Ability damage / penalties


Rules Questions


I've been reading through some old threads on this issue and there's a view that ability damage and penalties should apply to all statistics and checks related to the affected ability, not just those listed in the glossary. That view is based off a FAQ entry that says:

FAQ wrote:
Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do. The section in the glossary was very tight on space and it was not possible to list every single ability score-related game effect that an ability score bones would affect . . . Think of it in the same way that a simple template has "quick rules" and "rebuild rules;" they're supposed to create monsters which are roughly equivalent in terms of stats, but the quick rules are a short cut that misses some details compared to using the rebuild rules. Likewise, the temporary ability score rule is intended as a short cut to speed up gameplay, not as the most precise way of applying the bonus.

1) Is there any official source saying that the same reasoning applies to ability damage/penalties - that they apply to anything related to the ability score?

2) Do you read this to mean that the "+1 for every two points" rule is also a shortcut, and that 1-point adjustments should affect odd-numbered stats?

By way of background, I'm a long time 3.5 player and I'm GMing my first Pathfinder game. I'm using a VTT, so in a lot of ways it's actually easier for me to treat ability damage, penalties, and drain the same (except for duration/healing/lethality). I just want to ensure that I'm being faithful to the rules, especially if I'm going to share any code.

Dark Archive

"Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. Ability drain can be healed through the use of spells such as restoration."

"Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability."

More information on Ability Damage is found at: Ability Damage

So, regarding your 2nd question: YES a -1 would penalize an odd-numbered stat if it were Ability Drain, but NO if it is Ability Damage.


ckdragons wrote:
So, regarding your 2nd question: YES a -1 would penalize an odd-numbered stat if it were Ability Drain, but NO if it is Ability Damage.

Thanks for your input! That's my understanding too.

The same language applies to temporary ability bonuses (those less than 24 hours in duration): "For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability." Therefore, a temporary +1 ability bonus would have no effect, regardless of whether the ability in question was odd or even. A permanent +1 ability bonus, on the other hand, would raise the modifier for an odd score, but not an even score. All this seems pretty clear to me so far.

What I'm wondering is, since the FAQ answer suggests that temporary and permanent ability score increases should be treated the same, is the +1-per-2-points rule just an approximation of the technically correct rules?

I fully recognize that I am deep into pedantic territory here - it's just a little bit of minutia that has been bothering me.


As penalties and damage don't actually reduce your ability score I would not treat them as falling under the umbrella of the temporary ability score FAQ and so use the rules as written.

Drain however I would give the FAQ treatment too, so 1 point drain to an even ability score is not good.

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