Hello. Since my last build idea has been completely destroyed by the DM, I've decided to got with the Artificer. I already cleared it out with him, it's ok for me to play that class even if it's not perfectly balanced, and he will do some changes to prevent me from abusing some of its powers.
Said so, this is what I have so far, and I'd like your input on how to improve it.
THE CONCEPT:
Eyjafjallajökull (yes, that's his name) is an older Dwarf who spent his entire life in the Dwarven Empire, where he used to craft anything from common tools to constructs in his shop.
When one of his relatives (yet to decide exactly if it's a brother or what) left the empire to go adventuring, he decided to join him to look after him.
He knows a lot about weapons and such, but he has never actually been in combat, so he relies mostly on his crafting abilities to make up for his lack of combat expertise. That means mostly two things: first, creating constructs that will help and defend them; second, creating weird weapons able to do extraordinary things (the weird science inventions).
Spending all that time alone in his shop, playing with AI and magic, made him quite insane. He completely lacks social skills, and his moral compass is broken. He doesn't think much about consequences or ethics, he just thinks how cool it would be to make this and that.
THE STATS:
He's a Dwarf, meaning he has a +2 on CON and WIS, and a -2 on CHA. I had 20 points to work with, so this is what I came up with:
STR: 14 DEX: 16 CON: 12 INT: 17 WIS: 9 CHA: 5
First things first:
INT 17: with the level 4 boost I get to 18. Perfect for my crafting skills.
DEX 16: my low reflex save is not a problem anymore, INIT is always lovely and it makes sense for a tinkerer to be dextrous with his hands. Also I will most likely use ranged weapons.
CON 12: More than enough to get a few more HP, and it's always nice to boost a TS, even if FORT was already pretty nice. It makes sense having a higher FORT, since an inventor probably had plenty of stuff exploding in his face or zapping him with electricity.
WIS and CHA: I know they are low, but it's mostly a RP thing. Wanting to play a "crazy scientist" it makes perfect sense to have negative WIS, and I already have high WILL saves anyway. I don't need CHA, and again is great for RP since the anti-social thingy. For those worried about Use magic devices, I have it covered: "Pragmatic Activator" is a trait that lets me use int instead of cha for that.
STR 14: I know, there is no reason for this. But the alternative was to boost CON more, which I don't need, or to get higher CHA or WIS, which I don't want. A 12 in STR would make sense anyway, I'm kind of a blacksmith after all, making weapons, armours and constructs... A 14 isn't really needed, but it allowed me to carry a lot of stuff, and if I ever get in a fight I have a better chance to hit anyway.
FEATS:
1st lvl: -no clue-
3rd lvl: -no clue-
5th lvl: Craft Construct
TRAITS:
1st: Pragmatic Activator: use INT instead of CHA for Use Magic Device [MAGIC]
2nd: -no clue-
3rd: -no clue-
DRAWBACKS:
1st: Paranoid. I fear there is always someone trying to steal my research!
I still have to think about equip and magic items. Any suggestion, especially on the feats and traits?
Alright just started playing an an artificer(styled character not class) tonight so this is mostly theorycraft from quite a bit of research
Traits- rough and ready, spark of creation, hedge magician
Feats
Craft Wondrous items- no description needed
Craft Arms and Armor- lets you make training enchant(inner sea intrigue) weapons. Depending on what the dm sees as wielding in hand this can net several combat feats
Craft Shadow Piercings/Magical Tattoo- basically expand your body slot count if you can make regular wondrous items with these
Craft Wand- Brilliant if you have a paladin/ranger/hunter/summoner in the party. Early entry spells make this a great investment
Brew potion- potions are rightly dislike by most. They have serious issues with little resources to cover those weaknesses. There are a few things however that make them possibly worth the effort. Cayden's Fighting Tankard lets you hold up to 6 potions in your weapon. Accelerated Drinker and Potion Glutton make drinking less then a standard action.
Mundane Items
Portable Artificer Lab + Wagon
Magic Items
Traveler's Anytool
Guardian/Construct Armor construct modifications. If you sink enough gold into it this becomes effectively a very nice extra health pool. Note you can upgrade/advance constructs by HD. Bonus if you can get the 3.5 quick excape armor upgrade
Portable Hole + Bag of Holding + cheap construct
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Bags of Holding + Muleback Cords
Artificer from the Eberron Campaign Setting, someone's conversion of it to PF, or something else entirely?
