Rules clarification: Playing multiple powers of a single card on one check

[21PunSalute]

The Swallowtail Bracers card has two powers - "Reveal this card to add 1 to your non-combat check." and "When a character at your location plays a boon that has the Desna trait on a check, recharge this card to add 1 die to that check."

Question that came up during our game: Since the bracers have the Desna trait, can you use the first power on your non-combat check, then have that trigger the second power and recharge the bracers to also get another die?

Possibly-relevant quotes from the WotR rulebook:

"When a card has multiple powers, you must choose one of them ... If a power says it may be used when something happens, you may use it every time that happens. Otherwise, a specific card's power may only be used once per check or step." (page 9)

"Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step" of an encounter. (page 10)

"Remember that each player may not play more than 1 card of each type or use any 1 power more than once during each check, other than cards that can be used each time something particular happens." (page 12)

Page 12 sounds like it means that the "when" power on the bracers can be triggered by the "reveal this card" power ... is that accurate?

Even if you can use both powers of the bracers on the same check, is there an official ruling on whether playing the same card twice, using different powers, counts as playing two cards of the same type (meaning it's forbidden unless one of the powers is a "when" ability)? For instance, if a card said "Reveal this card to add 1 to your Strength check" and "Discard this card to add 1 to your combat check", could you reveal and then discard it to add 2 to your combat Strength check? I don't know of any card that could actually be used this way; just curious.

[Frencois]

Please hold.

... Man I just wanted to say that before Vic :-)

[skizzerz]

The relevant rule is "Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step."

You already played an Item on the check by playing the Bracers initially, you cannot play another Item on the check (recall that Cards Don't Have Memories so even though it's actually the same Item card, it counts as playing 2 Items if you play it twice). The "When" clause triggering multiple times during a step of an encounter really only applies to powers on Character or Story cards (Locations, Scenarios, etc.) as those are not restricted to 1-per-step unlike boons/banes.

[Theryon Stormrune]

skizzerz has the relevant rule.

Since you played the bracers for the Reveal on the check, you can play it again for the recharge ability since you played an Item type card already.

The only times you can play the same type of card more than once is if the card specifically states you can like the Headband of Alluring Charisma - "Reveal this card to add 1 to your Charisma check. You may play another item on this check."

[Zenarius]

Yup.. Can't be played twice... We had that question in group earlier.

[Theryon Stormrune]

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

Since you played the bracers for the Reveal on the check, you can't play it again for the recharge ability since you played an Item type card already.

Holy typo, Batman

oops!

[21PunSalute]

Yes, but daggers also don't say anything about playing "another" or "an additional" anything. For example, Spirit Blade says "When playing another weapon or spell, you may discard this card to add 1d4+1 and the Force trait to your combat check." In light of the "no more than one card of each type" rule, there are only two things I can think of that might allow this power to be used after playing another weapon:

1. The rule that cards can override the rules (which I'm pretty sure doesn't apply here because "can't" and "never" override "may").
2. The rule "If a power says it may be used when something happens, you may use it every time that happens." (and the reminder on page 12 that "cards that can be used each time something particular happens" are excluded from the one-per-check limit)

Don't both of these rules apply just as much to the Swallowtail Bracers as to the various daggers?

[Andrew L Klein]

It's #1 -- When a card explicitly states an exception to the rules, the card wins.

The dagger specifically says you play it when playing another weapon, and Spirit Blade specifically says to use it when playing a weapon or spell.

The bracers do not specifically tell you that they can be played if you've already an item, so you cannot because you already played them by using the first power. You would be playing it based on other players using Desna-trait cards.

[elcoderdude]

With regard to the daggers, the rule that cards override rules does apply. The relevant rule (cited by skizzerz above) doesn't use "never". "Cannot" only overrules "may" when two cards are in conflict -- not when the rules and a card are in conflict.

So, a dagger explicitly says it can be played with another weapon. Nothing on the Swallowtail Bracers indicates it is overriding the rule that only one item can be played on a check.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[SlappyWhite]

Lance says reveal a mount to get a bonus d8 and count as 1 handed, if you reveal donhan you can not then return him to your deck for the d8+scenario bonus, however you could reveal say a warhorse but that would then count as your ally for the check.

reveal display recharge discard bury banish all count as playing the card no mater what the trigger.

Some armors are similar to the dagger, so you can play a helm and an armor, because the helm says you can play another armor.

[Hawkmoon269]

It doesn't count as playing the card if you don't activate a power on the card.

WotR Rulebook p9 emphasis mine wrote:

Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.

I'm not 100% sure of the powers on the Lance and what not, but revealing Warhorse for the Lance's power doesn't count as playing the Warhorse, just the lance. So you can still play an ally at that point. And since you just had to reveal it, the Warhorse is right back in your hand.

[SlappyWhite]

oh nice, so you can reveal donahan then top deck him.