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#8-25: Unleashing the Untouchable GM Thread

GM Discussion

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Silver Crusade ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Abraham Z. wrote:
Should the PCs be told the troop rules or do they have to figure them out for themselves?

At this level the PCs should probably have at least one ridiculous knowledge (planes) check among them and I'd tell them the troop rules as part of the identification. I gave my players a refresher on troop rules as a freebie, for whatever that's worth.

The troop rules are enough of an abstraction I figure the party should probably know what's going on rules-wise. Maybe even if they don't bring any knowledges with them.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I describe the groups movements as coordinated and disciplined until they manage the knowledge roll, when I give them the rules description.

Minor spoilers for Season 5.:
Example here.


Makes sense - I'll do that - thanks.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Abraham Z. wrote:
Should the PCs be told the troop rules or do they have to figure them out for themselves?

I would tell them the rules for troops in general, and leave knowing the special abilities of these specific troops to the K(Planes) check.

The general rules for troops are a bit weird, breaking the normal game rules substantially; but they're supposed to be something quite common in the game world. After all, the PCs have probably seen a few troop exercises in Absalom.

Scarab Sages ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm getting ready to run this on Saturday (the 9th). Here's my math regarding Vector:

Normal hit: 2d6 + 24 (15 from PA, 9 from strength)

For his vital strike power attack crit:

8d6 + 312

improved vital strike adds 4d6; 2d6 crit becomes 4d6

static modifier: [9x2=18 {strength} + 15x2x2 {MPA doubles the PA damage before the crit mod}] x 4 (MVS multiplies the static mods that are 'doubled' on a crit by the number of extra dice due to the feat, ergo 4)

[18 + 60] x 4

[78] x 4


Ok, tear it up folks :)


In area B, the phoenix can cast Greater Dispel Magic at will. Can he use this to target a specific spell (e.g. Energy Resistance or Planar Adaptation) in an area? And if so, would he have to know exactly what spell the PCs had cast (he does not have Spellcraft trained)?

Much of this encounter relies on fire dmg, but it's very likely that any but the least prepared party will have sufficient fire resistance to just ignore the fire dmg, and the phoenix will see that when he casts Fire Storm as his first action. The whole situation gets a lot more tense if he dispels their resistance, but it's not clear to me from the wording of both dispel magic and greater dispel, whether he can even do this.

Also, is it too much of a jerk GM move to do this, even if the spell does allow it? (It is seeker tier after all...)

I'm running this Saturday morning, so any suggestions prior to that would be especially helpful.


Also in area B, the dragon has a breath weapon but there's no indication of how frequently he can use it. Does that mean every round?!?

And does the breath weapon (Negative energy) heal the cinderghosts at the same time as damaging the PCs (and possibly the phoenix too)?


You can certainly guess that a creature might have a particular spell effect in place but to dispel a specific effect you must target the exact spell. For example, trying to dispel resist energy will fail if the targets actually have communal resist energy active.

The phoenix lacks knowledge arcana (they get nature plus one other which the stat block doesn't specify) so it wouldn't be able to identify existing spells in place leaving it guessing as to what might be in play.

If you want to be very mean employ its reach and grapple people while partly in the column of fire. That will drag the target to an adjacent square (inside the column) and then drop them. They take 20d6 fire damage for being pulled into the column, get dropped 20' landing prone inside the fire. If they try to get away on their turn trip them when they try and move away.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Dispel Magic wrote:
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.

The most literal reading of this is that you must provide the exact name of the spell you want to dispel, as if you were doing a school test.

I'm not sure that's really how it's meant though. I think it's more about being unambiguous what spell you want to dispel, than spelling the name of the spell correctly.

So if a PC had both resist fire and protection from fire active, and you said "I want to dispel the spell that's shielding him from fire damage", the protection from fire would be targeted (since Protection from Energy says to apply it before applying Resist Energy). If a PC was under the effects of both Resist Energy (CL 11) and Communal Resist Energy (CL 7), it'd target the Resist Energy, since that one is providing more fire resistance and is therefore the "front" one.

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