#8-25: Unleashing the Untouchable GM Thread

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Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Abraham Z. wrote:
Should the PCs be told the troop rules or do they have to figure them out for themselves?

At this level the PCs should probably have at least one ridiculous knowledge (planes) check among them and I'd tell them the troop rules as part of the identification. I gave my players a refresher on troop rules as a freebie, for whatever that's worth.

The troop rules are enough of an abstraction I figure the party should probably know what's going on rules-wise. Maybe even if they don't bring any knowledges with them.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I describe the groups movements as coordinated and disciplined until they manage the knowledge roll, when I give them the rules description.

Minor spoilers for Season 5.:
Example here.

** Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

Makes sense - I'll do that - thanks.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Abraham Z. wrote:
Should the PCs be told the troop rules or do they have to figure them out for themselves?

I would tell them the rules for troops in general, and leave knowing the special abilities of these specific troops to the K(Planes) check.

The general rules for troops are a bit weird, breaking the normal game rules substantially; but they're supposed to be something quite common in the game world. After all, the PCs have probably seen a few troop exercises in Absalom.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm getting ready to run this on Saturday (the 9th). Here's my math regarding Vector:

Normal hit: 2d6 + 24 (15 from PA, 9 from strength)

For his vital strike power attack crit:

8d6 + 312

improved vital strike adds 4d6; 2d6 crit becomes 4d6

static modifier: [9x2=18 {strength} + 15x2x2 {MPA doubles the PA damage before the crit mod}] x 4 (MVS multiplies the static mods that are 'doubled' on a crit by the number of extra dice due to the feat, ergo 4)

[18 + 60] x 4

[78] x 4


Ok, tear it up folks :)

** Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

In area B, the phoenix can cast Greater Dispel Magic at will. Can he use this to target a specific spell (e.g. Energy Resistance or Planar Adaptation) in an area? And if so, would he have to know exactly what spell the PCs had cast (he does not have Spellcraft trained)?

Much of this encounter relies on fire dmg, but it's very likely that any but the least prepared party will have sufficient fire resistance to just ignore the fire dmg, and the phoenix will see that when he casts Fire Storm as his first action. The whole situation gets a lot more tense if he dispels their resistance, but it's not clear to me from the wording of both dispel magic and greater dispel, whether he can even do this.

Also, is it too much of a jerk GM move to do this, even if the spell does allow it? (It is seeker tier after all...)

I'm running this Saturday morning, so any suggestions prior to that would be especially helpful.

** Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

Also in area B, the dragon has a breath weapon but there's no indication of how frequently he can use it. Does that mean every round?!?

And does the breath weapon (Negative energy) heal the cinderghosts at the same time as damaging the PCs (and possibly the phoenix too)?


You can certainly guess that a creature might have a particular spell effect in place but to dispel a specific effect you must target the exact spell. For example, trying to dispel resist energy will fail if the targets actually have communal resist energy active.

The phoenix lacks knowledge arcana (they get nature plus one other which the stat block doesn't specify) so it wouldn't be able to identify existing spells in place leaving it guessing as to what might be in play.

If you want to be very mean employ its reach and grapple people while partly in the column of fire. That will drag the target to an adjacent square (inside the column) and then drop them. They take 20d6 fire damage for being pulled into the column, get dropped 20' landing prone inside the fire. If they try to get away on their turn trip them when they try and move away.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Dispel Magic wrote:
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.

The most literal reading of this is that you must provide the exact name of the spell you want to dispel, as if you were doing a school test.

I'm not sure that's really how it's meant though. I think it's more about being unambiguous what spell you want to dispel, than spelling the name of the spell correctly.

So if a PC had both resist fire and protection from fire active, and you said "I want to dispel the spell that's shielding him from fire damage", the protection from fire would be targeted (since Protection from Energy says to apply it before applying Resist Energy). If a PC was under the effects of both Resist Energy (CL 11) and Communal Resist Energy (CL 7), it'd target the Resist Energy, since that one is providing more fire resistance and is therefore the "front" one.

Sczarni ***

Really enjoyed playing this but was wondering if there are any deific obedience for ranginori?

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Savannah aka KitsuneWarlock

friendly sauce wrote:
Really enjoyed playing this but was wondering if there are any deific obedience for ranginori?

There is not. My Paladin does one every day, but there is no feat or benefit. She either hunts something (usually a mouse, since she's a catfolk) or stands on a roof feeling the breeze.

I scoured as many books and modules as I could for information on him. The chronicle sheet for this scenario has some information, of course.


Through the Maelstrom Rift visits one of his crumbling sanctums, where you learn he is anything but a pacifist.

Tyranny of the Wind Pt 2 teaches us more of his history, including the (possible) appearance his Holy Symbol (a storm cloud in a wreath of lightning bolts). It is not 100% sure if this is accurate, as this is described as "one of his sacred sigils".

Naturally, he had some more information in other scenarios, like Cosmic Captive...he is also mentioned in Planes of Power where you learn that his squabble with the good aligned Fire Elemental teaching mortals how to make metal weapons is what the evil deities capitalized on to seal the four benevolant deities. Oops.

I'll be running this for my group this Saturday. This thread has been amazing for prep work, but something occurred to me:

In fight two with the nightwalker, how does the pillar of fire interact with the deeper darkness spell she casts? It's a 28 CL magical light source, so does her spell only lower the light level to dim?


Nope, deeper darkness doesn't care about caster level, it cares about spell level. It should work just fine.

hey, I'm running this one friday,and I am looking for some paper minis to use for this one (quite short on large physical minis). Any suggestions of which paper mini set would work?

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

What is the height of the cliff in Encounter A? A search of the .pdf and this thread didn't turn up any answers.

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