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Baseline caveat/rule: don't gripe about how leadership etc. is broken, how it can be abused, etc. This thread is for suggestions, not complaints.
The game is intended to be one that has the PCs developing contacts, creating continent-spanning organizations, and that sort of thing; it is also Mythic. So though I looked up various mythic versions of Leadership, I haven't been satisfied with them. So the following ...
You can attract even more followers to your cause and a more powerful companion to join you on your adventures.
Prerequisite: Character level 7th, Leadership feat.
Benefit: This feat adds half your mythic tier to your leadership score; you may also recruit a cohort equal to your level. Furthermore, at Leadership of 26, you may recruit an 18th level cohort; at 28, a 19th level cohort; and at 30th, a 20th level cohort. Your cohort may possess mythic tiers as well, to a maximum of 2/3 of your own mythic tier, rounded down.
This somewhat combines the Greater Leadership ability from Noble Scion, as well as the Champion's Crusader Mythic Path ability. I am considering putting the Mythic Tier increase to full-tier, though unlike the Crusader path ability the followers can't use the Mythic Surge ability.
Your recruits are especially skilled.
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Character level 5th, Recruits feat.
Benefit: The lesser cohorts you gain from the Recruits feat are more powerful than standard. You add 1/2 your tier (minimum 1) to your leadership score for recruitment purposes, and these lesser cohorts may be up to 2 levels lower than your character level. They may also possess mythic tiers up to 1/3 of your tier (round down).
Special: As with standard Recruits, you may exchange this mythic feat for its Leadership version upon achieving level 7th, essentially switching both standard and mythic Recruit feat for their Leadership versions.
This one I'm pretty satisfied with; though again it nudges the Recruits' possible level up by two and gives them Mythic potential, their potential power isn't likely to 'break' things - especially since the basic rules for Recruits state that only one of them can adventure with you at a time.
People are drawn to your cause, either by your charismatic espousal of a faith, monetary inducement, or stated goals.
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Character level 5th, Recruits feat.
Benefit: You gain followers and a cohort as if you possessed the Leadership feat, adding half your tier (minimum 1) to your Leadership score for both followers and cohort. If you possess a marshal’s order ability and your cohort is within 100 feet, you can include your cohort as an additional ally affected by your order. If you have or gain the Leadership feat, you may have only one cohort, but you gain followers from both this ability and the normal Leadership feat. You do not add your tier to your Leadership score for the standard feat.
Special: Loyalty counts as the Leadership feat for purposes of prerequisites.
I think I like this one as-is too; it saves a feat (per se) but the character loses the possibility of their cohort being Mythic as well.
Through diligent examination, you have discovered the best personnel within your organization, and can place them in key positions.
Prerequisite: Leadership feat or Loyalty Universal Path ability.
Benefit: Through your travels, you have developed a number of reliable followers, officers who can be relied upon to execute your orders. You gain a number of minor cohorts equal to half your character level plus half your mythic tier; these followers must be at least 4 levels below your own, though you gain half your mythic tier (minimum 1) as a bonus to your Leadership score to determine whether they achieve that point.
You must have the Leadership feat or the Loyalty Universal Mythic Path Ability to gain this ability; you may not possess the Recruits feat. As these are primarily leading officers for your followers, only one of the cadre may adventure with you at any one time, as with the Recruits feat. You may adventure with both your Loyalty cohort and one Cadre officer, however.
If a minor cohort dies, you take only a –1 penalty to your Leadership score. You will, however, take a number of weeks equal to your current number of cohorts (including that from Leadership or Loyalty) to attract a replacement.Special: Unless you possess the mythic feat 'Beyond Morality', cadre officers must be within one and a half alignment steps of your character, e.g. if you are Lawful Neutral, they may be Neutral Good or Neutral Evil, but not Chaotic of any sort. If you are Lawful Good, they can be neither Chaotic nor Evil, but may be True Neutral. As with the Recruits feat, you only take a -1 penalty to your Leadership score should you be the cause of a Cadre officer's death.
This one I'm very not-sure about, to be entirely honest. You could have an additional (4-levels-lower) cohort kicking around with you, but again, they aren't Mythic and so are running a risk of some nasty death or another. They also don't have the potential to gain Mythic tiers, and you need Loyalty or Leadership to gain this.
