Legal Fey Eidolon Evolutions


Rules Questions

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The unchained summoner archtype's Fey Eidolon has me a bit at a loss when it comes to evolutions. It describes the eidolon as a fey creature that bonds with the summoner, and gives examples such as a dryad or a redcap.

My hope was to use a satyr eidolon, however, per RAW, in order to utilize the Gore evolution to gain horns (or at least horns usable for an attack) the eidolon is required to have one of the following subtypes: Agathion, daemon, demon, devil, div, elemental, protean, or psychopomp.

It seems the Fey eidolon subtype, from what I've found, was never added to the unchained summoner's evolution list requirements, disabling any Fey Eidolon from taking all but the Non-Requirement-Based evolutions.
This cuts down on many Fey builds.

Is anyone aware of an errata or source of some type that details evolutions that the Fey Eidolon qualifies for?

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On a side note, they Fey Eidolon says that it gains the "Low-Light Evolution" at level one. The low-light evolution was an evolution from ultimate magic that was not transfered into the unchained summoner's evolution list. It's odd, since Fey Caller is an unchained-only archtype and cannot be used with the standard summoner.

Was the Fey caller perhaps intended to work with the old list of evolutions (which still had stuff like "Hooves") rather than the newer restrictive list?

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I would say they get a lot of spell-like abilities, so their evolutions are intended to be limited, but the list of spells they can pick is pretty small and just gives them access to the normal fey trickiness, which is neat but not necessarily powerful. The universal evolution list is also pretty lack-luster.

House rule wise I would usually say that the evolution baseform requirements are strong suggestions, not hard fast rules, and if you pick a, for example, fey baseform and are modeling it after an existing fey then you can fudge the baseform limitations on the evolutions as long as your aren't making a "fey" with 10 reaching grabbing tentacles (i.e. the kind of shenanigans that the unchained summoner was made to stop).

That obviously depends on your GM, though, and doesn't help at all in Pathfinder society were you strictly have to follow RAW, so some sort of official errata or FAQ on what evolutions the fey eidolon can actually pick would be nice. It's a nice base form but being stuck with only the universal evolutions seems a little overly restrictive.

I mean... They can only get slam, trample, and wing buffet? Really? How many fey slam or trample? No claws/horns/tails? No web (can't think of a fey with webs off the top of my head but it seems possibly fey-like)? Options? Makes a big green man, call it a "fey"... and then have it run around yelling "HULK SMASH" as it slams and stomps things, and then for good measure "buffets" them with it's delicate gossamer wings *tickle tickle*... <.<


Another thing to add to the errata or FAQ list for the Fey Caller: The archetype lists the Base Form: Biped (limbs [arms], limbs [legs]). The normal biped base form includes claws that can be used as a melee attack.

Does the Fey Eidolon lose the claws evolution as a part of the base form?

Another question that needs clarification: What are the class skills for a Fey Eidolon? It lists some that are added to the usual list, but it is confusing because one of those "added" skills is bluff, which is already on the basic list, and because the basic skill list only lists one knowledge skill (planes), not all knowledge skills. Does the player still add an additional four skills to the list or are the "added" list meant to replace the 4 the player normally selects?


I'm currently playing a Fey Caller in a non-PFS PBP Game, I couldn't find official answers to most of these questions either.

This is my understanding of the issues:

Nothing in the RAW prevents them from taking evolutions from Ultimate Magic (or other sources other than the Original Summoner entry), and the only relevant blog post only prohibits the Unchained Summoner from taking certain Archetypes. Therefore Unchained Eidolons can still take Evolutions from Ultimate Magic. So Low-Light Vision, Hooves, Spell-Like Abilities, etc are all legal options for Fey-Eidolons, and other Unchained Eidolons. However the unchained summoner could be considered to replace the original summoner, so nothing from the original summoner's evolution list is legal for unchained summoners.
As such, Fey-Eidolons cannot take any Evolution that lists a Subtype. As further evidence, the Kyton Subtype (from Curse of the Crimson Throne) explicitly states that it can take certain evolutions it would otherwise be prevented from taking. So it stands to reason that the Fey Eidolon would have done the same if it could take said evolutions.

