Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I know I'm late to the party, but I couldn't find a clear answer. A few months ago, the ARG had an errata that said (among others) an Aasimar Bard's favored class bonus went from +1/2 per level to +1/6 per level. That's a pretty big change for my Bard, which hinges on that specific thing. I couldn't find anything about a possible rebuild, but I did find this post dating from a year ago, closing a similar loophole, and John Compton saying you could rebuild that. I'm not saying I'm entitled to a rebuild, just that my situation's similar to what happened there.
For reference: The character I'm talking about is a Street Performer Bard, with all the FCBs in Disappearing Act, to increase the DC. That DC just plummeted, and it was a terrible one-trick pony anyway, so I'd like to revert to a regular Bard, keeping everything else intact. The only change is that I lose my archetype and my HP will go up. I don't have enough Prestige to retrain, as it's a boatload of abilities I have to switch out, and I'll never be able to switch otherwise. Hell, I'd even be happy to merely switch the FCB to HP instead.
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From what I recall, you were allowed to retrain your FCB, but nothing else. There were talks of allowing other things, but that was during GenCon and before Tonya came on board, so those ideas never solidified into anything.
My poor Life Oracle has gone through three different errata now, and at level 11 I'll just be happy to retire after playing a Module and be done with it.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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The character I'm talking about is a Street Performer Bard, with all the FCBs in Disappearing Act, to increase the DC. That DC just plummeted, and it was a terrible one-trick pony anyway, so I'd like to revert to a regular Bard, keeping everything else intact. The only change is that I lose my archetype and my HP will go up.
Plummeted? The max it would have done for normal PFS is dropped the DC 2 at 12th lvl. It was 1/2 a level per FCB and the DC is 1/2 lvl. So at 12th having put it in it would have increased your level for DA 6 lvls which would be +3 DC. With the change you'd increase the lvl 2 over 12 lvls of FCB and would increase the DC +1. So you're only looking at a -2 DC at the most in normal PFS play.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Okay, maybe "plummeted" wasn't the right word, but it certainly decreased quite a bit, especially considering it was pretty much the only trick I had. I also used it to get faster access to get the "upgrades" (to make an extra person disappear). Now that my DC dropped by 2 or so, I'd rather switch to the regular Bard and use Inspire Courage.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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You can use the retraining rules to make changes to your character at any time between scenarios - costs are listed in the Guide.
I know. I have to retrain 5 class features, each of which costs 5 PP to retrain. I'm only at 15 right now. If I retrain (when I'm level 7 or so) I won't have anything left to pay for any negative levels or Raise Deads. :(
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Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.
And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.
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Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.
Out of the issues people had with the ARG errata, this one is a non-issue. Just change the age, it might mess up their backstory a little, but them's the breaks. My aasimar paladin 14 got a whole lot younger after the ARG errata.
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Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.
Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
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| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.
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Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
So investigators should get everything an alchemist gets or they are nto worth playing?
I am on a different opinion I hate classes that overshadow classes complete(witch by shaman, pre unchained rogue by countless others)
Classes need more than archtypes to make them different.
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I just think its odd that the only reason why they can't is because the Rules team said so, there is no real in-book reason for it as their extracts otherwise operate the exact same as an Alchemist except that Alchemists can use wands and Investigators can't.
It is a feature one class has the other does not.
I could make up reasons for you saying that alchemist focus on the magic more of things, and investigators focus more on the science of extracts.
When you start handing out class features that are so broad the rules bloat hurt the original class that has that.
Now considering that investigators get almost everything alchemists get plus a few extras they need dividers for the class.
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I still enjoy my Investigator immensely. He just played in a Tier 1-2 and got a 39 Diplomacy. You should try one out. My annoyance has been tempered somewhat by playing him. Maybe yours will be, too.
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Pragmatic Activator is a nice solution to the wand issue. I had been playing my Investigator under the assumption that he could use wands before the clarification. But I'd taken the trait anyway and been maxing UMD for scroll use and for wands not on the alchemist list (a wand of Magic Missile was his ranged weapon for several levels. Thinking of stepping up to Scorching Ray now). You can pretty quickly get to the point you're succeeding more than you fail, and it's not too hard to get to an auto success. And you've always got Inspiration if success is critical and you fall just short on the roll.
I've had a lot of fun playing my Investigator. Wands are a very small loss for the class.
