How to use Multiattack on Edilons

[poundpuppy30]

I'm trying to understand Multiattack. My Quadroped Edilon has bite and two claws already so I picked Multiattack. How does that work as far as giving him another attack? Anyone know if his bite and two claws get any minuses because all three say primary attacks.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Multiattack wrote:

An eidolon gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has 3 or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite 3 or more natural attacks (or it is reduced to less than 3 attacks), the eidolon instead gains a second attack with one of its natural weapons, albeit at a –5 penalty. If the eidolon later gains 3 or more natural attacks, it loses this additional attack and instead gains Multiattack.

Multiattack wrote:

This creature is particularly skilled at making attacks with its natural weapons.

Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.

Benefit: The creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

So there's two Multiattack involved here. First is the Eidolon ability. It's a simple check. Do you have three natural attacks? Yes: Gain Multiattack as a bonus feat. No: The eidolon may make a second attack with one of its natural weapons at a -5 penalty (as always, this is only on a full attack).

Then comes the feat. The feat is really simple. It reduces the penalty for secondary natural attacks from -5 to -2. If your attacks are all primary, it doesn't do anything.

So for your example, your eidolon would get Multiattack (the feat) and it wouldn't do anything.

[poundpuppy30]

Ah ok. That's cool since it applies to all secondary type attacks. So does that also mean if my Edilon gains more claw attacks all of them are primary attacks and don't get the minuses?

[Bob Bob Bob]

Right, but that's because the Eidolon claws (and claws in general) are primary. So if you make a six-armed eidolon and give it three pairs of claws, they're still all primary (and you'd have to be level 14 to use all of them, and level 19 to bite as well). So no penalties to use all of them.

Now, it might become relevant if you mix weapon attacks and natural attacks (like a four-armed eidolon with two swords, two claws, and a bite). If you make any weapon attacks, all natural attacks become secondary. Multiattack applies though, so it can reduce those penalties.

[Diego Rossi]

Bob Bob Bob, you have forgot to mention the other prerequisite for the Eidolon multiattack ability: being 9th level.

[poundpuppy30]

Ok so if my edilon has bite and claw evolution and I'm level 7, does that mean I can't give him another evolution claw since that would give him 2 more claw attacks and his max attacks is 4 for a level 7 summoner or can he still have bite, claw and another claw evolution but still limit him to only doing 4 attacks in a round and no more?

[Derklord]

poundpuppy30 wrote:

Ok so if my edilon has bite and claw evolution and I'm level 7, does that mean I can't give him another evolution claw since that would give him 2 more claw attacks and his max attacks is 4 for a level 7 summoner

Yes. The maximum attack limit is for chosing (!) evolutions. How many natural attacks it actually does in a given round is completely irrelevant, an eidolon can even do more natural attacks in a round then it's limit (for instance with Haste). The limit is always and only checked when you select an evolution (during the level up process or when casting a spell like Evolution Surge).

That's why my Eidolon (also 7th level at the moment) has Gore, which will be switched to Claws at 9th level.

Both the Multiattack feat and the class feature will probably be completely irrelevant for your Eidolon.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

So if you make a six-armed eidolon and give it three pairs of claws, they're still all primary (and you'd have to be level 14 to use all of them, and level 19 to bite as well).

This is wrong. A quadruped Eidolon can not select the Claws evolution thrice until 19th level, because your bite attack always 'eats up' one natural attack of your limit.

[Diego Rossi]

Derklord wrote:

poundpuppy30 wrote:

Ok so if my edilon has bite and claw evolution and I'm level 7, does that mean I can't give him another evolution claw since that would give him 2 more claw attacks and his max attacks is 4 for a level 7 summoner

Yes. The maximum attack limit is for chosing (!) evolutions. How many natural attacks it actually does in a given round is completely irrelevant, an eidolon can even do more natural attacks in a round then it's limit (for instance with Haste). The limit is always and only checked when you select an evolution (during the level up process or when casting a spell like Evolution Surge).

....

Not the text of the rule:

PRD wrote:

Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.

Posses is not the same as make, so the haste argument is irrelevant.

The resulting eidolon posses more attacks than allowed.

If tacking an evolution put you above the maximum number your build is illegal. It don't matter if you have tried to game the system taking taking them in an order that allow you to have one slot open and then getting one slot over. The resulting eidolon is against the rules and illegal for play.

[Derklord]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Posses is not the same as make, so the haste argument is irrelevant. (...) If taking an evolution put you above the maximum number your build is illegal.

You seem to have misunderstood my post, because that's exactly what I was saying.

[Diego Rossi]

Derklord wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Posses is not the same as make, so the haste argument is irrelevant. (...) If taking an evolution put you above the maximum number your build is illegal.

You seem to have misunderstood my post, because that's exactly what I was saying.

Sorry, I missed the "yes" and read it as if you were saying: "you can can take the evolution has you have space for 1 more attack". I should have read your post with more attention.

[thaX]

Please note, the last part of that (does not include weapons) on the max attacks does not apply to Unchained Summoners. They are limited to max attacks period, no matter if it is natural or weapons.