Mini Green Brawler


Advice


I like to have a few types of characters ready for campaigns, that way when i come in I can have something ready to fill the parties needs.
Also, I am a sucker for a good flavorful character that doesn't hurt the party. Anything first party is almost always allowed, and 3rd party that isn't cheesy.

With that in mind:
I would like to create a small Brawler, optimization is not the goal, but being effective for most encounters is still important. Goblin is one race I have yet to play and Brawler seems like an interesting class for them.

I was thinking of making a nuisance Goblin Brawler that would focus on Dirty trick, and disarm/steal with flexibility. High DEX, mobility and dodge would be the main methods of survival, and charge plus flurry should provide decent melee damage. The Goblin feat Roll With it seems like a wonderful survival ability for shrugging off mighty blows from BBEG's.

I am not sure if Eat anything (better survival, better saves vs sickness/nauseated), or if Big Head Big Teeth would work better for the occasional grapple?

I am thinking DEX>STR>CON>MENTAL>INT(10) for array (we roll for points).
1) Combat Expertise
2)(C) Roll With it.
3)...
4)...

Would weapon finesse be a viable route? TWF? Power attack? Are fists sufficient with pummeling style? or would close weapons and some other style work more thematically (Kitsune for tricks?)?
I am thinking of prioritizing survival>Debuff>Attack>Damage

What is the best order for Brawler skills? What should be taken as a feat and what should be saved for flexibility?
Equipment? Probably Brawling Light armor and Monks robes, or quick runner shirt.
Would a 1-2 dip in multiclass benefit the build any?

So community, can we do this? Can we make an annoying Goblin Brawler that suddenly flies at enemies faces with a handful of something pulled from his nose before bruising them from the knees down while they are dazed and confused?!
What does a good build for this idea look like?


Brawling armor is a +3 equivalent ability now. For highish level games only. Quick runner's shirt got nerfed too.

That aside yes, this sounds doable. You could do it with Paizo stuff alone, but if some 3rd party is available then Dreamscarred Press' Path of War could definitely help.

Starting with Paizo though, I'd have to take advantage of the goblins +4 dex racial. So maybe,
1) Weapon Finesse
1B) Improved Unarmed Strike
2B) Roll With It, TWF
3) Dirty Fighting
5) Agile Maneuvers
5B) Improved Dirty Trick
7) Kitsune Style
8B) Greater Dirty Trick, Improved TWF
9) Quick Dirty Trick
11) Skill Focus (acrobatics)
11B) Dirty Trick Master
This mostly keeps the dirty trick feats ready without martial flex, though at many levels you could use martial flex to make some of the feats available earlier. Also you could pick up later feats in the Kitsune Style chain. If you want to use different maneuvers at some point - grapple, steal, even overrun - martial flex can handle that given Dirty Fighting as the initial prereq.


Thank you for the quick and thorough response!
I had no idea dirty fighting was a thing, that really helps with the heavy feat load to begin with! I was worried I would have to go: combat expertise> improved dirty/steal/grapple/overrun/etc to get up the tiers.

I am sad brawling and quick runners have been nerfed, I don't often get to play melees and was looking forwards to the mobility. It looks like Amulet of Mighty Fists got a lot more affordable, so I guess I can trade speed for damage there, if Unarmed is actually better than armed.

Is the Kitsune style a decent one to use?
Or are some just styles better in general?
Or for this type of build in particular?


Kitsune Style is all about dirty tricks. The first feat lets you use dirty trick on a charge, the next (which you'd have to martial flex in this plan) lets you do two conditions on a dirty trick, the last lets you do dirty trick on AoOs.

It's not the only possible choice. With your unarmed plans you could go for Outslug Style for extra mobility (& a bit more damage), but you'd have to go back to Combat Expertise. There are other styles which are good for unarmed damage, Jabbing Style or Boar Style perhaps. The prereqs for the later Pummelling Style feats would be a pain though.