You have drawn a select handful of individuals to your cause.
Prerequisite: May not possess Leadership, Vile Leadership, or Recruits feats, or the Loyalty or Cadre mythic path abilities.
Benefit: Through your travels, you have developed a number of reliable followers, disciples who follow your instructions, teachings, and philosophy. You gain a number of minor cohorts equal to half your character level plus half your mythic tier; these followers must be at least 3 levels below your own, though you gain your mythic tier as a bonus to your Leadership score to determine whether they achieve that point. Your disciples may be mythic individuals as well; their mythic rank cannot exceed 2/3 your own mythic rank (round down).
As these disciples have an interest in learning and spreading your philosophies of life, you can have only one lesser cohort travel with you at a time (though they all gain experience at the same rate, as those not present are assumed to be studying, proslytizing, and growing independently). Whenever you are in a major town or city, you may meet with one or more other disciples, and exchange your current companion for a different member.
The rest of your disciples are busy learning and studying (and accomplishing their own wonders, sometimes in your name), and so those not traveling with you cannot engage in mundane or magical crafting or Profession checks. Lesser cohorts not traveling with you can serve as managers for your holdings if you are using downtime rules (Ultimate Campaign 88); if you possess a stronghold or school of learning, they may even be able to hold positions of influence (Ultimate Campaign).
If a minor cohort dies, you take only a –1 penalty to your Leadership score. You will, however, take a number of weeks equal to your current number of cohorts to attract a replacement.
You may not have the Leadership, Vile Leadership or Recruits feats, or the Loyalty or Cadre mythic path abilities. You may possess the Crusader mythic path ability (which does not grant a cohort, only followers).Special: Unless you possess the mythic feat 'Beyond Morality', disciples must be within one and a half alignment steps of your character, e.g. if you are Lawful Neutral, they may be Neutral Good or Neutral Evil, but not Chaotic of any sort. If you are Lawful Good, they can be neither Chaotic nor Evil, but may be True Neutral.
I think I'm satisfied with this one too, but feel free to poke at it for me.
That is certainly an interesting concept. The Cadre and Disciple are very dependent on the type of adventure being played. So long as it takes place in a single city or revisits where the followers are then your are set. If there is a lot of traveling and not a lot of backtracking then it is a path that will never get taken. Unless the player is only going to have one of them with them, which to have more minions might happen. It would be a really fun one to role-player.
Not sure why the Disciple is three levels lower but the Cadre is four. Power wise the Disciple one is stronger and more appealing to the Cadre path. I would put that one as having tier requirement of tier three and needing the Cadre path ability. So the Disciple is like the upgraded version.
With the leadership feat you get a cohort of your level and that is powerful, nice but powerful. Why did you mention the 18th, 19th, 20th level cohort? I am not sure if that is extra cohorts, which would be insane or if that is the possible level of the cohort, which does not make sense because per the feat they are of your level. I do remember reading one third party mythic leadership feat that gives your cohort mythic tiers, which are not dependent on your tiers, but they are still two levels lower.
The recruits feat seems fine to me.
The wording is odd on the loyalty path. Do you have the recruits cohort and the leadership cohort? Though if the player is going for a cohort then they would just burn the feat to get a better cohort.
Yay, someone replied!!! :D
That is certainly an interesting concept.
Thanks!!
The Cadre and Disciple are very dependent on the type of adventure being played. So long as it takes place in a single city or revisits where the followers are then your are set. If there is a lot of traveling and not a lot of backtracking then it is a path that will never get taken. Unless the player is only going to have one of them with them, which to have more minions might happen. It would be a really fun one to role-player.Cadre and Disciples work virtually identically to the Recruits feat, as they are that feat but transformed into variant sorts of Mythic Path abilities. I admit that Cadre should have the same verbiage that Disciples has (and thank you for noticing, I'll correct that ASAP), but I think you're misunderstanding how they work.
Whenever you are in a major town or city, you may meet with one or more other disciples, and exchange your current companion for a different member.
