unlimited limited wish?


Rules Questions


If i were to create an intelligent item, spending 182.000 gp on giving it the ability to cast a 7th level spell at will, and spending 150.000 gp extra for the material costs of making that spell limited wish ( i read on another thread about intelligent items that i would have to add the cost of the material components x100, i dont actually know what that is based on), would i have an item which could effectively make any person who matches the alignment a 13th level caster with unlimited castings and spells of level 4 and lower? I know it would be a special purpose power, and i know it has other requirements. But it seems unreasonable to have to spend 'only' 330.000+ gp on an item which would allow virtually anyone who meets the requirements to become a very powerful caster. Am i reading this wrong? or are intelligent items simply not designed for being crafted by a PC?

The history behind it is that I was reading into the souleater, and in the soul trade section they spoke of using souls to make intelligent items. So i wanted to make my bonded item intelligent (until i realised that was a bad idea, as i'd lose the ability to further enchant it). But intelligent items seem like powerful and interesting things to have and make.

Dark Archive

Keep in mind, it's an intelligent magic item. That means it's got it's own goals, it's own motivations, and... Scarily enough, it can potentially take over the character. Especially if it's got a high ego. Which it sounds like this hypothetical magic item would. The item will argue with it's wielder. It will try to force the wielder to do what the item wants. And the item can decide to say "no". Especially if the wish wouldn't further the item's goals.

Also remember, that intelligent items have their guiding intelligence controlled by the GM. When you make it, you decide the item's alignment. You also decide what it's personality and goals are. An intelligent sword with an intense hatred of orcs and who's goal is the complete eradication of all orc kind for example would never condone using it's powers to help a 'filthy' half orc. Even if said half orc is the player character's best friend and adventuring companion.

Or if it's goal is to end the blight of undeath, it's unlikely to be too cooperative when you're not dealing with the undead. Especially if you consistently face things other then undead. Maybe the item wants to topple an evil country. If the character using it isn't actively trying to thwart that country's activities, the item may take offense.

And as I mentioned, intelligent magic items have the potential to take over if they can overwhelm the will of their user. A fact I think many bladebound magus players forget. I know of one player who seemed to have forgotten this fact since they treated their black blade as if it's any other magic weapon.


At-will command word 7th level spell-in-a-can: 7*13*1800=163,800.
Material component of 1,500 on said spell-in-a-can: 1500*100=150,000

At-will Limited Wish spell-in-a-can: 313,800.

So... no, it has nothing to do with intelligent items. It has everything to do with the item creation rules. The intelligent item special purpose powers are even more expensive than the basic rules. Always work out custom magic items with the GM. If you are the GM, don't let players make whatever they want (sword of True Strike).

Dark Archive

Bob Bob Bob, the OP specifically said he wants to make an intelligent item with at-will limited wish. Thus the problems inherent with intelligent items come into play.

As a GM, I'd be really hesitant to allow a player to make an at-will limited wish or wish item. It'd be too easily exploitable. Now, a limited use one that can't be recharged, I'd be more likely to allow. But not by much. Things like that I tend to make extremely rare, quite often a lost crafting art. Thus if players get their hands on a ring of 3 wishes or 3 limited wishes, they seriously consider when they use those wishes, and what they're used for.

Then again, I tend not to have Wish and Limited Wish floating around for the players to find. Because again, unlimited use of those spells can be extremely unbalancing. Not to mention strip the fun from the campaign as the players constantly try to outwit me, and I try to reign them in using their wish wording.


The item would have an ego of 16, which is high but not dominant to a prepared decent level casters (will save with dc 16).
The reason I'm asking about the intelligent items (even though I now know it is simply item creation rules) is beacause there dont seem to be any requirements to being able to make an intelligent item, such as actually knowing the spell you attempt to give to the item. (I recall reading somewhere you need to have an example of the spell, active, prepared or a result of it, but i can't verify that) Whats to stop a 3rd level sorcerer from going to the king and asking: 'If you got the gold I can give you the power most people dream of!'


The OP doesn't say they want to do it, they frame the whole thing as a hypothetical. Then they go on to say:

ojamojallo wrote:
But it seems unreasonable to have to spend 'only' 330.000+ gp on an item which would allow virtually anyone who meets the requirements to become a very powerful caster. Am i reading this wrong? or are intelligent items simply not designed for being crafted by a PC?

Their complaint is the price is too cheap. The spell-in-a-can, not attached to an intelligent item, is even cheaper, thus the problem has nothing to do with intelligent items.

By the item creation rules you can bypass requirements for an item (except the item creation feat and the spells for potions/scrolls/wands/staves only) by adding +5 to the DC for each requirement not met. The level 1 wizard making an unlimited command word Limited Wish item needs to make a DC 23 (5+13(CL)+5(no limited wish)) Spellcraft check to make it. Well, and have three literal tons of gold. So no, nothing is stopping this except the GM saying no, which they can do to this as easily as they can to the intelligent item doing the same.

Additionally, the first rule of item creation is "Start with similar items and work from there". More specifically:

Magic Item Creation wrote:
The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.
In addition to that:
Magic Item Creation wrote:
Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point.

Because I'm pretty sure at-will Limited Wish is worth more than the formula arrives at.

Dark Archive

You don't need to know the spell you're using to make a magic item. Actually, beyond "do you have the creation feet" and "are you a spellcaster or otherwise allowed to make magic items" you don't need to meet any of the requirements. Thing is, the creation DC goes up by 5 for each requirement you don't meet. And an at-will limited wish item's likely to have a fairly high creation DC to begin with.

That 3rd level sorcerer who tries to make it, doesn't meet how many requirements to make the item? youch! That's gonna be a crafting DC in the mid 20's, at least. Possibly in the 30's. What's the sorcerer's Spellcraft ranks sitting at? Cause they may not even be able to make it. And even if they can, it may be just barely. So when they inevitably botch the creation check by more then 5... Say hello to your new cursed item.

Such reckless magic crafters often don't live long enough to make a second mistake. They get eaten by their attempt to make a bag of holding. Or drowned by the attempt to make a bowl of scrying. Or... Well, you get the idea. And the scary thing about magic crafting? Cursed items don't identify as cursed. They identify as if they weren't cursed. Scarabs of Death identify as other types of amulets. Maybe it identified as an amulet of natural armor. Then when you pick it up, the scarab comes to life within seconds and burrows into your heart. A cloak of verman might identify as a cloak of invisibility. And you don't realize it until you try to use the cloak, and have rats trying to eat you alive. Rings of cannibalism identify as rings of sustenance. Even appear to work as such at first.

Frightening isn't it? I know from experience many GM's I've had forget this little fact. It's a well known thing that you should never use a magic item till you have it identified. Yet this doesn't really protect you from cursed items if your GM remembers that cursed items don't identify as such.

As such, the GM doesn't even have to tell you the crafting DC. And they probably shouldn't. You make your roll, they compare it to the creation DC. And if you failed badly enough to make a cursed item... you may not know until the curse hits you.


I dunno, this kind of falls into the whole "Hey, howabout I make an unlimited use healing item!" type of thing were mechanically it looks possible, but really in practice ends up (and should end up) being way more expensive if not nigh impossible on "artifact scale" difficulty.

There isn't really a clean way I see of differentiating between the utility of a particular spell of the same level. Or the consideration of "While Spell A is only useful in combat, unless you WANT to cast destruction for some reason in non-combat situations, Spell B is useful in both combat and non-combat and by sheer distribution of time, you're more likely to face 95% non-combat time in a day than combat time. So a same level spell that is useful ALL of the time, versus one that's only useful part of the time, etc etc

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