And yet that's still more resources for a wizard to be good at said tactic. And because "magic immunity" exists most spellcaster usually are really good at disarm and trip.For example:
My Rage Prophet is pretty nifty with Disarm and Trip.
He uses a Dueling Furious Heavy Flail. Dueling adds double the enhancement bonus (it does not replace the enhancement bonus, so you are essentially adding 3 times the enhancement bonus) to trip and disarm. When raging, his enhancement bonus increases by 2. The flail itself adds 2 to both trip and disarm.
So with a fairly low number of resources, he is pretty good at trip and disarm.
???wha...???
I don't understand this enough of this post to even ask an intelligent question about what you were trying to say. You lost me completely...
My guess is that he's saying that a wizard has to invest much less to be good at tripping and disarming, because Grease exists. Since it circumvents magic immunity (or rather, infinite spell resistance) entirely, that also makes it more likely to be used due to the fact that magic-users have a back-up that is likely to work on most targets.
That's my guess, at least.
|
And yet that's still more resources for a wizard to be good at said tactic. And because "magic immunity" exists most spellcaster usually are really good at disarm and trip.For example:
My Rage Prophet is pretty nifty with Disarm and Trip.
He uses a Dueling Furious Heavy Flail. Dueling adds double the enhancement bonus (it does not replace the enhancement bonus, so you are essentially adding 3 times the enhancement bonus) to trip and disarm. When raging, his enhancement bonus increases by 2. The flail itself adds 2 to both trip and disarm.
So with a fairly low number of resources, he is pretty good at trip and disarm.
???wha...???
I don't understand this enough of this post to even ask an intelligent question about what you were trying to say. You lost me completely...
My guess is that he's saying that a wizard has to invest much less to be good at tripping and disarming, because Grease exists. Since it circumvents magic immunity (or rather, infinite spell resistance) entirely, that also makes it more likely to be used due to the fact that magic-users have a back-up that is likely to work on most targets.
That's my guess, at least.
Even if I completely agree with that idea, and I don't, it doesn't automatically mean that combat maneuvers are useless past a certain level. Just because its easier for a certain type of character to succeed at doing something, does not mean that a different type of character can't be completely viable doing that same thing.
Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
|
Even if I completely agree with that idea, and I don't, it doesn't automatically mean that combat maneuvers are useless past a certain level. Just because its easier for a certain type of character to succeed at doing something, does not mean that a different type of character can't be completely viable doing that same thing.And yet that's still more resources for a wizard to be good at said tactic. And because "magic immunity" exists most spellcaster usually are really good at disarm and trip.For example:
My Rage Prophet is pretty nifty with Disarm and Trip.
He uses a Dueling Furious Heavy Flail. Dueling adds double the enhancement bonus (it does not replace the enhancement bonus, so you are essentially adding 3 times the enhancement bonus) to trip and disarm. When raging, his enhancement bonus increases by 2. The flail itself adds 2 to both trip and disarm.
So with a fairly low number of resources, he is pretty good at trip and disarm.
???wha...???
I don't understand this enough of this post to even ask an intelligent question about what you were trying to say. You lost me completely...
My guess is that he's saying that a wizard has to invest much less to be good at tripping and disarming, because Grease exists. Since it circumvents magic immunity (or rather, infinite spell resistance) entirely, that also makes it more likely to be used due to the fact that magic-users have a back-up that is likely to work on most targets.
That's my guess, at least.
The problem is that all I need to really do is cast a spell whereas you have to invest in at least two feats, buy a bunch of goofyily specific magic items, and then hope that they aren't just flat out immune or have a CMD that isn't ridiculously high. Also, grease helps negate grappling, negates charging builds, can disarm, and of course trips.
|
|
The problem is that all I need to really do is cast a spell whereas you have to invest in at least two feats, buy a bunch of goofyily specific magic items, and then hope that they aren't just flat out immune or have a CMD that isn't ridiculously high. Also, grease helps negate grappling, negates charging builds, can disarm, and of course trips.Even if I completely agree with that idea, and I don't, it doesn't automatically mean that combat maneuvers are useless past a certain level. Just because its easier for a certain type of character to succeed at doing something, does not mean that a different type of character can't be completely viable doing that same thing.And yet that's still more resources for a wizard to be good at said tactic. And because "magic immunity" exists most spellcaster usually are really good at disarm and trip.For example:
My Rage Prophet is pretty nifty with Disarm and Trip.
He uses a Dueling Furious Heavy Flail. Dueling adds double the enhancement bonus (it does not replace the enhancement bonus, so you are essentially adding 3 times the enhancement bonus) to trip and disarm. When raging, his enhancement bonus increases by 2. The flail itself adds 2 to both trip and disarm.
So with a fairly low number of resources, he is pretty good at trip and disarm.
???wha...???
I don't understand this enough of this post to even ask an intelligent question about what you were trying to say. You lost me completely...
My guess is that he's saying that a wizard has to invest much less to be good at tripping and disarming, because Grease exists. Since it circumvents magic immunity (or rather, infinite spell resistance) entirely, that also makes it more likely to be used due to the fact that magic-users have a back-up that is likely to work on most targets.
That's my guess, at least.
Locked Gauntlet on my Rage Prophet negates grease for disarm, and he had a decent acrobatics and so never fell prone because of grease in his entire career.
NPCs aren't built with toppling magic missile so he never fell because of that either.
Sure, spellcasters can do almost anything easier if they have the very specific correct spells (or feats to modify said spells).
That still doesn't mean that combat maneuvers are useless.
Just like there are creatures that are immune to spells, elements, etc., there are creatures that are immune to specific maneuvers.
So what. My anecdotal evidence on this particular character shows that I was able to make a very versatile character that was highly competent in several areas and extremely competent in combat maneuvers.
If you are trying to argue that a spellcaster could do it with less resources or that magic trumps melee... I'm not going to get into that argument with you. All I'm going to say is, so what.
It doesn't mean that combat maneuvers are useless. (I've seen a trip monster at almost all levels, be able to trip EVERYTHING regardless of CMD, unless the specific creature type was immune (naga) or the enemy was flying/levitation/etc.) Just because there are some creatures that are immune or will be harder to use maneuvers on, if you can use them effectively at least 50% of the time, then that's extremely effective.
|
Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
|
Do you really think that me ranting about the community being pretty retched in its own right is better? There is a reason why I'm kind of railing on how badly designed the game is and its because I once accidentally started a 10 page thread about minmaxxing despite the fact that at the time I had no clue what the hell I was doing.
So what. My anecdotal evidence on this particular character shows that I was able to make a very versatile character that was highly competent in several areas and extremely competent in combat maneuvers.
]
No you didn't show anything. All you said is that your good at skills but even the most charitable build I have really isn't good at skills.