Going by the Settlements ruleset and definitions, any time you're in a location with more than 2000 people (the benchmark for a Large Town), you can swap out one officer/disciple/recruit for another. Whatever explanation you want for why the new minor cohort is in that location is fine, but the essence of it is that 'the cohort you want to switch to is there, whatever the reason'. If you're playing a very wilderness-intensive campaign, druids and scouts and rangers and wild barbarians, I imagine you might talk to your GM to change 'large town or better' to indicate some other established 'post of unity' - stone circles that the druids' life revolves around, a well-known trading post, or whatever.
Not sure why the Disciple is three levels lower but the Cadre is four. Power wise the Disciple one is stronger and more appealing to the Cadre path. I would put that one as having tier requirement of tier three and needing the Cadre path ability. So the Disciple is like the upgraded version.
Cadre requires Leadership (feat) or Loyalty (Path ability); with Cadre, you already have a full-scale cohort, and bunches of followers. Cadre's minor cohorts are (Level - 4) because you already have Cohort (Level - 2) (and if you have Leadership and Mythic Leadership, possibly Cohort (Level)). They represent the higher-than-standard-training officer corps, and are meant to be leading your followers most of the time. Cadre is functionally a Mythic Path variation of the Recruits feat, one which stacks on top of Leadership and/or Loyalty.
Disciples, however, is exclusive - you CANNOT take any other feat or path ability that grants you cohorts of any type - Leadership, Vile Leadership, Recruits, Loyalty, or Cadre. The only similar feat/path ability you can take is Crusader, and that's because while Crusader grants followers, it doesn't give you a cohort.
With the leadership feat you get a cohort of your level and that is powerful, nice but powerful. Why did you mention the 18th, 19th, 20th level cohort? I am not sure if that is extra cohorts, which would be insane or if that is the possible level of the cohort, which does not make sense because per the feat they are of your level. I do remember reading one third party mythic leadership feat that gives your cohort mythic tiers, which are not dependent on your tiers, but they are still two levels lower.
Standard Leadership rules max your cohort out at 17th level, even if you happen to be 20th and have a Leadership score above 25; HeroLab reflects this, always saying 17th level for your cohort even though the followers can really go through the roof. The 18th-20th level cohorts are specified for exactly that reason - if you have Mythic Leadership, then instead of your cohort being stuck at 17th no matter what, at Leadership score 26/28/30 your cohort's maximum possible level goes all the way up. Remember that you could have a bad Leadership score, meaning the score's cohort level may be LESS than (Level - 2); (Level - 2) is the maximum level your cohort can be with the Leadership feat, not the actual level they are; that's dependent on your Leadership score. Or, with the Mythic Leadership above, the maximum is your Level - but that doesn't make the cohort automatically your level.
You cannot recruit extra cohorts; it doesn't say 'additional', 'extra', or anything, only that 'you may recruit', which is standard verbiage for the Leadership feat.
I'd be interested in seeing that Mythic Leadership feat, but cutting a cohort's limitations when it comes to mythic tiers seems ... very potentially wacky to me.
The wording is odd on the loyalty path. Do you have the recruits cohort and the leadership cohort? Though if the player is going for a cohort then they would just burn the feat to get a better cohort.
In writing this, I noticed that Loyalty itself requires the Recruits feat, which creates a Catch-22 if you're trying to go Loyalty + Cadre, and Cadre should not be permitted to someone with the Recruits feat. I may rewrite this in some manner, either Loyalty or else Cadre, so that either Loyalty doesn't require Recruits, or else becomes an transformation upgrade from Recruits to Cadre with a Path ability use, and which refunds the feat spent on Recruits.
However, you are correct - the intent is identical to what's written in Cadre. The character could adventure with their Loyalty cohort as well as with one of the minor cohorts from the Recruits feat. The idea is that you have established yourself as an excellent instructor and leader, and so not only do people start joining up (you get followers), someone comes to be your lieutenant (the major cohort as from Leadership).
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All right, concept explanation time.
Mythic Leadership is for people who have gained Mythic levels late (lvl 8+), after they've taken Leadership. It's designed to kick both your cohort and your followers up a notch - several notches, actually - at the expense of one feat and one mythic feat. It gives your cohort the capacity for mythic tiers (though doesn't actually give them mythic tiers - that's for the GM to decide), but places a limit on that mythic capacity, so that they remain your PC's support character. (Otherwise you have a PC with all the big feats, and a very focussed follower that the player functionally uses as their actual character in play. That's fine up to a point, but being kept to 2/3 mythic tier can make a big difference.) If you have this, though, you can still pick up the Champion's Crusader path ability (to really expand your follower base) and/or the Cadre path ability (to 'fill out' the upper echelons of your command structure without having a big bunch of mythic followers).