Dastis wrote: Alright just started playing an an artificer(styled character not class) tonight so this is mostly theorycraft from quite a bit of research
Traits- rough and ready, spark of creation, hedge magician
Feats
Craft Wondrous items- no description needed
Craft Arms and Armor- lets you make training enchant(inner sea intrigue) weapons. Depending on what the dm sees as wielding in hand this can net several combat feats
Craft Shadow Piercings/Magical Tattoo- basically expand your body slot count if you can make regular wondrous items with these
Craft Wand- Brilliant if you have a paladin/ranger/hunter/summoner in the party. Early entry spells make this a great investment
Brew potion- potions are rightly dislike by most. They have serious issues with little resources to cover those weaknesses. There are a few things however that make them possibly worth the effort. Cayden's Fighting Tankard lets you hold up to 6 potions in your weapon. Accelerated Drinker and Potion Glutton make drinking less then a standard action.
Mundane Items
Portable Artificer Lab + Wagon
Magic Items
Traveler's Anytool
Guardian/Construct Armor construct modifications. If you sink enough gold into it this becomes effectively a very nice extra health pool. Note you can upgrade/advance constructs by HD. Bonus if you can get the 3.5 quick excape armor upgrade
Portable Hole + Bag of Holding + cheap construct
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Bags of Holding + Muleback Cords
I don't get the usefulness of "rough and ready"; I don't plan on using my tools as weapons that often. As for the other two traits, both are interesting, but both are Magic, so I could only take one.
Also, as a Magic trait I'm thinking Pragmatic Activator, to solve my CHA problem with use magic devices.
I do get most Crafting feats by default levelling up. To be more specific I get: Scribe Scroll (2), Brew Potion (3), Craft Wonderous Item (4), Craft Magi Arms and Armor (5), Craft Wand (7), Craft Rod (9), Craft Staff (12) and Forge Ring (14).
I did get Craft Constructs as my 5th level feats, so I'll have to wait to get to level 7 for the Tattoo one.
I like the idea of having a wagon, which would allow me to have both alchemist and artificer tools on it. But how do I take it with me? I mean, if I go into a dungeon, or deep in the forest, I can't just leave it outside unprotected. Is there a way to maybe shrink it?
Love the Traveler's Anytool, can't really afford the Amazing Tools of Manufacture.
Bag of Holdings is off limits, I'll have to live with the Handy Haversack for now.
I like the idea of Construct Armor, but I'm quite new to constructs so I don't know exactly how it works. Same goes for the cheap construct.
avr wrote: Artificer from the Eberron Campaign Setting, someone's conversion of it to PF, or something else entirely? This is the Artificer class I'm talking about:
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainmen t/artificer
It's 3pp from Adamant Entertainment.
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I also have a bonus feat, that I have to pick from a specific list. I chose Magical Aptitude, which gives me (for now) a +2 to Spellcraft and UMD. Or alternatively Skill Focus on one of those two.
Another feat I'm thinking about is Prodigy, which gives me a +2 to two Craft skills of my choice. The only "problem" is that I have more than 2 craft skills, so I don't really know which ones I should pick.
To be more specific I have the following Crafts:
- Alchemy, for brew potions
- Armor, for some constructs
- Clockwork, again for constructs
- Sculptures, again for constructs
- Explosives, because it's cool!
I'm also thinking something like Craft(Traps), but I don't really know how it would work.
I have 10 skill points each level, so I can keep all those crafts maxed, in addition to Spellcraft, UMD and Disable Device. I also have a few ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and (engineering).
That's definitely based off the Eberron Artificer but it's not the same. Weaker but simpler to use. You'll still want to dumpster dive through partial caster spell lists to find lower-level versions of spells to use.
Anyway, while you can get a Safecamp Wagon which can shrink it doesn't take equipment carried in it when it does so, which makes the ability of limited usefulness.