So now, equipment: Armor spikes on my light armor?
Tekko-Kagi for disarm, but are any close weapons preferred over unarmed and a style. I know the Eimei Piercer grants piercing, and larger crit range, but at reduced damage (for a while), and is great as a (I presume) free action "drop" to grab something else.
For early levels, it seems handaxe/shortsword a literally the best melee until unarmed progresses, or am I missing something there?
It looks like throwing daggers is the best ranged we can get, for some reason the boards prefer wushu darts though.

I think my shortlist for flexibility will be: Improved (dirty/steal/disarm, Deflect Arrows, Nimble Moves, Snapping Turtle Style, Throw Anything (alchemist fires most likely), Shot on the run, and the Kitsune Style chain. Any more every "brawler needs" (and can access) flexibility feats for quick reference?

Finally, what Goblin racial is superior? resistance to nauseated/sickness or a bite attack that can auto apply on defensive grapples and pins?

EDIT: Would enlarge be useful for a small Brawler?


Enlarge would be terrible for a small, dex-based brawler. You wouldn't gain reach, you'd lose dex and the added strength would do little for you.

I think the bite is better. Your fort save is probably OK anyway.

There are many, many possible feats out there. Dedicated Adversary, Deflect Arrows, Piranha Strike & Quillbreaker Defence are all good on their own, but remember you can grab 2 at once from 6th level - it gets complicated then!

Having armor spikes is good for quillbreaker defence if nothing else and may be useful in a grapple. A short sword is going to be handy at first, yes, and maybe a tekko-kagi - when using TWF at levels 1-3 armor spikes and short sword may be the way to go. Those and daggers or a javelin sound like enough to carry.

Grand Lodge

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Okay, I can probably provide some practical experience for this. I have a 14th level human brawler and have spent weeks on figuring out different builds for a grippli monk.

-It loooooks like you're already considering it, but Agile on an Amulet of Mighty Fists is an obvious choice. Just max your Dex out and have a decent AC along with your attack and damage.
-Brawlers = Best at combat maneuvers. I don't mean the highest CMB for a single maneuver, I mean they have a high CMB for ALL maneuvers, whenever they want. Make sure you take Power Attack and Combat Expertise so you can use them to dive into Improved Maneuver feats with Martial Flexibility. If you are really into a particular maneuver, get the Improved Maneuver feat, and no more. By the time you'd have the tree, you'll be able to spend a move action to get it for a fight, and at higher levels you'll only need a swift action.
-Power Attack is needed, because it's such a common prerequisite. I know it won't be great to dump 7 points into a penalty stat, but you're going to need the feat if you want to take full advantage of your class ability.
-Weapon Focus (Unarmed) is another big prereq feat. I'd also recommend Weapon Specialization, but probably ignore the greater versions of both. You can pass on Specialization if you want.
-Once you can afford it, get Brawling on your light armor anyway. I don't care if it's expensive. It's an untyped +2 to attack, damage, trip, disarm, sunder (unarmed), and grappling. It completely offsets your Brawler's Flurry penalty and then some, and it stacks with everything.
-There is 4k cracked Ioun stone that also bumps up your attack bonus by +1. This includes CMB. Grab it once you can.
-Grab Iron Will. You'll suck at Will saves and you'll need to cover that. You might even consider a clear spindle Ioun stone in a wayfinder for extra coverage against getting dominated and killing your party.
-Agile Maneuvers has already been mentioned, but will be necessary.
-Style Feats: These are hard, because they will suck up your feats. My brawler uses Snake Style, and ended up spending like... 6 feats for it, and that one has pretty low requirements. If you use a style feat tree that focuses on a combat maneuver, expect it to be useless sometimes due to immunity, and require more feats because you'll want the whole combat maneuver feat tree. I started out focusing on grappling, disarm, and trip but ended up keeping only Improved Disarm because when it matters it's incredibly useful and I normally don't have the spare action to grab it (swift and immediate actions are usually already spent).
-I find that if you want to be viable in the widest range of situations, you need to have good damage output. You can blind, trip, and grapple your opponent all day long, but it's still breathing and can potentially still kill you dead. As you get higher in level, rely more on Martial Flexibility and ensure you have the basic prereq feats to allow you to grab whatever you need.

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