Mythic Recruits is for those who aren't sure if they want a big bunch of followers, but allows them to have a rotating pool of relatively powerful assistants of widely varying capabilities. These too can be mythic, but only at 1/3 your tier, keeping them firmly in the 'assistant' slot. The player can still pick up Loyalty if they want, to gain followers and a cohort closer to their own level, but that cohort will be non-Mythic. The trade-off here is that you're spending a standard and a mythic feat while getting no followers, but at least your minor cohorts (now functionally 'standard' cohorts) are mythic - weakly compared to you, but still.
Once again re-reading Loyalty ... might have kind of screwed up, because it mentions the Leadership feat. On the other hand, you CAN have the Recruits feat, gain the Loyalty path ability, hit 7th level and autoshift Recruits over to Leadership (though you still only have one full Cohort, as it says in Loyalty). You could then pick up Mythic Leadership (giving your Cohort mythic potential as well as moving his maximum level up to your own), and finish up with Cadre to 're-establish' your officer pool. So there you go.
Cadre is somewhat less better than Recruits + Mythic Recruits; those minor cohorts can be {Level - 2) instead of (Level - 4). The trade-off is that if you go the Leadership / Cadre or Recruits / Loyalty and change Recruits into Cadre, you have no mythic cohorts unless you spend another feat (mythic feat) on Mythic Leadership. The alignment part is kind of a drawback, but it's meant to highlight the fact that you're a leader, and these are your commanders, loyal to not only you, but your ideals.
Disciples gives you lesser cohorts of (Level - 3), and they can be mythic to 2/3 your tier, but the tradeoff here is that th-th-that's all, folks. No full cohort, and unless you can get Crusader, no followers at all, ever. You are, however, spending only one Path ability on it. The alignment part is the same sort of drawback as cadre, but is meant to be especially emphasized; you are the master teacher to a small, growing cluster of amazing and potentially mythic individuals, all who follow your teachings with not a heck of a lot of drifting.
Hit me back, ya?
Hehe, I have had many posts that start just the same as your.
I thought so with the leadership thing but I decided to ask anyways. I think it may be a play style issue with the ability to get the recruits at any settlement.
I am running a mythic homebrew game and the mythic stuff is rare so the disciple thing rubs me the wrong way, primarily due to how I am giving the tiers. I love the idea and might implement it future games. But to me the cohorts, if they are with you or not, are difficult to find. The idea that you could trade them out like candy is not appealing, though I still love the concept. I suppose if you were finding people to leave behind in various settlements to spread what every the player philosophy is would be the thing to do but you get a limited amount of these people.
So long as the GM and players are ok with it then that is sound reasoning.
It is not unreasonable that I misinterpreted something. I woke up way to early today and have failed to go back to sleep.
I totally get the alignment restriction thing. That is important. Adn I like that you have them unable to do crafting, which many players would abuse.
This would be freaking great in a campaign where the party has a base of operations. When I run Kingmaker next, assuming the party wants to use the mythic rules again, then I will defiantly have something like this.
I hope I am making sense in my sleep deprived state.
The crafting thing is part of Recruits, actually.
And how Recruits / Cadre / Disciples work is just like a Leadership cohort. You define what the cohort is when you get them, and unless they get killed off (or you REALLY offend them and they leave, which IMO would be even worse) they remain the same. Let me give you an example.
Ludo, a 12th level / 3rd tier LN high hobgoblin* monk, has acquired Disciples; he's a monk, he doesn't get a host of followers, but a few select lower-level and -tier students is perfect. He's a charismatic guy (or whatever), and between 12th level, 3rd tier, charisma, and a few interesting items, he has a Leadership score of 25, with no penalties for deaths, etc.