You don't think you'd like a metamagic feat to use when you hit 6th level rather than a skill bonus feat? If you do want a feat usable now then Skill Focus (UMD) to use your weird science inventions more often seems best. Also alchemy can definitely be used to make explosives, you don't need a separate craft skill for that.
On feats, if you're going to use ranged weapons much then Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are almost required. Or possibly a proficiency feat, crossbows and javelins aren't that great. If ranged weapons aren't going to be important then it depends a bit on what inventions you're likely to have on hand; buffing, blasting or battlefield control?
For traits, Heirloom Weapon is another way of starting with proficiency in a decent ranged weapon. You can enchant it from 5th level which is good because the trait only gives you proficiency in that particular weapon, not all longbows or whatever. Reactionary for an initiative boost or Deadeye Bowman to shoot past allies, Fungal Brewing to make alchemical items, or Hedge Magician to make magic items all seem possible.
avr wrote: Anyway, while you can get a Safecamp Wagon which can shrink it doesn't take equipment carried in it when it does so, which makes the ability of limited usefulness. That's what I've been looking for! Thanks!
avr wrote: You don't think you'd like a metamagic feat to use when you hit 6th level rather than a skill bonus feat? If you do want a feat usable now then Skill Focus (UMD) to use your weird science inventions more often seems best. Also alchemy can definitely be used to make explosives, you don't need a separate craft skill for that. I don't know, from what I understood (meaning what my DM told me, guessing he house ruled something) I only have a very limited amount of spells I can use on each device, and using a meta magic feat on it would either reduce the amount of spells or prevent me from putting a stronger one on it.
avr wrote: On feats, if you're going to use ranged weapons much then Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are almost required. Or possibly a proficiency feat, crossbows and javelins aren't that great. If ranged weapons aren't going to be important then it depends a bit on what inventions you're likely to have on hand; buffing, blasting or battlefield control? I really like the idea of being proficient with a firearm, but I'm not sure. They are awfully expensive!
I'm not too concerned about it only because we already have a gunslinger who could repair it for me.
For my inventions, I'm thinking mostly blasting power. A bit of control eventually.
I also plan on working a lot with constructs, but I'm new to that so I still have to understand the possibilities of it.
avr wrote: For traits, Heirloom Weapon is another way of starting with proficiency in a decent ranged weapon. You can enchant it from 5th level which is good because the trait only gives you proficiency in that particular weapon, not all longbows or whatever. Reactionary for an initiative boost or Deadeye Bowman to shoot past allies, Fungal Brewing to make alchemical items, or Hedge Magician to make magic items all seem possible. The heirloom trait would be perfect.
I'm thinking "Tireless Logic" as Social trait (being able to re-roll an INT check is great for craft and spellcraft checks), and "Spark of Creation" as Magic feat.
I'm a bit worried that without Pragmatic Activator I have a low UMD, which is why my bonus feat would be Skill Focus (UMD). That, plus 5 ranks, would bring me to an 8, being a class skill.
I still have 2 feats to pick. I could go with ranged feats, but most of my dmg will come from inventions or constructs, not my crossbow or firearm..
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Also, I'm thinking about taking 1 level dip into "Scavenger Investigator". It adds some nice flavour to my crafter, inspiration is great to have, and crafting small gadgets is perfect for my concept. And we don't have a rogue, so that would give me the ability to find and disable magical traps.
On a side note, what's the benefit of having a homunculus?
Lady Platypus wrote: avr wrote: You don't think you'd like a metamagic feat to use when you hit 6th level rather than a skill bonus feat? If you do want a feat usable now then Skill Focus (UMD) to use your weird science inventions more often seems best. Also alchemy can definitely be used to make explosives, you don't need a separate craft skill for that. I don't know, from what I understood (meaning what my DM told me, guessing he house ruled something) I only have a very limited amount of spells I can use on each device, and using a meta magic feat on it would either reduce the amount of spells or prevent me from putting a stronger one on it. Yeah, you wouldn't use it with your weird science inventions (I think your DM is saying an [e.g.] empowered magic missile would be a 3rd level spell as far as that's concerned, which would be right), you'd use it with the Metamagic Science ability on wands when you get that at 6th level. If you've dropped the idea of using Pragmatic Activator then yes you do want Skill Focus (UMD) now.