I do wish the ruling hadn't been made, as I think it takes Pathfinder farther away from SKR's belief that similar abilities should behave the same way, but I think that ship sailed with his exit from Paizo. Regardless, it certainly shouldn't be a reason to abandon the class altogether.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
In practice it's been a bit annoying but not a severe setback. Most of the time you can afford to spend in combat is taken up by drinking extracts anyway.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
So investigators should get everything an alchemist gets or they are nto worth playing?
I am on a different opinion I hate classes that overshadow classes complete(witch by shaman, pre unchained rogue by countless others)
Classes need more than archtypes to make them different.
If you think investigators overshadow alchemists... HOW?!
My investigator is pretty sweet, but the alchemist class is terrifying.
As for chained rogue: I think of it as Paizo saying "you're right, we messed up the original, and this is how we fixed it".
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Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.Usually Paizo is good about allowing players to salvage their characters after a nerf destroys them. In this case, however, there's been no leniency given for rebuilds.And I never found out what I'm supposed to do with my suddenly almost-venerable tiefling.Gah. That was so annoying. My Aasimar and Tiefling died of old age, while my Ifrit, Oread, Sylph and Undine attended the funerals (and made lunch plans for 60 years in the future).
Just like Investigators losing the ability to use wands, this change made no sense to me.
So investigators should get everything an alchemist gets or they are nto worth playing?
I am on a different opinion I hate classes that overshadow classes complete(witch by shaman, pre unchained rogue by countless others)
Classes need more than archtypes to make them different.
If you think investigators overshadow alchemists... HOW?!
My investigator is pretty sweet, but the alchemist class is terrifying.
As for chained rogue: I think of it as Paizo saying "you're right, we messed up the original, and this is how we fixed it".
I did not say they were overshaowed because there are still reasons to be alchemist but when people start asking for class features of another class in addition to. It starts to make them shadowed when paizo listens to that.
Chained rogue was an easy example of that being done. Now what about the witch, can they unchain that?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Investigators not being able to use wands is the only reason why I don't play that class, I'd love to try it out and it seems like an awesome class for PFS but the silly ruling about how they can't use wands even though Alchemists can and all that its just silly.
So investigators should get everything an alchemist gets or they are nto worth playing?
I am on a different opinion I hate classes that overshadow classes complete(witch by shaman, pre unchained rogue by countless others)
Classes need more than archtypes to make them different.
If you think investigators overshadow alchemists... HOW?!
My investigator is pretty sweet, but the alchemist class is terrifying.
As for chained rogue: I think of it as Paizo saying "you're right, we messed up the original, and this is how we fixed it".
I did not say they were overshaowed because there are still reasons to be alchemist but when people start asking for class features of another class in addition to. It starts to make them shadowed when paizo listens to that.
Chained rogue was an easy example of that being done. Now what about the witch, can they unchain that?
"Using Wands" is hardly a unique alchemist class feature. Pretty much every spellcaster gets it.
Investigators use the same kind of alchemical magic as alchemists, with both the same spell list and way of using it. And there's been no explanation given why investigators are different, just that "the author thought so". No arguments of balance or flavor or whatever.
Wand use isn't a signature alchemist ability; those would be bombs, mutagen and discoveries. Investigators don't get bombs and get only a small set of discoveries; and while they can get mutagen, they can't get most of the mutagen-enhancing discoveries like Feral Mutagen.
Investigators aren't close to overshadowing the alchemist on the things that define alchemists. So I find your argument there unconvincing.
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Regarding the rogue: I don't understand your argument. You started by saying you don't like unchained rogues because they overshadowed classic rogues. I countered the unchained rogue should be viewed as a fix. I don't understand your answer to that.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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This has gotten very off topic. It seems like we're still waiting on whether there will be a rebuild/grandfathering option to be decided on by Tonya. The real question is whether or not Tonya is aware that this had been put off pending her taking on her coordinator role, or not. Personally, I've not played my bard since the day I found out about the errata, as we were told the decision would be put off until a later date. It would, admittedly, be nice to have confirmation as to whether a later date was still forthcoming, or if the issue has just been moved on from completely.
This was my impression as well. As I recall the errata happened just before Gencon and John Compton basically said "let's sort that out after the Con" and then that never happened.
There was no definite "no you can't", just a "not until we look into it later on".