Disciples gives a number of minor cohorts equal to (Level / 2) + (Tier / 2); 12/2 = 6 + 3/2 = 6 + 2 = 8 minor cohorts. Leadership 25 gives a 17th level cohort; for Disciples, the maximum is (Level - 3), so for Ludo, they're 9th level, and because it's Disciples, they have a mythic potential of 2/3 his tier, or 2. The GM says he can have one cohort at the 2nd mythic tier and 2 at 1st mythic, but the rest must be non-mythic. Ludo decides that these are his minor cohorts:
Cohort #1: Chirruk Keeper, 9th level / 2nd tier LN Minotaur** Monk (Unchained Zen Archer)
Cohort #2: Mashuk Kolobrak, 9th / 1st LN Half-Orc Monk (Unchained, Empty Hand)
Cohort #3: Lina Truesight, 9th / 1st NG Gnome Oracle (Seer)
Cohort #4: Laurena Quick-Hands, 9th / -- Changeling*** Ninja (Unchained, Deep Cover)
Cohort #5: Kol Swotta, 9th / -- NG Human (Norse) Fighter (Tactician)
Cohort #6: Jin Lo, 9th / -- Human (Japanese) Fighter (Weapon Master, Naginata)
So say Lina Truesight is with him on his current adventure. Unfortunately, the long-distance chase they're on is really wearying to the nearly-blind oracle, and they've been ambushed a lot, so when they come to a large town, city, etc. he looks at his list (as shown above) and tells the GM that he wants to switch cohorts, to Chirruk Keeper. The GM agrees, and they run into Chirruk in the street, or he shows up at the inn they're at, because Chirruk (and a couple of the others) knew Ludo was 'headed in this direction' so they hurried along, because they have a message from 'back home'.
Alternate explanations could be that they generally stay 'nearby', but wander on their own, or in small groups with each other; Chirruk and, say, Kol Swotta might travel together frequently, while Jin Lo and Laurena Quick-Hands might be travelling partners, wandering around near but not with the PC, Ludo.
So Ludo sends the message back with Lina, or Kol Swotta is assigned to look after the oracle while she recovers, but either way Chirruk Keeper is with Ludo.
Later, after Ludo has gone up a couple levels, he gains another cohort, and the GM decides that not only are all the cohorts keeping pace (and with Ludo 14th level, are thus now 12th themselves) but they're all at least 1st level mythic. Ludo's player decides to play around with something, and after looking at the new cohort's writeup, laughs and has Ludo's life get saved by the following individual:
Cohort #7: Lastman Standing, Halfling (Aryindic) NG Ninja (Sniper) 7, Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5, Mythic 1st Tier.
Ludo is ICly amazed, Chirruk leaves to go tell the rest of 'the gang' about this new guy, and Ludo adventures with 'Lastman Standing' for a while.
But he doesn't get to casually generate a new cohort every time; he has to select one of those that he's established.
To me, that "the cohorts, if they are with you or not, are difficult to find" seems very strange; these are your trusted, trustworthy, dedicated-to-you best people, even more loyal than normal followers; these are people who will take an arrow for you. Finding them once they're established should be no more difficult than finding your other player characters - easier, in many respects, because your cohorts WANT to be found by you; you're their teacher and leader!!
A base of operations is a good thing, though, I agree there.
* - High hobgoblins are part of my home game, a 20-point race build out of ARG. Fun guys.
** - Krynn/Dragonlance-style minotaurs, also part of my home game.
*** - Eberron-style changelings. Yadda yadda.
I'd probably keep the cohorts a lower level than the PC even if the Mythic Tiers should provide some separation. I like the idea of being able to have a pool of potentially helpful NPCs "back in town" though.
I've always hoped to see something which provides NPCs somewhere between a cohort and a follower to fill dangerous roles like helping a Viking Jarl sail his longship. With 1st and 2nd level followers on board they're likely to be killed by the first Fireball. Maybe some sort of swarm-like template (mob or troop) would be better than making all of those folks higher level, but when you're 17th level and have 4 Mythic tiers too any 1st or 2nd level NPCs who get close to you seem likely to get killed in the crossfire. I wonder if it would really hurt to have followers who were 6-8 levels behind instead of 15-16.
I sometimes take the time to stat up my PC's followers even if I know they probably won't be used during adventures. I just find it interesting to imagine what they might be like.
*casts summon wall of text*
I am running my mythic stuff in a weird way and it is super rare, so that had an affect on how I was reading it. I did manage to get some sleep and can think a little more objectively. Sleep is apparently important. Sod with my more rested mind I will try again.