Fey Eidolons only gain the list of skills listed in their entry (Ultimate Intrigue 71) as class skills. For reference, these are the same Class Skills the Fey Creature Type normally has. Likewise other Eidolons normally have all the same Class Skills as other Outsider Type Creatures.

Rules as Written, the Fey and Azata subtypes should both still have a pair of Claws granted by their Base Form even though neither subtype grants Claws as an Evolution because the Biped Base Form has Claws listed under Attacks, and nothing in the Base Forms section describes them as being from an evolution...
However. the Base Forms in the section after Eidolon Subtypes were copy pasted directly from the original Summoner without editing them at all. Given that numerous subtypes list Claws as a base form evolution, and some list Slam instead; I am inclined to believe that the Base Form entry is in error, and that Unchained Eidolons were only supposed to have Natural Attacks granted by Evolutions (including those granted by the "Base-Form" entry of their Subtypes).
This leaves Fey-Eidolons in the unfortunate position of being the only Eidolon subtype that at 1st level has no Natural Attacks or Weapon Proficiencies. Further, the only Evolutions they can take which grant Natural Attacks are Slam, Wing Buffet (available as early as 5th), and Hooves (from Ultimate Magic).
Finally on this subject, although it is omitted from the Eidolon Entry (most likely because they didn't think it would ever come up), the Universal Monster Rules for Natural Attacks state that if you only have one type of Natural Attack, but have multiple attacks per round (such as is the case if you have a pair of Hooves and nothing else), then all of said Natural Attacks are treated as being Primary Attacks (even if they are normally Secondary like Hooves), and you add your normal Str Modifier to them (but not 1.5 times as is the case if you only have a single natural attack like a Bite).

For what it is worth, my character's Eidolon took Hooves at 1st level, and used her Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana), and I operated under the assumption she didn't have Claws.


If you choose to give your Fey-Eidolon Weapon Proficiencies (either through Feat or Evolution) be sure to ask your GM how they intend to rule the issue of Eidolon Ownership of Equipment first.
The RAW is super vague and unclear on the issue. Some GMs will allow Eidolons to own equipment and take it with them when they disappear (just like equipment owned by other Summoned Beings does). Other GMs rule you own said Equipment, and that the eidolon drops it to the floor when they disappear, and therefore such equipment must be reequipped when summoned again later.


[REPOSTING FROM THE OTHER EIDOLON THREAD]
As for whether or not Fey Eidolons still get to choose four additional Class Skills... the RAW is somewhat unclear on that...

Unchained Eidolon's normally have a total of 10 Class Skills, 6 automatically, and 4 others chosen by the Summoner, which is more or less the same as what other Outsiders normally get in terms of Class Skills.
The Fey Subtype lists that it gains "Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Knowledge (Nature), Perform, Slight of Hand, and Use Magic Device as class skills instead of those gained by most eidolons". This is only a fraction of the 18 class skills Fey normally have.
What is unclear is whether the term "those gained by most eidolons" only refers to the 6 class skills all unchained eidolons gain, or all 10 class skills they potentially gain.

I am inclined the believe it is the former, but it may unfortunately be the latter... making the Fey Caller even weaker than I first suspected. To be fair, the Archetype was crammed into the last page of the chapter, so it was undoubtedly edited for length and therefore is missing clarifications it might otherwise have possessed.


Saniana Quickly wrote:

Another thing to add to the errata or FAQ list for the Fey Caller: The archetype lists the Base Form: Biped (limbs [arms], limbs [legs]). The normal biped base form includes claws that can be used as a melee attack.

Does the Fey Eidolon lose the claws evolution as a part of the base form?

Another question that needs clarification: What are the class skills for a Fey Eidolon? It lists some that are added to the usual list, but it is confusing because one of those "added" skills is bluff, which is already on the basic list, and because the basic skill list only lists one knowledge skill (planes), not all knowledge skills. Does the player still add an additional four skills to the list or are the "added" list meant to replace the 4 the player normally selects?

Ignore that last question. I realized later I was confusing the class skills of the class with the class skills of the eidolon. I could use some clarification as to whether the player gets to add four more to the eidolon's class skill list. I would be inclined to think that 4 can be added, since it does not say anything to suggest that they cannot.


I've got a thread started [Over Here] which I am attempting to collect FAQ clicks on. If you are reading this thread, please hop on over and give'em a click for good measure. The PDT won't answer what we don't FAQ!

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