Help with a Brawler / unchained monk


Advice


So I was looking into creating a character for a backup to what im playing now. Im thinking unarmed Brawler (mutagenic Mauler) with a 2-3 lvl dip into unchained monk (Master of Many Styles). A little background on the campaign, we are starting lvl 3 but plan to go to lvl 20; its a 20 point buy; Race is oread (although its been altered by the gm to boost it to 12 RP, ill post altered version below); Unarmed, but not opposed to using shuriken or something for ranged; 2 traits; since i dont know necessarily what level the character will come in gear isnt a huge concern, though a list of suggested stuff would be nice.

Oreads

Type
Outsider (native) 3 RP
Size
Medium 0 RP
Base Speed
Slow –1 RP
Ability Score Modifiers
Standard (+2 Str, +2 Wis, –2 Dex) 0 RP
Languages
Standard 0 RP
Racial Traits
Defense Racial Traits
Energy resistance (acid) 1 RP
Stability 1 RP
Natural Armor 2 RP
Feat and Skill Racial Traits
Stonecunning 1 RP
Offense Racial Traits
Gate Crasher 2 RP
Magical Racial Traits
Ferrous Growth 2 RP
Stonesinger 1 RP
Senses Racial Traits
Darkvision 60 ft. — RP

Total 12 RP


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I was under the impression that unchained monks couldn't use archetypes? If so then no master of many styles.


Unchained Monk can't use archetypes because of a specific rule saying something along the lines of "thou shalt not wear mixed clothes and have unchained monk with archetypes"

However, Unchained Monk effectively gets the Qinggong Monk archetype for free. In addition, some archetypes are effectively compatible if and only if you ignore that rule of no mixing Unchained and archetypes. Hamatulatsu Master and Sensei would be compatible if not for the "no archetypes" rule.

If you want to play an archetyped Unchained Monk, ask your GM very nicely and don't be surprised if they say no.

As a Monk, you don't want to play things with a dexterity penalty. It'll hurt more than just your initiative.

Brawler/Monk is more than a bit redundant. I'd recommend sticking to one or the other, not both.


My GM has made a ruling that as long as the archetype doesnt effect any of the majorly changed thing of the unchained class (in the case of monk, any of the things that were moved to ki pool for example) then i could use them. So back to being on topic, anyone able to help make a build?


CaptainJerBear wrote:
My GM has made a ruling that as long as the archetype doesnt effect any of the majorly changed thing of the unchained class (in the case of monk, any of the things that were moved to ki pool for example) then i could use them. So back to being on topic, anyone able to help make a build?

That's awesome.

Ok, so first thing first- don't dip.

Monk and Brawler abilities have so much overlap and non-stackingness that you'd be pretty disappointed multiclassing in the short and long run. Mutagenic Mauler benefits much more from you staying in one class. Same for Monk style strikes and ki pool. Armor doesn't stack, and Brawler's Flurry is pretty much just a feat. Bonus speed from Monk and Mutagenic Mauler don't stack.

A Brawler/Barbarian might be a bit sturdier than a Brawler/Monk. Barbarian features, while they do scale better as a pure Barbarian, are still good if you stop halfway. Monk level-dependent features (ki pool especially) go stale quickly. It's still possible to be a monk in armor, but by doing so, you negate a fair portion of your monk advantages.

If you absolutely need to go Brawler/Monk, sticking with a scaling mutagen is a good choice. Ask your GM if Brawler levels count as and stack with Monk levels for Unarmed Strike.


Ill ask about the brawler and monk stacking, with the history ive had with this GM i would think he would stack them.

Am i missing something on the mutagenic front? 18 levels seems to be all you need to get all the juice out of mauler since you gain the last from it at lvl 18. Unchained monk master of many styles would grant me pummeling charge in a 2 level dip, evasion, Wis to AC (since mauler loses brawler ac), and stunning fist while never reaching Ki Pool for it to matter. Im not sure if im missing something or not is why i am asking


Both Brawlers and Monks get scaling AC bonuses. The main difference is that Brawlers wear light armor, and Monks use WIS instead of armor. Multiclassing into Monk will not give you back your scaling AC bonus, it will only give you the option of WIS to AC instead of armor. Your AC will not be any better than that of a single-classed Mutagenic Mauler, and will be comparable to that of a rogue.

Dipping two levels into Master of Many Styles might only allow you to get Pummeling Style for free. I'll need to look more into this, but I'm pretty sure they changed it so you need to meet prereqs for feats after the initial style feat.


if you find it let me know. its not something i have seen and if it is a rule ill be scrapping how this character works and creating a similar but new idea

Edit- Nevermind, i see that they made it where only the initial feat is considered a style feat thus only it can count for many styles ability

Sovereign Court

CaptainJerBear wrote:
My GM has made a ruling that as long as the archetype doesnt effect any of the majorly changed thing of the unchained class (in the case of monk, any of the things that were moved to ki pool for example) then i could use them. So back to being on topic, anyone able to help make a build?

Your GM is insane - combining MoMS with unchained monk is incredibly OP. What MoMS is giving up normally is the monk's pseudo-full BAB which is a lot - but unchained has ACUTAL full BAB, so for an unchained MoMS they're giving up much much less - and he gains additional bonuses to hit (normally to give him his own pseudo-full BAB - for u-monk would stack with his actual full-BAB).


ok so to bring this back up, changed some things. Race is now Suli because of fluff reasons, and looking at a brawler basic instead of mutagenic. Basically looking for 20 point buy assistance, feats to take, and recommended traits. Still going full unarmed, but the character will be a kicker instead of a puncher as he wants to protect his hands unless he has to use them.