What I meant by 'the cohorts, if they are with you or not, are difficult to find". Was in resonance to the switching. I get that the pool is a group of people that player has worked hard to gather and they are loyal to you. The role-play that opens up is great. I love it actually.
I think I was thinking that you could trade them out super easy. But it should not be super easy. The player has to work for the stuff that they want and these combinations are rather powerful so it should take some work on their part.
Depending on the campaign is the factor that determines if the cohort pool is easy or difficult to find. In most of the paizo AP's it would be since most of them take place in a centralized location or like the S&S game where you can travel to where you left them by boat. If those are the setting then that works perfectly.
If they are busy studying and being dedicated to a cause then they are staying where they are and can easily be found in the location they were staying at. Wither it is a forest for a ranger or druid. A city for the bard or wizard. But you have to go to them with the wording you have. Which I have no issues with. That is my interpretation of it.
In a game where there is a lot of travel and not a lot of backtracking then this is a less than appealing combination and will require other ways to get in contact with the cohort you want to take with you if you are swapping. I am running that style of game so that is why I mention it. Perfectly fine with this but it is a little more work. The player will have to send a message, either a letter and hope it makes it or use magic to send the message. Then they have to wait for the cohort to show up. And I guess the one being replaces either stays in the settlement the party was in or leaves to go back. That means that there needs to be a lot of free time to wait to have the cohort come to them or to travel backwards.
My party is going to traveling to a few different countries and that is a lot of distance with not a lot of backtracking due to the nature of the story.
I get the concept and I really like it. The wording issues that I first mentioned, and you say you are correcting that fixs most things for me. I really like the idea and will eventually shamelessly steal it.
I do like Devilkiller's idea of the cohort being at most one level behind the player and I second the idea. My reasoning is that the player should be the focus. This can make for a very dangerous combination. Even with the cohort being one level lower. The down side is that the cohort will never reach that capstone. But that really does not matter. The players are what matters. The cohort, in my opinion, are there to supplement a role not fulfilled by the party some how.
In the group that I am running for there are 2 sorcerers, on is a boom mage and the other is illusion heavy. A druid who does a little of everything. A utility wizard. And a melee cleric and a ranged ranger just joined. So they did not have a good front line so they got a cohort who is a magus. The druid picked up a cleric before the last two players joined. The cohort cleric is primarily for out of combat healing and guarding their stuff when they cannot take it into a dungeon with them. There are a lot of horses.
With the mythic stuff the cohort has tiers that the story can justify. The magus was with them from the beginning so he is equal to the party with his tiers. The cohort cleric does not have tiers yet.
For me, no matter what, the cohort does not matter as much as the player. They have their own wants and goals yes, even secrets and plot of their own. And the party is expected to treat them like a member of the group but I do not want the cohort to out shine the player. Which is the main reason that cohorts are levels lower.
The above 'multiple cohort' feats/abilities are intended to exactly mirror the way Recruits manages cohorts. If you want to run those abilities, including Recruits, differently in your campaign, DAA, that's your decision, and more power to you, but please try not to adjudicate these in light of your alternate methodology.
I'd probably keep the cohorts a lower level than the PC even if the Mythic Tiers should provide some separation.
Well, from my very-recent observation in a campaign in which everyone a) started at 7th level, and b) received Leadership for free, a major cohort (from Leadership, the (Level - 2) one) often gets used to fill in what the character(s) are lacking - and not only that, to specialize (often highly) in whatever thing they do, such that they are equal to a PC of their level in that thing, and in several cases well surpass PC ability.
Mythic Leadership is the only feat that enables that one cohort to equal the PC's level (though not tier); it is kind of for that 'final level capstone ability', but part of it is to make it so that the relationship can become less 'superhero / sidekick' and more 'partners'. That someone spends not only a standard feat on Leadership, but also a mythic feat on doing this, means that this specific thing is very, very important to the player. Instead of becoming a whirling buzzsaw of graveyard-filling carnage, they're investing in their player relationships, expanding their role and influence in the game world, that sort of thing.
I'll consider reducing the maximum level to (Level - 1), though.
I like the idea of being able to have a pool of potentially helpful NPCs "back in town" though.
