Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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Let's wait for there to BE a core before asking if there will be a Core Campaign. Also, the reason Core games are hard to organize is because the average player doesn't like Core, not because they didn't get in on the ground floor.
I have met a number of people who would play core, if there was more interest and the games could be found.
The main complaint I have head about core, aside from lack of games, is that where core was offered, it was treated as some sort of challenge for elite players, and the games were deliberately run with the challenges increased by the GMs.
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Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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to be evil (and devil's advocate)
isn't it core from the beginning? it changes to non-core when they add more classes / archetypes etc in the AP's
Sure, it starts as "Core", and there is no Ultimate Starships or other rulebooks adding additional rules, aside from the Alien Archive and the APs. But there will be.
Maybe my perspective is wrong, but looking how and why PFS Core was created from PFS, and the response to Core that I have seen, if they included Core as an option from the beginning, I would expect the response to be much different.
and the games were deliberately run with the challenges increased by the GMs.That's a problem with the GMs, not Core
I don't do PFS super often, but I thought GMs weren't allowed to pull that sort of stuff in PFS...
PFS Core is kind of lame, anyway, IMO. Any time it's been offered at a PFS game day, I decline. So, I think thecursor kind of has it right, they're harder to find because most people don't want to play it. If I want to play a simpler game with less options, I'll just go play 5e, since it's a way better game than core PFRPG anyway.
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Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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I don't do PFS super often, but I thought GMs weren't allowed to pull that sort of stuff in PFS...and the games were deliberately run with the challenges increased by the GMs.That's a problem with the GMs, not Core
GM's are required to run the encounter as written. However, the way that modules and encounters are written, there is often a great deal that is not explicitly specified which can change a combat encounter greatly. For that matter, initiative alone can make a difference. So can critical hits or saving throws.
The same encounter, with the same rules, can change greatly based on how the GM runs it. Does the GM decide that the monsters are smart enough to attack the person in cloth rather than the one with all the heavy metal? How does the creatures special attacks work? Table variation can come into play, as well.
And GMs are human. Sometimes they can make mistakes.
PFS Core is kind of lame, anyway, IMO. Any time it's been offered at a PFS game day, I decline. So, I think thecursor kind of has it right, they're harder to find because most people don't want to play it. If I want to play a simpler game with less options, I'll just go play 5e, since it's a way better game than core PFRPG anyway.
The concept has always intrigued me, personally. At this point, Core is now a Challenge mode, not a general introductory level of strength. The game is not really simpler - to meet the more difficult challenges, you need to play or build better. Or you can have fun and play from 1 book. Then start to grow your collection when you are ready.
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Last year my group was at Gen Con and had noticed that Core events weren't offered like they had the year before. Curious, we asked on of the PFS people and were told that Core is still a thing and the various scenarios will be run as core, but only if every player in the scenario agreed to it.
So, get a group of 6 people who want to play Core and they will do it. Personally, I think it was an idea that they tried and found wasn't exactly popular with the majority of the player base, and thus they have kinda stepped away from it.
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GM's are required to run the encounter as written. However, the way that modules and encounters are written, there is often a great deal that is not explicitly specified which can change a combat encounter greatly. For that matter, initiative alone can make a difference. So can critical hits or saving throws.The same encounter, with the same rules, can change greatly based on how the GM runs it. Does the GM decide that the monsters are smart enough to attack the person in cloth rather than the one with all the heavy metal? How does the creatures special attacks work? Table variation can come into play, as well.
And GMs are human. Sometimes they can make mistakes.
Respectfully, everything you just described sounds like table variance and there is zero chance that Core rules can stop that. A monster knowing to hit a healer is a GM choice and not a Core rules choice. Table variance is a fact of PFS life, even in Core games.
PFS Core is kind of lame, anyway, IMO. Any time it's been offered at a PFS game day, I decline. So, I think thecursor kind of has it right, they're harder to find because most people don't want to play it. If I want to play a simpler game with less options, I'll just go play 5e, since it's a way better game than core PFRPG anyway.The concept has always intrigued me, personally. At this point, Core is now a Challenge mode, not a general introductory level of strength. The game is not really simpler - to meet the more difficult challenges, you need to play or build better. Or you can have fun and play from 1 book. Then start to grow your collection when you are ready.