Why not just be a Monk of Many Styles Unchained Monk? You can rebuild old Flurry of Blows using the TWF chain. If you single class, you'll get all the awesome things meant for a 3/4 BAB class on a full BAB class. You'll effectively be a 5/4 BAB class.


i was going to go with full brawler like you previously suggested, but if you think the monk is the better path i can do that also


CaptainJerBear wrote:
i was going to go with full brawler like you previously suggested, but if you think the monk is the better path i can do that also

Oh. Full brawler is good, but Monk of Many Styles Unchained Monk is awesome. Monk of Many Styles had some hit chance bonuses that turned a 3/4 BAB class into an effectively full BAB class. Charon's Little Helper's reaction is pretty on-point: You'd be getting a 5/4 BAB class if you got the archetype.

Granted, if you like brawler, don't let anybody stop you. Just don't cross the beams.


like i said, im more than willing to go full monk. Just need advice on build options and all. its a 20 point buy (cant go lower then an 8 on any stat), and what feats and all i should aim for.


Probably STR>WIS>DEX>CON>INT>CHA for stats. Many Monk of Many Styles abilities scale on WIS.

Is the limit on not going lower than 8 before or after racials?

From Core:

Human (+Any)
Half-Orc (+Any)
Half-Elf (+Any)
Dwarf (+WIS, +CON, -CHA)

Out of Core:

Oread (the old version, with +STR, +WIS, -CHA)
Hobgoblin (+DEX, +CON)
Garuda-Blooded Aasimar (+DEX, +WIS)
Tiefling
-Demodand Spawn (+CON, +WIS, -INT)
-Devil Spawn (+CON, +WIS, -CHA)
-Oni Spawn (+STR, +WIS, -CHA)
-Qlippoth Spawn (+STR, +WIS, -INT)
Merfolk (+DEX, +CHA, +CON)
Duergar (+WIS, +CON, --CHA)


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after racials. It might be easier to link a copy of his available races then listing them.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qXJapHCP8zrqN5xF7PtoyWJ4iQ-SBRLJ3gH3K8G _a6Y/edit


Can you list them out, or at least look through the ones I listed and say which ones are available? I can't seem to access that page.


Human(+any)
Catfolk (+dex, +cha, -wis)
Dhampir (+dex,+cha, -con)
Dwarf (+con, +wis, -cha)
Elf (+dex,+int,-con)
gnome (-str, +con, +cha)
Gripplis (-str,+wis, +dex)
Half elf (+any)
Half Orc (+any)
Halfling (-str,+dex,+cha)
Ifrit (+dex,-wis,+cha)
Kitsune (+dex, +cha,-str)
Nagaji (+str, +cha, -int)
Oread (+str, -dex, +wis) (I am asking about the original stats)
Ratfolk (-str,+dex,+int)
Samsarans (+int,-con,+wis)
Suli (+str,-int,+cha)
Sylphs (+dex,-con, +cha)
Tengu (+dex, -con, +wis)
Undine (-str,+dex,+wis)
Vanara (+dex, +wis, -cha)


For a melee monk, STR>WIS>DEX>CON>INT>CHA. Ideally, you want a STR bonus on a frontline martial class. If not, try to get some combination of WIS bonus, DEX bonus, natural armor, and maybe CON bonus, in that order. INT and CHA penalties are acceptable penalties, a CON penalty is a bad thing, a WIS or DEX penalty is a very bad penalty, and a STR penalty is a no-go. Granted, this is advice that will make you better at smashing stuff, not necessarily better at being an interesting character.

If you can pick up a Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists, you'll be less MAD and could go with a WIS>DEX>CON>STR>INT>CHA. Note that you'll need at least 13 STR to pick up Power Attack, and that you won't be able to benefit from the Dragon Style feat chain if you dump strength, which gives you 1.5x strength on punches instead of 1x strength.

For a Brawler, STR>DEX>CON>WIS>INT>CHA. Strength is again key, as it determines your ability to hit. A good DEX bonus will keep your initiative high and keep your light armor AC up. This is especially true if you're taking the Mutagenic Mauler archetype, which trades away your extra AC bonus. CON is always useful for frontline fighter-types. Brawlers don't need WIS to function, but both Unchained Monks and Brawlers have weak will saves, so you should boost it anyways.

For your first level feat, Power Attack. Unless you have a specific build in mind, Power Attack will be your bread and butter, especially if you're playing an effectively 5/4 BAB class.


Think im gonna stick with Suli.

How about these stats:
Str- 17
Dex- 15
Con- 13
Int- 10
Wis- 14
Cha- 9

these are after racial adjustments.


CaptainJerBear wrote:

Think im gonna stick with Suli.

How about these stats:
Str- 17
Dex- 15
Con- 13
Int- 10
Wis- 14
Cha- 9

these are after racial adjustments.

Suli has the most amazing Monk favored class bonus. But if anything, don't hesitate to drop CHA or INT a bit lower to push any of your other stats higher.


so besides power attack, which feats would you recommend? also, instead of taking power attack early, would taking quingong ki power at lvl 4 and then getting power attack be a good idea and clear up a feat slot since the character wont be lvl 1 to start


CaptainJerBear wrote:
so besides power attack, which feats would you recommend? also, instead of taking power attack early, would taking quingong ki power at lvl 4 and then getting power attack be a good idea and clear up a feat slot since the character wont be lvl 1 to start

No, don't touch that ki power. When someone offers you a movie that you buy once, and someone else offers you a pay-per-view movie that you have to buy at the same price, then pay each time you want to view it, which one are you going to choose? Having to pay Ki to use Power Attack is a waste of a ki power. Power Attack lets you function without ki.

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