Bob said. I'm probably going to post something in the other thread in a bit.

[Kate Baker]

Spoiler:

I’ve GMed for this character, and James sent me the build about a month ahead of time so I could look it over and ask questions. I’ll admit to not doing a deep dive on the rules involved, but that was on me, not James. He was quite responsible with his unconventional build, and him pulling out an enormous “mini” for one part of the Solstice Scar was one of the most memorable and entertaining parts of the adventure.

[thistledown]

Milan Badzic wrote:

I feel like I am missing a step here. So you can make your self large, I don't see how your enlarge person is making the statue gargantuan, or how the statue is "coating" the axe?

First I use Possess Object to animate and 'become' the huge statue. Then I enlarge myself. Then I (as the statue) apply the slivers. At this point affording the weapon is still theoretical though - I burn a lot of gp on the scrolls of Possess Object, I'd need an ioun stone to become proficient with the axe, 3 applications of slivers does add up, and I really don't need the dragon-bane part jacking up the price.

For most people though, 10gp for spellcasting services enlarge person + 1000gp for the slivers will get it to a large weapon to cater to those wanting a big axe. Or hire someone Large to apply it for you, but the story on that gets a bit weird.

[Nefreet]

Humorous Quip:

At that size, the axe weighs more than your straw and wire frame ^_^

[Ferious Thune]

I would consider making the axe large. The rest of it is way too far into uncertain territory for me. But I don’t see anything in the thread on the slivers to indicate that the change carries over from scenario to scenario. It doesn’t look hashed out in that thread. Just a couple of people saying they think it works. I’d have to do the math and decide if it’s worth it for my planned Goliath Druid build (to ultimately wield a huge axe when wild shaped), as it would also mean needing to dip Titan Fighter. It would go from 4D6 to 6D6, so -2 to-hit for 7 average damage (14 with Vital Strike), but dipping an extra level is a pretty big deal.

[GM Tyrant Princess]

I would not consider "a number of people, none of whom possess authority to make rulings, decided that it works in the most beneficial manner" to be "hashed out" to a degree worthy of citation.

At the very least, I recommend citing that with an asterisk that notes that no official ruling took place. Presenting an unofficial discussion in an ambiguous way that could be interpreted as claiming an official ruling (to those who don't pore through the thread) would make me somewhat uncomfortable with taking further claims from the same player on faith.

[GM Tyrant Princess]

I agree with Ferious that there doesn't seem to be anything to support the effects of the slivers carrying over from scenario to scenario. It's certainly within the intent of the item, but the same could be said of the spells specifically listed as carrying over from one scenario to the next.

[Ferious Thune]

Well, the FAQ on items creating items is something, so I may have been a little too absolute in my statement. But it’s not clear that the slivers fall under that FAQ. They might. But even when James presented that FAQ, it was with the question of whether or not it worked. I don’t see anything following that post that’s a definite yes and not just people on the boards believing that it should. I’ll likely skip making use of the slivers. Dipping Titan Fighter throws off a very complicated build for me anyway.

[GM Tyrant Princess]

Hm. I'll have to take a closer look at that FAQ at some point. Though it doesn't seem directly relevant.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

"Chicken ARISE! ARISE, Chicken!

Spoiler:

The boon for the Rare Weapons indicates that two prestige may be spent to swap out a Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Can this be used to augment limited weapon options for classes that have a limited list, such as Rogue, Druid, Shifter, etc?

Thank you very much for your time in advance!

[Belafon]

"Wei Ji the Learner” wrote:

The boon for the Rare Weapons indicates that two prestige may be spent to swap out a Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Can this be used to augment limited weapon options for classes that have a limited list, such as Rogue, Druid, Shifter, etc?

I’m not sure what you are asking here. Nothing prevents those classes from taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a feat.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

However, if the feat is taken, can the item be used?

[Nefreet]

You can use the item without the feat.

You're just less penalized if you have it ^_^

[Wei Ji the Learner]

I don't typically play item-restricted classes, so just wanted to make sure.

I know there's an armor restriction in some cases, after all.

Thank you.

[Nefreet]

No class has proficiency in all types of weapons and armor.

Unless I'm just not understanding your dilemma.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency is a regular feat from the Core Rulebook. It's only restriction is having a BAB of +1, which means a lot of classes can't take it at Level 1.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

I was thinking that certain classes couldn't learn it without losing all of their abilities for knowing how to use it and using it.

[Nefreet]

I believe there are maybe one or two peace-themed archetypes that would lose abilities if you attacked with any weapon, and obviously you probably wouldn't want to memorize the sanctuary spell, but that's about all I can think of.

[Belafon]

You are probably thinking about armor limitations.

If druids wear metal armor or use a metal shield they lose access to class abilities for 24 hours, but they aren't prohibited from using a metal weapon.

There are some class features that only work with certain types of weapons (such as Swashbuckler Weapon Training). Gaining Exotic Weapon Proficiency doesn't add that exotic weapon to the list of weapons that benefit from the class ability.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Thank you for the continued clarifications...

I think we can see how often I play a class and/or race that might be limited on such options?