Questions on 1st level Fighter with net and trident...

[Craig Johnson 951]

So I make up a 1st level fighter with 16st, 17dx, 14cn and as human take +2 to st. I take Exotic Wpn (net), Net adept, and 2 wpn fighting as my feats. After carefully reading over these feats, and looking at the net and trident feat, I came up with some questions.

Neither the net or trident are considered light wpns, so I get a -4, -4 for my two attacks. As I read it, I still get two attacks (like the net and trident feat) but they would be at -4,-4. The net would be at +4 (bab +1, dx +3) and the trident +5 (bab +1, +4 st)

Lets say I have the trident carried (like a sword can be carried) and I throw the net at a target 10ft away. Do I get the +4 to hit because I'm not using the 2 wpn fighting - ie only 1 wpn in my primary hand? or, because after I throw the net I'm going to take a 5ft step, equip the trident and make a 2 handed attack with it - at +5? or +1.

So the question - is the 2 wpn fighting penalty for making 2 attacks in a round?, or for using two wpns one handed?

I see very little use in taking the net and trident feat later because I already have the 2 wpn fighting ability, and all it is going to do for me is +2 to damage and +2 to confirm criticals (I don't throw a critical roll every round).

So, what do you think?

[Serisan]

Hi Craig,

There are a couple points of note to be had here:

1. Net and Trident is kind of a deceptive feat - you don't actually have to use a trident with it. You could opt to use a light weapon instead, but if you do use the trident, you are correct about the -4 penalty while taking a full attack while two weapon fighting. A light weapon would reduce that to -2 on each attack.

2. You can attack once while carrying two weapons and it's not considered two weapon fighting. Thus, using just the net or just the melee weapon does not impart the -4 penalty.

3. If you throw the net, 5' step, then attack with the trident, that is considered two weapon fighting. Note that you cannot attack 2 handed with the trident as that violates the "hands of effort" rules detailed in the Armor Spikes FAQ.

4. The sniff test for whether you apply the penalty is pretty simple: are you currently making a full round attack where the number of weapon attacks exceeds your BAB ability (i.e. more than you'd have including iteratives), ignoring any attacks from buffs like Haste or other class features? Then apply the penalty. At level 1, assuming no buffs or other class features, that would be 2 attacks.

[Craig Johnson 951]

So carrying the trident and equipping it after throwing the net doesn't help? because I end up with two attacks that round? If my BAB were 2 would that change things?

And if I have two attacks in a single melee round, then the trident can only be used one handed? Unlike your Armored Spikes FAQ, I actually have the off hand free in this case - but you say I can't use it?

If I throw the net as an attack of opportunity, I should be able to use the trident with 2 hands for my one attack on my round. That's obvious anyway.

I still don't think the Net and Trident feat is worth the cost of a feat, but there seem to be lots of feats in the Ultimate Combat book that aren't worth the price either. One of those birds of a feather books I guess.

At higher levels when I get 3 or 4 attacks, I'm assuming I could net trip, then net, then trident, trident? Possibly all on different targets?

[Chess Pwn]

Craig Johnson 951 wrote:

So carrying the trident and equipping it after throwing the net doesn't help? because I end up with two attacks that round? If my BAB were 2 would that change things?

And if I have two attacks in a single melee round, then the trident can only be used one handed? Unlike your Armored Spikes FAQ, I actually have the off hand free in this case - but you say I can't use it?

If I throw the net as an attack of opportunity, I should be able to use the trident with 2 hands for my one attack on my round. That's obvious anyway.

I still don't think the Net and Trident feat is worth the cost of a feat, but there seem to be lots of feats in the Ultimate Combat book that aren't worth the price either. One of those birds of a feather books I guess.

At higher levels when I get 3 or 4 attacks, I'm assuming I could net trip, then net, then trident, trident? Possibly all on different targets?

At bab 6 you get a second normal attack. You can do whatever you want with each of those attacks. Shoot a bow and then throw a net. Throw a net and then two hand a club. Both are fine.

If you are looking to get and extra attack, meaning 2 when bab is <6 or 3 when bab is 6, then you are doing TWF and must follow those rules, each hand is a separate weapon and no two handing any weapon.