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Eidolon Subtype Questions


Rules Questions


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

What Evolutions are available to Eidolon Subtypes published after Pathfinder Unchained, such as the Fey Eidolon (Ultimate Intrigue 71) and Kyton Eidolon (Curse of the Crimson Throne 431)?

There are numerous Evolutions with Requirements that were written before these subtypes existed (and therefore do not include them). The Kyton subtype states that it can take the Tentacle and Web evolutions, however the Fey subtype make no mention of what (if any) normally restricted Evolutions it can take.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Biped base form lists that it has 2 claw attacks. Is this still true of Eidolons subtypes that do not include the term "claw" in their Base Form entry (such as the Azata, Fey, and Kyton subtypes)?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Cantriped wrote:
What Evolutions are available to Eidolon Subtypes published after Pathfinder Unchained, such as the Fey Eidolon (Ultimate Intrigue 71) and Kyton Eidolon (Curse of the Crimson Throne 431)?

Consult your GM. By the rules, the Fey subtype, Kyton subtype, or Ancestor subtype cannot select any evolution that requires you to be one from among a specific list of subtypes.

Cantriped wrote:
The Biped subtype lists that it has 2 claw attacks. Is this still true of Eidolons subtypes when do not include the term "claw" in their Base Form entry (such as the Azata, Fey, and Kyton subtypes)?

Your eidolon starts with the listed evolutions for your subtype for free, but not any others.


So a 1st level Fey Caller's Fey Eidolon has no Natural Attacks (unless the Summoner uses its only evolution point for a Slam), and no Weapon Proficiencies either?
That doesn't seem right (as far as game balance is concerned).
Please FAQ the above questions, I'd love to see what the Design Team has to say.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Which of the unusual Base Forms; such as the Aquatic base form from Ultimate Magic, or the Avian and Tauric base forms from Cohorts & Companions are compatible with which of the Eidolon Subtypes of the Unchained Summoner?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cantriped wrote:
Which of the unusual Base Forms; such as the Aquatic base form from Ultimate Magic, or the Avian and Tauric base forms from Cohorts & Companions are compatible with which of the Eidolon Subtypes of the Unchained Summoner?

Those base forms are clearly not allowed for the unchained summoner. Special rules would have to be added to make them usable.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cantriped wrote:

What Evolutions are available to Eidolon Subtypes published after Pathfinder Unchained, such as the Fey Eidolon (Ultimate Intrigue 71) and Kyton Eidolon (Curse of the Crimson Throne 431)?

There are numerous Evolutions with Requirements that were written before these subtypes existed (and therefore do not include them). The Kyton subtype states that it can take the Tentacle and Web evolutions, however the Fey subtype make no mention of what (if any) normally restricted Evolutions it can take.

It looks like the Fey subtype has no attacks by default, but the Slam, Wing Buffet, and Weapon Training evolutions have no subtype restrictions and thus could be taken by a Fey eidolon. At 1st level, only the Slam option appears to be possible.


Fey Eidolons can also take Hooves, it was published in Ultimate Magic so it doesn't have a Subtype restriction.


Cantriped wrote:
Fey Eidolons can also take Hooves, it was published in Ultimate Magic so it doesn't have a Subtype restriction.

See earlier comments on baseforms from UM, nothing from books prior to unchained isncompatible with unchained eidolon unless called out as such.


Can you cite that for me? I cannot find anything in Pathfinder Unchained that says an Unchained Eidolon cannot select an Evolution from Ultimate Magic. In fact, the Fey Eidolon gets Low-Light Vision (from Ultimate Magic) as one of its Base Evolutions.

Base Forms are restricted by subtypes, which is ostensibly why unchained eidolons cannot select base forms from sources other than Pathfinder Unchained. And also why I posted those questions above and asked for them to be FAQed, in hopes the PDT would make a ruling about them. However, subtypes generally don't comment on which evolutions they can take (the Kyton subtype being an obvious exception), instead the evolutions themselves set subtype-based prerequisites, if any.


The rule citation is from the general class section in unchained "Some feats, rage powers, rogue talents, and other rules might not work with the unchained classes, and such rules should be reviewed before being used with the new versions."

So saying that comtent from UM cannot be used is not quite accurate, my mistake, but it would require GM approval, which is exactly where this whole issue needs to be solved as the rules stand.


Basically everything in Unchained is house rules anyway. It shouldn't be surprising that you need to add house rules to house rules.


Java Man wrote:

The rule citation is from the general class section in unchained "Some feats, rage powers, rogue talents, and other rules might not work with the unchained classes, and such rules should be reviewed before being used with the new versions."

So saying that comtent from UM cannot be used is not quite accurate, my mistake, but it would require GM approval, which is exactly where this whole issue needs to be solved as the rules stand.

Thanks for the citation, I appreciate it!

Thankfully, my Fey Caller isn't a PFS character, so my GM is able to actually make house rulings on these subjects.

Once again, to anyone who comes across this thread, please FAQ the above questions, even if you feel they've been answered above or their interpretation is clear to you. In my boundless optimism I am hoping to get Official Rulings for PFS on these and many other issues, and they won't answer what we don't FAQ!

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