Blasting can mean save-based effects like fireball or burning arc, or ranged touch spells like scorching ray or battering blast. The first you can't do much with feats on given that you're not actually casting a spell, the second benefits from point blank shot etc.
A homunculus is a little creature you can give one of your weird science inventions or other magic items to in order to blow the enemies up that much faster.
avr wrote: Yeah, you wouldn't use it with your weird science inventions (I think your DM is saying an [e.g.] empowered magic missile would be a 3rd level spell as far as that's concerned, which would be right), you'd use it with the Metamagic Science ability on wands when you get that at 6th level. If you've dropped the idea of using Pragmatic Activator then yes you do want Skill Focus (UMD) now.
Blasting can mean save-based effects like fireball or burning arc, or ranged touch spells like scorching ray or battering blast. The first you can't do much with feats on given that you're not actually casting a spell, the second benefits from point blank shot etc.
A homunculus is a little creature you can give one of your weird science inventions or other magic items to in order to blow the enemies up that much faster.
Oh, that's right, I forgot about metamagic science! Which meta magic feat would you suggest?
I'm also looking at wondrous items, and all I could find is "Assisting gloves" and "muleback cord" which help me somehow. I have a low budget now, and I prefer to save some gold to build some construct straight away. And that leads me to another question: there are a ton of possible constructs, and I have no clue which ones I should make!
Oh and another thing. I was looking at the homunculus, but one of the spells required to craft it it's a 4th level spell. Does that mean that I won't be able to craft it until I reach level 11?
Empower Spell is the obvious metamagic feat. Most blasts and some other spells (e.g. mirror image) can benefit from it.
A clockwork spy is a cheap construct which is exactly what it sounds like. Combat capable ones will cost more than you can afford at 5th level IMO.
Muleback Cords let you carry a lot. If you want that, get them. I might get a utility wand to buff your friends - enlarge or reduce person perhaps. Or a wand of silent image perhaps.
Remember when crafting permanent magic items you can drop any non-feat requirement in exchange for a +5 to the crafting DC. If your spellcraft is decent you should be able to make a homunculus much earlier than 11th level.
The only other construct I can afford, is the Iron Cobra, so I might do it.
I like the clockwork spy a lot! I'll definitely get one.
It's not just about wanting, it's about needing it. Even with 14 STR, I can't carry a lot, considering I have a lot of tools with me plus a Medium Tent (30 lbs). But I could consider getting an animal to carry my stuff, it's probably cheaper and doesn't fill a magic item slot.
I'm now looking into animated objects, and I'm a bit confused. What can an Animated Object do? I read somewhere that you can make them cast a spell 1/day, a low level spell I think. But how do I make it that way? I'm having a hard time understanding how their creation works...
There's some rules about making constructs here and here and the entry for animated objects is here. Animated objects can get a bunch of modifications via their construction points but not the ability to cast spells that I know of.
An iron cobra has a terrible attack bonus. The only way it can usefully hurt something is by sneaking up while the target is asleep - which may be doable, true.
Thank you, I'll read all of it!
This is where I read someone suggesting an animated object casting cantrips or low-level spells:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sf7u?Unique-ways-to-use-craft-construc
Did they just made it up?
Yeah I noticed the cobra is nothing great. I'm not sure I'm going to get it.
About the Homunculus: I can enhance him with 10 potions so that he can cast the equivalent spell 1/day. Can I do that multiple times?
Like giving him 20 potions so he can cast it 2/day? or giving him 10 potions of "A" and 10 of "B" so che can cast A 1/day and B 1/day? Or would the second one replace the first?
Yeah, um, there's no support for Mark Hoover in the rules there. At all.
With the homunculus, it seems reasonable that you could add the spell-like ability more than once but it doesn't explicitly say so.
I see.
I asked to the DM, and he doesn't allow to add more than one spell. If I do, it will replace the first one, which makes sense.
Something else I'm not sure about: I can craft constructs with additional HD, for a higher price. Other than the obvious HP increase, do they get any other benefit from it?
They get base attack bonus increasing & saves and if intelligent they get feats & skills. Mindless constructs don't get those last.
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