I've always hoped to see something which provides NPCs somewhere between a cohort and a follower to fill dangerous roles like helping a Viking Jarl sail his longship. With 1st and 2nd level followers on board they're likely to be killed by the first Fireball. Maybe some sort of swarm-like template (mob or troop) would be better than making all of those folks higher level, but when you're 17th level and have 4 Mythic tiers too any 1st or 2nd level NPCs who get close to you seem likely to get killed in the crossfire.
Very true. Standard Recruits will do that, and even if you have no Charisma bonuses or anything for Leadership, you'll still have a handful of slightly-above-average people - one 5th, two 4th, three 3rd. Still, in a 17th-level fight ...
I wonder if it would really hurt to have followers who were 6-8 levels behind instead of 15-16.
Well, the issue is mainly that no GM wants to have to run army combats every time the PCs get into a fight. I can easily imagine a version of the Recruits feat that might go something like this ...
Certain of your followers are truly, even fanatically, loyal to you, even above and beyond their loyalty to your cause. If you told them to invade the Abyss, they'd ask you at what level you wanted them to stop.
Prerequisite: Character level 9th.
Benefit: Whether due to your personality, your reputation for success, word of your power, or strength of your faith, a group of dedicated followers (brethren) has coalesced around your banner. You gain a number of brethren equal to your character level, but their maximum level is eight levels below your own. Brethren otherwise follow the rules for determining cohorts' levels.
While they are willing to spread the word about your cause, brethren are personally devoted to you and to each other. Unlike other followers and cohorts, with your GM's permission you may travel with all the brethren you have gathered, and actively engage in adventure (e.g. dungeon crawls, specific missions, and the like) with up to 1/3 of their number. If significant travel is required (such as by ship, caravan, or magical means), the brethren may travel along with the character, and may be allowed to take crew or caravan positions, if using those systems. On wilderness adventures, excess brethren will typically trail the character by no more than two days, though the GM may decide they share the character's camp each night.
You may switch which brethren are accompanying you any time you get the chance for a significant lull, such as making camp for the night or breaking camp in the morning. Brethren cannot be switched if there is a significant chance of combat during the exchange, such as most instances of dungeon-delving, or a deep-penetration raid into enemy territory.
The rest of the brethren remain at a distance, but follow you comparatively closely; they are your banner-men, and those not travelling with you cannot engage in mundane or magical crafting or Profession checks, nor can they serve as managers for your holdings if you are using downtime rules. If you possess a stronghold or school of learning, they may hold positions of influence only when you yourself are in residence at the stronghold or school; they are otherwise 'out in the field' near you, ready to come to your call.
If the GM allows, during major engagements (e.g. sieges, planned battles, and other warlike events) you may put all of your brethren to use, whether as your personal guard, headquarters group, unit commanders, or elite strike-force. You may form your brethren up into an army commanded by yourself; while the army size will be Fine or Diminuative, after a certain point it may yet be powerful indeed. While brethren do not need to all be the same class or archetype as the character or each other, it may be thematically appropriate for the majority to do so, especially if the character is considered a leader of some group or another.
If a member of the brethren dies, you do not take a penalty to your Leadership score. You will, however, take a number of days equal to twice your current number of brethren to attract a replacement. As a special note, since brethren may need to be replaced 'in numbers', the time required must occur sequentially, not simultaneously. For example, if you need to replace two brethren, you have to replace the first one, and then the time required to attract the next is based off the new number of brethren you possess.
You may gain Brethren on its own, or along with any other leadership-type ability.
I ... kind of like that. :D
I sometimes take the time to stat up my PC's followers even if I know they probably won't be used during adventures. I just find it interesting to imagine what they might be like.
Oh, I've done that - especially for the most significant twenty or thirty members. I'll also do a 'general write-up' for the lower-level folk, what 'an X group of followers' would be like, statwise.
I had gotten some sleep so I am able to look a little more objectively. The only reason I mentioned the different style is to look at it from more than one point of view while we chat about this.
As to the level cap on the leadership thing. I personally like the one level lower but I can see the benefit of having someone of there level. Those level differences can make a really be difference in the right fight.
Personally I only allow the leadership if it is for character and stroy reason. I hate the powergaming 'whirling buzzsaw of graveyard-filling carnage'. That is just not fun for me.
I totally stat or do a partial write up way more npc's than I need to. It really helps to get into their heads. Also it is fun.