Honestly, the ugly truth? I'm betting that the reason there isn't a huge demand for Core PFS has nothing to do with challenge or even limiting options, it has to do with the fact that the average PFS player buys upwards of two hundred bucks a year on hardcovers, splat books, and merch. Why would I want to play a game mode that forces me to keep most of that stuff at home?
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Let's wait for there to BE a core before asking if there will be a Core Campaign. Also, the reason Core games are hard to organize is because the average player doesn't like Core, not because they didn't get in on the ground floor.
I have met a number of people who would play core, if there was more interest and the games could be found.
The main complaint I have head about core, aside from lack of games, is that where core was offered, it was treated as some sort of challenge for elite players, and the games were deliberately run with the challenges increased by the GMs.
That doesn't sound PFS legal, honestly.
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Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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That doesn't sound PFS legal, honestly.Let's wait for there to BE a core before asking if there will be a Core Campaign. Also, the reason Core games are hard to organize is because the average player doesn't like Core, not because they didn't get in on the ground floor.
I have met a number of people who would play core, if there was more interest and the games could be found.
The main complaint I have head about core, aside from lack of games, is that where core was offered, it was treated as some sort of challenge for elite players, and the games were deliberately run with the challenges increased by the GMs.
I agree wholeheartedly. All of the info I have on core is secondhand, as I have never managed to get into a game of PFS core myself.
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Yeah, if it's just the GM being as effective as possible, then there's not much you can do.
Still, I never saw the appeal to core, personally. I want to get the new shinys and use them.
I think being able to get in at the start will help a lot of people in that respect, although there will be a time to come when I could see a point in instituting a Core campaign. For now they need to wait and find out how successful the system is, though.
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Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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casts Resurrect Thread
So, now we know we will be having additional classes coming out in late 2019 - so I will ask the question again. Will there be a Starfinder Society Core in addition to the normal Starfinder Society?
With the Second Seekers (Jadnura) boons, there is much less need for out and out replay, but I am asking the question anyway.
If we are considering a Core, could we please consider making the core assumption the following books:
* Starfinder Core Rulebook
* Pact Worlds
* Armory
* Starfinder Roleplaying Guild Guide
I know, you look at that list and see that I have included non-CRB books as part of my Core assumption suggestion. I feel that between these 3 rule books, especially with the inclusion of the main setting book Pact Worlds, that you can honestly tell most of the stories that you need about your character from them. Armory greatly increases the variety of weapons and weapon types available across levels.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I feel the setup of Core in PFS was flawed, because the CRB really didn't feel all that complete to me. Quite a few staple spells, feats and some of the most fun classes weren't in there. If they'd made it "hardcover mode" instead, I would have been more enthusiastic.
* The hardcovers are mostly/all under the control of the core designers, not separate freelance/setting development teams, so it's the experts designing game mechanics. For an organized play campaign where the GM is supposed to not change the rules, having those rules be top notch is quite important.
* The hardcover line receives reprints, errata and faqs, so if something does go wrong, it can be fixed. Problematic item in softcovers turned out to be very hard to fix in PFS.
* The hardcovers together formed a much more complete-feeling package than just the CRB. I think the same goes for Starfinder; Armory plugs a lot of holes in the equipment list. Alien Archive gets used a lot for both loot and boon races, including boon races from scenarios. Pact Worlds is the core setting book.
* The hardcovers are very affordable (as PDFs).
* The hardcovers are quite spoiler-free (most of the other game content is in the back of AP volumes, which not all GMs are happy to share with players).
* It's visually distinct which books are the hardcovers. It's a clearly recognizeable format.
* It's not too huge a format. Even for PFS, it took a decade before the collection of hardcovers really became big, and a lot of that (Bestiaries, optional rule systems) is irrelevant to 90% of characters. So it succeeds at the scope-narrowing that Core tried to do for PFS, but not too narrow.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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If we ever go with a second Starfinder campaign, I would support Lau's proposal.
Part of the reason why Core failed for PFS in most locations was that it was TOO limiting.
Still, I'm not sure we NEED a Starfinder Core campaign right now... I have so much to track as an organizer as it is.
Hmm
